Chicago Fanatics Message Board :: View topic - Mike Pence and the rest of the Indiana legislature

Chus wrote:

Seacrest wrote:

Chus wrote:

This article explains how Indiana's law is different than other states.

http://thinkprogress.org/lgbt/2015/03/3 ... eedom-law/

What does Kentucky's law actually state Chus? It was referenced without citation in the article.

The article explained the difference.

Quote:

Every other Religious Freedom Restoration Act applies to disputes between a person or entity and a government. Indiana’s is the only law that explicitly applies to disputes between private citizens.* This means it could be used as a cudgel by corporations to justify discrimination against individuals that might otherwise be protected under law. Indiana trial lawyer Matt Anderson, discussing this difference, writes that [b]the Indiana law is “more broadly written than its federal and state predecessors” and opens up “the path of least resistance among its species to have a court adjudicate it in a manner that could ultimately be used to discriminate…”[/b]

I posted a few articles earlier highlighting the differences.

Darkside wrote:

Seacrest wrote:

That's not what the caterer is saying. And you know that.

Directly asked, since you've been avoiding me in this thread...

Would Jesus refuse to break bread with a homosexual?

No for me.

pittmike wrote:

Darkside wrote:

Seacrest wrote:

That's not what the caterer is saying. And you know that.

Directly asked, since you've been avoiding me in this thread...

Would Jesus refuse to break bread with a homosexual?

No for me.

You are wrong.

Darkside wrote:

I'm of the opinion that people that are truly religious, truly christian, would abhor this law as it's using religion to justify bigotry.

What better way to reach out to others than to serve them...true Christians would acknowledge that all sin and fall short of the glory of God.

I am wrong that no Jesus would not refuse to break bread?

Darkside wrote:

Harvard Dan wrote:

Not saying I hold this position...but I suppose the argument that while those are all in sins, homosexuality would be considered being in a state of sin that is not seeking repentance while the others may want to stop etc...again not saying I hold that belief. But yes, I could refuse business to a liar, a divorcee (unless allowed under the Moses provision), a Catholic who eats meat on Friday. It becomes a slippery slope. While I sympathize with the business person who doesn't want to perform a service against their belief system..it really isn't a black and white situation in some cases (no pun intended).

Now this is becoming fascinating to me. OK, a Catholic who eats meat on Friday may be a sinner, but would other religions? Now, say, again for the sake of argument, that the gas station owners, who at least in my area are largely Islamic, find you to be in a state of sin for not facing east and praying 5 times a day. As you would be living in a state of sin, in their eyes, would it be fair for them to refuse to sell you gas, and force you to drive god who knows 20-30 miles to fill up every time you need? I mean, there's places in INdiana when you might not see a gas station for 50 miles.

As I go back and look at what I typed and see your response...I think I realize my error. It's not that you shouldn't have to serve those that are against your beliefs...but rather in the course of serving them you shouldn't have to be brought into going against your beliefs yourself...geez I need to get some sleep...sorry to be so confusing.

Harvard Dan wrote:

Darkside wrote:

Harvard Dan wrote:

I think that part is clear.

Jesus would surely have a meal with people that are gay.

That isn't the issue here though. No one is asking a caterer to sit with gay people and have a meal.

They are asking them to give tacit approval for their wedding by taking part in it against the tenets of their faith.

A more apt example would be would Jesus officiate at a gay marriage.

They are asking them to give tacit approval for their wedding by taking part in it against the tenets of their faith.

This might be the most disappointed I've ever been in a person.

Darkside wrote:

This might be the most disappointed I've ever been in a person.

you do realize who you're talking to

Harvard Dan wrote:

Darkside wrote:

Harvard Dan wrote:

Well then they would also have to object to working weddings where people were married without an annulment from a previous marriage.

Protestants don't believe in annulments.

Seacrest wrote:

Protestants don't believe in annulments.

As a catholic I can't serve protestants now? I need to catch up on the groups I should be discriminating against.

The GOP clown car is lining up to defend this law.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/03/3 ... mg00000016

Chus wrote:

The GOP clown car is lining up to defend this law.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/03/3 ... mg00000016

Please don't lump the whole Republican party in with these nitwits. Not that you are but you k ow what I mean.

Chus wrote:

The GOP clown car is lining up to defend this law.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/03/3 ... mg00000016

Please don't lump the whole Republican party in with these nitwits. Not that you are but you k ow what I mean.

