It is currently Sat Jun 15, 2024 12:04 pm

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 395 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 ... 14  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 11:43 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jun 21, 2006 6:57 pm
Posts: 89511
Location: To the left of my post
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Jbi11s wrote:
Could it be? Could we be witnessing the first time in board history JoRR admitting he is wrong? I'm excited.

Image



No, because I'm not wrong:

http://ilbypasscoordinationproject.org/ ... /abortion/

"In Illinois, a pregnant person can decide to end a pregnancy until approximately 24 weeks of pregnancy. After approximately 24 weeks, a person can have an abortion only when there is a medical need."
This means the strong likelihood of death of the mother, child, or both. Even then, it will almost certainly be an early delivery at that stage and only when the life of the baby and/or mother requires it.

Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
"Medical need" can be interpreted any way. For example, "My strict Muslim parents are going to beat me and I'm under extreme mental stress" = "medical need".
That isn't true at all and the doctor would lose their license and probably face criminal charges.

_________________
You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 11:43 am 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Sun Apr 04, 2010 10:00 am
Posts: 77654
Location: Chicago Heights
pizza_Place: Aurelio's
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Terry's Peeps wrote:
denisdman wrote:
Am I reading that link incorrectly? It says up until viability or 22-24 weeks. That is not up until born.


SAD that MANY are spouting fake news.


"Viability" is open to the interpretation of the provider. There are basically no limits on abortions in the State of Illinois.
Viability would not extend to birth unless the baby is not going to survive anyways. The interpretation may allow it up to 24 weeks but even that seems incredibly rare outside of the failed pregnancy.


"Medical need" does not refer to the baby which isn't even discussed as a baby but is called a fetus. Mental stress to the mother is a "medical need". That's a fact. I'm not really interested in arguing about it. If you want to be mistaken it's fine with me.

I don't have opinions on abortion that are based on deep religious conviction. My viewpoint is simply that I believe human life should be sacred and that it shouldn't be terminated by other men. I'm against the death penalty and euthanasia as well. Now, if you want to give me the who you crappin' treatment and get into a deep philosophical discussion about how much my view is actually informed by religion, that's going to go on for a long time. Why does human life have value anyway? What makes us believe it does?

_________________
Communists are just people who are terrible at capitalism.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 11:44 am 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2005 6:45 pm
Posts: 37546
Location: Lovetron
pizza_Place: Malnati's
]

Terry's Peeps wrote:
No it can't.

Let's not TRUMP up every fucking thread with nonsense.


Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
It can and it has. Listen, I'm just telling you the facts. If you don't want to know them, that's fine.


Welcome to the times we live in.

If presented with a fact(s) that I do not like, I'll tell myself it's false.

_________________
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
The victims are the American People and the Republic itself.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 11:46 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jul 29, 2009 6:05 pm
Posts: 68609
pizza_Place: Lina's Pizza
Seacrest wrote:
]

Terry's Peeps wrote:
No it can't.

Let's not TRUMP up every fucking thread with nonsense.


Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
It can and it has. Listen, I'm just telling you the facts. If you don't want to know them, that's fine.


Welcome to the times we live in.

If presented with a fact(s) that I do not like, I'll tell myself it's false.


I know but I'm giving JORR the benefit of the doubt.

_________________
The Hawk wrote:
There is not a damned thing wrong with people who are bull shitters.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 11:47 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jun 21, 2006 6:57 pm
Posts: 89511
Location: To the left of my post
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
"Medical need" does not refer to the baby which isn't even discussed as a baby but is called a fetus. Mental stress to the mother is a "medical need". That's a fact. I'm not really interested in arguing about it. If you want to be mistaken it's fine with me.
No, you are wrong. You just flat out are. Any doctor who performs an abortion an hour before the birth would have happened is going to lose their license and likely face criminal charges if they do it because the mother is stressed.

Viability is a medical term.

_________________
You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 11:48 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Dec 07, 2015 6:08 pm
Posts: 3725
Location: East of Eden
pizza_Place: Vito and Nick's
Seacrest wrote:
If presented with a fact(s) that I do not like, I'll tell myself it's false.


It's an interpretation, not a fact. It's actually just a possible interpretation.

I think that this interpretation would not hold up in a medical establishment. And if it did, and the public found out, then the Civil War would commence immediately.

_________________
rogers park bryan wrote:
This registered sex offender I regularly converse with on the internet just said something really stupid


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 11:49 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jun 21, 2006 6:57 pm
Posts: 89511
Location: To the left of my post
Seacrest wrote:
]

Terry's Peeps wrote:
No it can't.