Darkside wrote:

Chus wrote:

The GOP clown car is lining up to defend this law.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/03/3 ... mg00000016

Please don't lump the whole Republican party in with these nitwits. Not that you are but you k ow what I mean.

How right he was, no?

Caller Bob wrote:

Darkside wrote:

Chus wrote:

The GOP clown car is lining up to defend this law.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/03/3 ... mg00000016

Please don't lump the whole Republican party in with these nitwits. Not that you are but you k ow what I mean.

How right he was, no?

Wow...that's some powerful stuff.
I don't think they have control of the Republican party, but they have enough influence to drive a huge wedge in the party and screw up their chances of occupying the white house.

Dems have their Benghazi. Can I trademark GAYghazi? All of the GOP candidates are backing this law. Strap it down. You will hear about this for the next two years.

Mr. Belvidere wrote:

Dems have their Benghazi. Can I trademark GAYghazi? All of the GOP candidates are backing this law. Strap it down. You will hear about this for the next two years.

Gays can't get their rainbow cakes and dildo shaped pasteries!

What does it matter?!?!?

SomeGuy wrote:

Mr. Belvidere wrote:

Dems have their Benghazi. Can I trademark GAYghazi? All of the GOP candidates are backing this law. Strap it down. You will hear about this for the next two years.

Gays can't get their rainbow cakes and dildo shaped pasteries!

What does it matter?!?!?

Im assuming you arent gay. Do you buy vagina shaped cakes? Cuz all gay men buy dildo cakes. You are an unfunny ass..

Author:	Chus [ Mon Mar 30, 2015 9:39 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Mike Pence and the rest of the Indiana legislature
rogers park bryan wrote: Chus wrote: Seacrest wrote: Chus wrote: This article explains how Indiana's law is different than other states. http://thinkprogress.org/lgbt/2015/03/3 ... eedom-law/ What does Kentucky's law actually state Chus? It was referenced without citation in the article. The article explained the difference. Quote: Every other Religious Freedom Restoration Act applies to disputes between a person or entity and a government. Indiana’s is the only law that explicitly applies to disputes between private citizens.* This means it could be used as a cudgel by corporations to justify discrimination against individuals that might otherwise be protected under law. Indiana trial lawyer Matt Anderson, discussing this difference, writes that [b]the Indiana law is “more broadly written than its federal and state predecessors” and opens up “the path of least resistance among its species to have a court adjudicate it in a manner that could ultimately be used to discriminate…”[/b] I posted a few articles earlier highlighting the differences. We can only lead the horses to water, we cannot make them drink.

Author:	Don Tiny [ Mon Mar 30, 2015 9:43 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Mike Pence and the rest of the Indiana legislature
pittmike wrote: Darkside wrote: Seacrest wrote: That's not what the caterer is saying. And you know that. Directly asked, since you've been avoiding me in this thread... Would Jesus refuse to break bread with a homosexual? No for me. You are wrong.

Author:	pittmike [ Mon Mar 30, 2015 9:44 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Mike Pence and the rest of the Indiana legislature
Don Tiny wrote: pittmike wrote: Darkside wrote: Seacrest wrote: That's not what the caterer is saying. And you know that. Directly asked, since you've been avoiding me in this thread... Would Jesus refuse to break bread with a homosexual? No for me. You are wrong. I am wrong that no Jesus would not refuse to break bread?

Author:	Hawg Ass [ Mon Mar 30, 2015 10:15 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Mike Pence and the rest of the Indiana legislature
Harvard Dan wrote: Darkside wrote: I'm of the opinion that people that are truly religious, truly christian, would abhor this law as it's using religion to justify bigotry. What better way to reach out to others than to serve them...true Christians would acknowledge that all sin and fall short of the glory of God. Agree Dan

Author:	Don Tiny [ Mon Mar 30, 2015 10:25 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Mike Pence and the rest of the Indiana legislature
pittmike wrote: I am wrong that no Jesus would not refuse to break bread? Misunderstood ... I thought it meant "no, He wouldn't break bread".

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Mike Pence and the rest of the Indiana legislature http://chicagofanatics.com/viewtopic.php?f=75&t=93091	Page 10 of 13

Author:	Seacrest [ Mon Mar 30, 2015 11:17 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Mike Pence and the rest of the Indiana legislature
Harvard Dan wrote: Darkside wrote: Harvard Dan wrote: Not saying I hold this position...but I suppose the argument that while those are all in sins, homosexuality would be considered being in a state of sin that is not seeking repentance while the others may want to stop etc...again not saying I hold that belief. But yes, I could refuse business to a liar, a divorcee (unless allowed under the Moses provision), a Catholic who eats meat on Friday. It becomes a slippery slope. While I sympathize with the business person who doesn't want to perform a service against their belief system..it really isn't a black and white situation in some cases (no pun intended). Now this is becoming fascinating to me. OK, a Catholic who eats meat on Friday may be a sinner, but would other religions? Now, say, again for the sake of argument, that the gas station owners, who at least in my area are largely Islamic, find you to be in a state of sin for not facing east and praying 5 times a day. As you would be living in a state of sin, in their eyes, would it be fair for them to refuse to sell you gas, and force you to drive god who knows 20-30 miles to fill up every time you need? I mean, there's places in INdiana when you might not see a gas station for 50 miles. As I go back and look at what I typed and see your response...I think I realize my error. It's not that you shouldn't have to serve those that are against your beliefs...but rather in the course of serving them you shouldn't have to be brought into going against your beliefs yourself...geez I need to get some sleep...sorry to be so confusing. I think that part is clear. Jesus would surely have a meal with people that are gay. That isn't the issue here though. No one is asking a caterer to sit with gay people and have a meal. They are asking them to give tacit approval for their wedding by taking part in it against the tenets of their faith. A more apt example would be would Jesus officiate at a gay marriage.

Author:	conns7901 [ Mon Mar 30, 2015 11:23 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Mike Pence and the rest of the Indiana legislature
Seacrest wrote: Harvard Dan wrote: Darkside wrote: Harvard Dan wrote: Not saying I hold this position...but I suppose the argument that while those are all in sins, homosexuality would be considered being in a state of sin that is not seeking repentance while the others may want to stop etc...again not saying I hold that belief. But yes, I could refuse business to a liar, a divorcee (unless allowed under the Moses provision), a Catholic who eats meat on Friday. It becomes a slippery slope. While I sympathize with the business person who doesn't want to perform a service against their belief system..it really isn't a black and white situation in some cases (no pun intended). Now this is becoming fascinating to me. OK, a Catholic who eats meat on Friday may be a sinner, but would other religions? Now, say, again for the sake of argument, that the gas station owners, who at least in my area are largely Islamic, find you to be in a state of sin for not facing east and praying 5 times a day. As you would be living in a state of sin, in their eyes, would it be fair for them to refuse to sell you gas, and force you to drive god who knows 20-30 miles to fill up every time you need? I mean, there's places in INdiana when you might not see a gas station for 50 miles. As I go back and look at what I typed and see your response...I think I realize my error. It's not that you shouldn't have to serve those that are against your beliefs...but rather in the course of serving them you shouldn't have to be brought into going against your beliefs yourself...geez I need to get some sleep...sorry to be so confusing. I think that part is clear. Jesus would surely have a meal with people that are gay. That isn't the issue here though. No one is asking a caterer to sit with gay people and have a meal. They are asking them to give tacit approval for their wedding by taking part in it against the tenets of their faith. A more apt example would be would Jesus officiate at a gay marriage. Well then they would also have to object to working weddings where people were married without an annulment from a previous marriage.

Author:	Darkside [ Mon Mar 30, 2015 11:45 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Mike Pence and the rest of the Indiana legislature
Seacrest wrote: They are asking them to give tacit approval for their wedding by taking part in it against the tenets of their faith. What a total, cowardly load of horseshit that is. They're not asking for approval. They wanted a meal cooked. This might be the most disappointed I've ever been in a person. I would be ashamed to have made a post like this. I'm not a praying man, normally. I believe that the universe tends to unfold as it should to paraphrase a silly movie. But its time to pray for you.

Author:	Bagels [ Tue Mar 31, 2015 7:26 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Mike Pence and the rest of the Indiana legislature
Darkside wrote: This might be the most disappointed I've ever been in a person. you do realize who you're talking to

Author:	Seacrest [ Tue Mar 31, 2015 7:29 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Mike Pence and the rest of the Indiana legislature
Bagels wrote: Darkside wrote: This might be the most disappointed I've ever been in a person. you do realize who you're talking to Like I said six pages ago. Shame and misinformation is all you really have to peddle here.