Let's not TRUMP up every fucking thread with nonsense.


Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
It can and it has. Listen, I'm just telling you the facts. If you don't want to know them, that's fine.


Welcome to the times we live in.

If presented with a fact(s) that I do not like, I'll tell myself it's false.
Is it legal for a doctor to stab you?

_________________
You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 11:49 am 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2005 6:45 pm
Posts: 37546
Location: Lovetron
pizza_Place: Malnati's
formerlyknownas wrote:
Seacrest wrote:
If presented with a fact(s) that I do not like, I'll tell myself it's false.


It's an interpretation, not a fact. It's actually just a possible interpretation.

I think that this interpretation would not hold up in a medical establishment. And if it did, and the public found out, then the Civil War would commence immediately.



It is a fact, whether you like or not.

And you wouldn't find out. Unless the woman, doctor or nurse chose to tell you which is HIGHLY unlikely.

_________________
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
The victims are the American People and the Republic itself.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 11:51 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jul 29, 2009 6:05 pm
Posts: 68609
pizza_Place: Lina's Pizza
So nobody has a verifiable fact about an abortion being performed in Illinois after 24 weeks where the medical necessity was stress on the mother?

Cool.

_________________
The Hawk wrote:
There is not a damned thing wrong with people who are bull shitters.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 11:52 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jan 28, 2011 3:05 am
Posts: 28664
pizza_Place: Clamburger's
Image

_________________
Nardi wrote:
Weird, I see Dolphin looking in my asshole


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 11:52 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Dec 07, 2015 6:08 pm
Posts: 3725
Location: East of Eden
pizza_Place: Vito and Nick's
Seacrest wrote:
formerlyknownas wrote:
Seacrest wrote:
If presented with a fact(s) that I do not like, I'll tell myself it's false.


It's an interpretation, not a fact. It's actually just a possible interpretation.

I think that this interpretation would not hold up in a medical establishment. And if it did, and the public found out, then the Civil War would commence immediately.



It is a fact, whether you like or not.

And you wouldn't find out. Unless the woman, doctor or nurse chose to tell you which is HIGHLY unlikely.

No, it's not a fact.

What's a fact is that the doctor could perform the abortion. It's not a fact that he could perform it for the reason stated. That's an interpretation, a possibility.

Whether an investigator would* uncover this, I really have no idea.

* or could

_________________
rogers park bryan wrote:
This registered sex offender I regularly converse with on the internet just said something really stupid


Last edited by formerlyknownas on Wed Jul 12, 2017 11:53 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 11:52 am 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2005 6:45 pm
Posts: 37546
Location: Lovetron
pizza_Place: Malnati's
Terry's Peeps wrote:
So nobody has a verifiable fact about an abortion being performed in Illinois after 24 weeks where the medical necessity was stress on the mother?

Cool.


No, but what we have is the state saying that it is LEGAL in certain instances.

Cognitive Dissonance is not your friend.

_________________
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
The victims are the American People and the Republic itself.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 11:54 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jul 29, 2009 6:05 pm
Posts: 68609
pizza_Place: Lina's Pizza
Seacrest wrote:
Terry's Peeps wrote:
So nobody has a verifiable fact about an abortion being performed in Illinois after 24 weeks where the medical necessity was stress on the mother?

Cool.


No, but what we have is the state saying that it is LEGAL in certain instances.

Cognitive Dissonance is not your friend.


The State is saying that doctors can perform an abortion after 24 weeks because of stress on the mother?

Please provide that link.

_________________
The Hawk wrote:
There is not a damned thing wrong with people who are bull shitters.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 11:54 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Dec 07, 2015 6:08 pm
Posts: 3725
Location: East of Eden
pizza_Place: Vito and Nick's
Seacrest wrote:
Terry's Peeps wrote:
So nobody has a verifiable fact about an abortion being performed in Illinois after 24 weeks where the medical necessity was stress on the mother?

Cool.


No, but what we have is the state saying that it is LEGAL in certain instances.

Cognitive Dissonance is not your friend.

But not this instance (fear of violent zealot parents)

_________________
rogers park bryan wrote:
This registered sex offender I regularly converse with on the internet just said something really stupid


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 11:55 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jun 21, 2006 6:57 pm
Posts: 89511
Location: To the left of my post
Seacrest wrote:
Terry's Peeps wrote:
So nobody has a verifiable fact about an abortion being performed in Illinois after 24 weeks where the medical necessity was stress on the mother?

Cool.


No, but what we have is the state saying that it is LEGAL in certain instances.

Cognitive Dissonance is not your friend.
Cutting your chest wide open is LEGAL in certain instances too.

I also have bad news for you, if you are going down this route, then even if you banned abortions completely, these rare cases would still exist as it would be malpractice to let the mother and child die while waiting for a time in which actual birth could take place.

_________________
You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 11:55 am 
Offline
100000 CLUB
User avatar

Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2006 6:17 pm
Posts: 102343
pizza_Place: Vito & Nick's
Terry's Peeps wrote:
So nobody has a verifiable fact about an abortion being performed in Illinois after 24 weeks where the medical necessity was stress on the mother?
Does somebody saying "It can happen and has happened" count?

Under the Hippocratic Oath, I do not believe that a real doctor would ever perform an abortion on a fetus that was within hours of being born-- which in some cases might mean the Mother is in labor-- simply due to "mental stress" on the mother's part.

_________________
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
It's more fun to be a victim
Caller Bob wrote:
There will never be an effective vaccine. I'll never get one anyway.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 11:57 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jun 21, 2006 6:57 pm
Posts: 89511
Location: To the left of my post
Planned Parenthood of Illinois will only provide abortions up to 19 weeks, 6 days. We should tell them that they don't have to worry about that any more!

_________________
You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 11:59 am 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2005 6:45 pm
Posts: 37546
Location: Lovetron
pizza_Place: Malnati's
Frank Coztansa wrote:
Terry's Peeps wrote:
So nobody has a verifiable fact about an abortion being performed in Illinois after 24 weeks where the medical necessity was stress on the mother?
Does somebody saying "It can happen and has happened" count?

Under the Hippocratic Oath, I do not believe that a real doctor would ever perform an abortion on a fetus that was within hours of being born-- which in some cases might mean the Mother is in labor-- simply due to "mental stress" on the mother's part.



The Hippocratic Oath became moot when the legalized abortion.

_________________
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
The victims are the American People and the Republic itself.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 12:00 pm 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Sun Apr 04, 2010 10:00 am
Posts: 77654
Location: Chicago Heights
pizza_Place: Aurelio's
Terry's Peeps wrote:
Seacrest wrote:
Terry's Peeps wrote:
So nobody has a verifiable fact about an abortion being performed in Illinois after 24 weeks where the medical necessity was stress on the mother?

Cool.


No, but what we have is the state saying that it is LEGAL in certain instances.

Cognitive Dissonance is not your friend.


The State is saying that doctors can perform an abortion after 24 weeks because of stress on the mother?

Please provide that link.



That's between a woman and her doctor.

_________________
Communists are just people who are terrible at capitalism.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 12:01 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jan 28, 2011 3:05 am
Posts: 28664
pizza_Place: Clamburger's
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Terry's Peeps wrote:
Seacrest wrote:
Terry's Peeps wrote:
So nobody has a verifiable fact about an abortion being performed in Illinois after 24 weeks where the medical necessity was stress on the mother?

Cool.


No, but what we have is the state saying that it is LEGAL in certain instances.

Cognitive Dissonance is not your friend.


The State is saying that doctors can perform an abortion after 24 weeks because of stress on the mother?

Please provide that link.



That's between a woman and her doctor.


Don't try to pretend like you didn't just do a quick google search for evidence, and came up empty handed.

_________________
Nardi wrote:
Weird, I see Dolphin looking in my asshole


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 12:03 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jun 21, 2006 6:57 pm
Posts: 89511
Location: To the left of my post
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
That's between a woman and her doctor.
You know that doctors have oversight right?

A week 39 abortion would get a lot of scrutiny.

_________________
You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 12:04 pm 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2005 6:45 pm
Posts: 37546
Location: Lovetron
pizza_Place: Malnati's
formerlyknownas wrote:
Seacrest wrote:
Terry's Peeps wrote:
So nobody has a verifiable fact about an abortion being performed in Illinois after 24 weeks where the medical necessity was stress on the mother?

Cool.


No, but what we have is the state saying that it is LEGAL in certain instances.

Cognitive Dissonance is not your friend.

But not this instance (fear of violent zealot parents)


Medical stress is a real condition.

I don't know of any specific cases where an abortion was done after 24 weeks.

_________________
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
The victims are the American People and the Republic itself.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 12:04 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 26, 2016 4:46 pm
Posts: 20978
pizza_Place: Giordano's
Need an actual lawyer to weigh in here, but wouldn't "medical need" be defined either by the law or subsequent case law stemming from enaction of the bill?