Author:	Seacrest [ Tue Mar 31, 2015 7:32 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Mike Pence and the rest of the Indiana legislature
Seacrest wrote: Harvard Dan wrote: Darkside wrote: Harvard Dan wrote: Not saying I hold this position...but I suppose the argument that while those are all in sins, homosexuality would be considered being in a state of sin that is not seeking repentance while the others may want to stop etc...again not saying I hold that belief. But yes, I could refuse business to a liar, a divorcee (unless allowed under the Moses provision), a Catholic who eats meat on Friday. It becomes a slippery slope. While I sympathize with the business person who doesn't want to perform a service against their belief system..it really isn't a black and white situation in some cases (no pun intended). Now this is becoming fascinating to me. OK, a Catholic who eats meat on Friday may be a sinner, but would other religions? Now, say, again for the sake of argument, that the gas station owners, who at least in my area are largely Islamic, find you to be in a state of sin for not facing east and praying 5 times a day. As you would be living in a state of sin, in their eyes, would it be fair for them to refuse to sell you gas, and force you to drive god who knows 20-30 miles to fill up every time you need? I mean, there's places in INdiana when you might not see a gas station for 50 miles. As I go back and look at what I typed and see your response...I think I realize my error. It's not that you shouldn't have to serve those that are against your beliefs...but rather in the course of serving them you shouldn't have to be brought into going against your beliefs yourself...geez I need to get some sleep...sorry to be so confusing. I think that part is clear. Jesus would surely have a meal with people that are gay. That isn't the issue here though. No one is asking a caterer to sit with gay people and have a meal. They are asking them to give tacit approval for their wedding by taking part in it against the tenets of their faith. A more apt example would be would Jesus officiate at a gay marriage. conns7901 wrote: Well then they would also have to object to working weddings where people were married without an annulment from a previous marriage. Protestants don't believe in annulments.

Author:	Douchebag [ Tue Mar 31, 2015 8:25 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Mike Pence and the rest of the Indiana legislature
Seacrest wrote: Protestants don't believe in annulments. As a catholic I can't serve protestants now? I need to catch up on the groups I should be discriminating against.

Author:	Chus [ Tue Mar 31, 2015 8:57 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Mike Pence and the rest of the Indiana legislature
When Pence won't answer a simple yes or no question, we know what the answer is. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/03/3 ... mg00000016 http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/arc ... nt/388997/

Author:	Chus [ Tue Mar 31, 2015 9:15 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Mike Pence and the rest of the Indiana legislature
LOLGOP ‏@LOLGOP 16h16 hours ago The guys who consider you saying "Happy Holidays" a war think you're being too sensitive about a law that sanctifies discrimination.

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Author:	Chus [ Tue Mar 31, 2015 9:22 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Mike Pence and the rest of the Indiana legislature
Predictably, Pence runs to FOX for damage control, and he blames the liberal media. http://crooksandliars.com/2015/03/mike- ... um=twitter When asked, point blank, if he would support a law preventing discrimination against sexual orientation, he didn't answer, and stuck to his talking points. What a clown.

Author:	Chus [ Tue Mar 31, 2015 10:23 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Mike Pence and the rest of the Indiana legislature
The GOP clown car is lining up to defend this law. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/03/3 ... mg00000016

Author:	Chus [ Tue Mar 31, 2015 10:29 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Mike Pence and the rest of the Indiana legislature

Author:	Darkside [ Tue Mar 31, 2015 11:10 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Mike Pence and the rest of the Indiana legislature
Chus wrote: The GOP clown car is lining up to defend this law. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/03/3 ... mg00000016 Please don't lump the whole Republican party in with these nitwits. Not that you are but you k ow what I mean.

Author:	Caller Bob [ Tue Mar 31, 2015 11:12 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Mike Pence and the rest of the Indiana legislature
Darkside wrote: Chus wrote: The GOP clown car is lining up to defend this law. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/03/3 ... mg00000016 Please don't lump the whole Republican party in with these nitwits. Not that you are but you k ow what I mean. How right he was, no?

Author:	Chus [ Tue Mar 31, 2015 11:31 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Mike Pence and the rest of the Indiana legislature
Darkside wrote: Chus wrote: The GOP clown car is lining up to defend this law. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/03/3 ... mg00000016 Please don't lump the whole Republican party in with these nitwits. Not that you are but you k ow what I mean. I was referring to the potential 2016 candidates. Many of them are quoted in that article supporting the law.

Author:	BigW72 [ Tue Mar 31, 2015 2:12 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Mike Pence and the rest of the Indiana legislature
Caller Bob wrote: Darkside wrote: Chus wrote: The GOP clown car is lining up to defend this law. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/03/3 ... mg00000016 Please don't lump the whole Republican party in with these nitwits. Not that you are but you k ow what I mean. How right he was, no? Wow...that's some powerful stuff. I don't think they have control of the Republican party, but they have enough influence to drive a huge wedge in the party and screw up their chances of occupying the white house.

Author:	SomeGuy [ Tue Mar 31, 2015 2:45 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Mike Pence and the rest of the Indiana legislature
wdelaney72 wrote: Caller Bob wrote: Darkside wrote: Chus wrote: The GOP clown car is lining up to defend this law. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/03/3 ... mg00000016 Please don't lump the whole Republican party in with these nitwits. Not that you are but you k ow what I mean. How right he was, no? Wow...that's some powerful stuff. I don't think they have control of the Republican party, but they have enough influence to drive a huge wedge in the party and screw up their chances of occupying the white house. Goldwater was quite prescient in plenty of ways on plenty of things.

Author:	Mr. Belvidere [ Tue Mar 31, 2015 3:19 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Mike Pence and the rest of the Indiana legislature
This picture explains everything.

Author:	Mr. Belvidere [ Tue Mar 31, 2015 3:22 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Mike Pence and the rest of the Indiana legislature
Dems have their Benghazi. Can I trademark GAYghazi? All of the GOP candidates are backing this law. Strap it down. You will hear about this for the next two years.

Author:	SomeGuy [ Tue Mar 31, 2015 3:27 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Mike Pence and the rest of the Indiana legislature
Mr. Belvidere wrote: Dems have their Benghazi. Can I trademark GAYghazi? All of the GOP candidates are backing this law. Strap it down. You will hear about this for the next two years. Gays can't get their rainbow cakes and dildo shaped pasteries! What does it matter?!?!?

Author:	rogers park bryan [ Tue Mar 31, 2015 3:33 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Mike Pence and the rest of the Indiana legislature
Mike Pence trying to act like Indiana's law is exactly what Clinton signed in 93 and the other states with RFRA laws is extremely disingenuous. The Mayor of Indianapolis has been pointing out the major differences on every cable channel but the main thing is LGBT not being a protected class in Indiana as they are in other states So they're gonna write a new bill this week that undermines the whole purpose of Indiana's law (discriminate against gays) and then no one will be happy with Governor Pence.

Author:	Mr. Belvidere [ Tue Mar 31, 2015 3:34 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Mike Pence and the rest of the Indiana legislature
SomeGuy wrote: Mr. Belvidere wrote: Dems have their Benghazi. Can I trademark GAYghazi? All of the GOP candidates are backing this law. Strap it down. You will hear about this for the next two years. Gays can't get their rainbow cakes and dildo shaped pasteries! What does it matter?!?!? Im assuming you arent gay. Do you buy vagina shaped cakes? Cuz all gay men buy dildo cakes. You are an unfunny ass..

Author:	SomeGuy [ Tue Mar 31, 2015 3:38 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Mike Pence and the rest of the Indiana legislature
Mr. Belvidere wrote: SomeGuy wrote: Mr. Belvidere wrote: Dems have their Benghazi. Can I trademark GAYghazi? All of the GOP candidates are backing this law. Strap it down. You will hear about this for the next two years. Gays can't get their rainbow cakes and dildo shaped pasteries! What does it matter?!?!? Im assuming you arent gay. Do you buy vagina shaped cakes? Cuz all gay men buy dildo cakes. You are an unfunny ass.. Another pissy response. Over sensitive? You bet! I'd tell you to go cut your own throat but you've probably already got some gnarly hesitation marks to show all the ladies. You can't even do that right.... Don't let initial failure stop you from trying, though!

Author:	Mr. Belvidere [ Tue Mar 31, 2015 3:54 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Mike Pence and the rest of the Indiana legislature
You are a child and not worth my time.