Quote:
Sec. 5. (1) When the fetus is viable no abortion shall be performed unless in the medical judgment of the attending or referring physician, based on the particular facts of the case before him, it is necessary to preserve the life or health of the mother. Intentional, knowing, or reckless failure to conform to the requirements of subsection (1) of Section 5 is a Class 2 felony.

(2) When the fetus is viable the physician shall certify in writing, on a form prescribed by the Department under Section 10 of this Law, the medical indications which, in his medical judgment based on the particular facts of the case before him, warrant performance of the abortion to preserve the life or health of the mother.


This makes it sound like doctors who sign their names to forms reasoning that the mother "would just DIE if her strict parents found out about the child" would go to prison rather quickly.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 12:05 pm 
Offline
100000 CLUB
User avatar

Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2006 6:17 pm
Posts: 102343
pizza_Place: Vito & Nick's
Medical stress is not the same as mental stress.

Boilermaker Rick wrote:
A week 39 abortion would get a lot of scrutiny.
....if it were done because of "mental stress" on the mother, it sure would.

_________________
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
It's more fun to be a victim
Caller Bob wrote:
There will never be an effective vaccine. I'll never get one anyway.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 12:05 pm 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2005 6:45 pm
Posts: 37546
Location: Lovetron
pizza_Place: Malnati's
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
That's between a woman and her doctor.
You know that doctors have oversight right?

A week 39 abortion would get a lot of scrutiny.



Like Planned Parenthood's selling of body parts did?

_________________
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
The victims are the American People and the Republic itself.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 12:06 pm 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2005 6:45 pm
Posts: 37546
Location: Lovetron
pizza_Place: Malnati's
Jbi11s wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Terry's Peeps wrote:
Seacrest wrote:
Terry's Peeps wrote:
So nobody has a verifiable fact about an abortion being performed in Illinois after 24 weeks where the medical necessity was stress on the mother?

Cool.


No, but what we have is the state saying that it is LEGAL in certain instances.

Cognitive Dissonance is not your friend.


The State is saying that doctors can perform an abortion after 24 weeks because of stress on the mother?

Please provide that link.



That's between a woman and her doctor.


Don't try to pretend like you didn't just do a quick google search for evidence, and came up empty handed.



You sign HIPPA paperwork every time that you first visit a doctor.

_________________
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
The victims are the American People and the Republic itself.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 12:08 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jun 21, 2006 6:57 pm
Posts: 89511
Location: To the left of my post
Seacrest wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
That's between a woman and her doctor.
You know that doctors have oversight right?

A week 39 abortion would get a lot of scrutiny.



Like Planned Parenthood's selling of body parts did?
Just lining up the debunked talking points today aren't we?

_________________
You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 12:08 pm 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Sun Apr 04, 2010 10:00 am
Posts: 77654
Location: Chicago Heights
pizza_Place: Aurelio's
Jbi11s wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Terry's Peeps wrote:
Seacrest wrote:
Terry's Peeps wrote:
So nobody has a verifiable fact about an abortion being performed in Illinois after 24 weeks where the medical necessity was stress on the mother?

Cool.


No, but what we have is the state saying that it is LEGAL in certain instances.

Cognitive Dissonance is not your friend.


The State is saying that doctors can perform an abortion after 24 weeks because of stress on the mother?

Please provide that link.



That's between a woman and her doctor.


Don't try to pretend like you didn't just do a quick google search for evidence, and came up empty handed.


I didn't. I know I've read articles with a "doctors" making the argument that just about anything could be a medical reason.

Like I told you, I'm not that interested. You want to kill babies? Go ahead. Pull 'em out with forceps at 22 weeks or 35 weeks or drop them off buildings after they're born. Maybe humans have no more inherent value than the pig I'm gonna eat for lunch.

_________________
Communists are just people who are terrible at capitalism.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 12:09 pm 
Offline
100000 CLUB
User avatar

Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2006 6:17 pm
Posts: 102343
pizza_Place: Vito & Nick's
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
I know I've read articles with a "doctors" making the argument that just about anything could be a medical reason.
Links, please.

_________________
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
It's more fun to be a victim
Caller Bob wrote:
There will never be an effective vaccine. I'll never get one anyway.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 12:10 pm 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2005 6:45 pm
Posts: 37546
Location: Lovetron
pizza_Place: Malnati's
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Seacrest wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
That's between a woman and her doctor.
You know that doctors have oversight right?

A week 39 abortion would get a lot of scrutiny.



Like Planned Parenthood's selling of body parts did?
Just lining up the debunked talking points today aren't we?


More Cognitive Dissonance.

I have swampland for sale too.

_________________
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
The victims are the American People and the Republic itself.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 395 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 ... 14  Next

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group