Four Cups in the slave era of hockey doesn't trump 7 in the free agency era of football. Brady also owns most passing records. I was open to the Gretzky and Ruth argument. That's why I Saif arguably for Brady

It's a pretty easy argument to make. Wayne Gretzky played 20 seasons for 4 teams, including the Oilers and Kings. He had 894 goals, 1,963 assists and a plus-minus of +520 in 1,487 games. He won 9 Hart Trophies, 5 Lady Byng Trophies, 2 Conn Smythe Trophies and 4 Stanley Cups.

The crazy stats which put his relative greatness in perspective include:
-Gretzky won the scoring title by more than 70 points – six times. The past six NHL scoring races were decided by a combined 60 points. Only one non-Gretzky player has even won the scoring race by more than 30 points.
-If Gretzky never scored a goal, he still would’ve recorded 11 straight 100-point seasons and won four scoring titles. A no-goal Gretzky would still have the most 100-point seasons of all-time, and he’d be tied for the fifth-most scoring titles.
-Gretzky won eight consecutive MVPs at one point. In the NHL, NBA, NFL and MLB, no other player has won more than four consecutive MVPs.
-Only five players have recorded 150 or more points in a season. Gretzky did it nine times, a.k.a. in 45 percent of his seasons.
-Gretzky is the only player to record a 200-point season, and he did it four times.
-In a two-season stretch from 1983-84 to 1984-85, Gretzky scored 23 shorthanded goals. Only 52 players have more than 23 career shorties, and Gretzky has 73 in total, the most all-time.
-Gretzky led the league in assists in each of his first 13 seasons, and 16 times overall – 80 percent of his seasons.
-If you only counted Gretzky’s seasons after turning 30, he’d still rank fourth all-time in points per game.

I was never a huge Montana fan. This is when I actually watched a lot more football than I do now. I always had Elway and Marino over Montana back then.

We saw Brady rise to the occasion in nearly every pressure situation. Just because no drive or play sticks out in your Montana loving mind doesn't change how great Brady was.

Brady has more yards, more touchdowns, more playoff wins, and just as many Super Bowls after the age of 35 than Montana had in his entire career.

I was probably swayed too much by the number of times Montana and Walsh were drawing up plays in the dirt and on the sidelines (& the rings) to put them on par with Joe. And they couldn’t get it done for years if at all.

The Missing Link talking offseason out of town football.

The Missing Link talking offseason out of town football.

As great as he was, he only won 4 times. If you aren't winning, you're just compiling stats. I don't want to consider Gretzky the LeBron or a championshipless Ruth of hockey. However, his inability to win more cups allows Brady to be in the argument of greatest player in the history of team sports. .

I generally agree its not really possible to measure the greatest. You could probably do eras, but that is about it. Rule changes, ways people diet and exercise, equipment and performance enhancing drugs vary from era to era.

Take Jesse Owens for example. He long jumped roughly 26'8 on a cinder track with awful spikes and also ran 10.3. What would a guy like him do with modern equipment, training and drugs?

yea last week i hard S&P slobbering over Lebron's scoring record and how he did it in 150 games (or something like that ) less than Kareem...it's like for starters, scoring in the NBA is basically double what it was when Kareem was in his prime...defensive rules were different, no 3 , etc.

One of the reasons is that I was always partial to guys that had rockets for arms. Marino and Elway had those and Montana did not. The other reason is that both got more done with less. Though Marino never won the big one he did get to a Super Bowl and some AFC championship games. And he got there with supporting casts that were nowhere near as good as Montana's. Elway had junk around him during those earlier Super Bowl runs and yet still managed to get his team there anyway. That is why I have always been partial to him and Marino over Montana.

LeBron also has more than two thousand more 3-point shots made than Kareem.

Marino always impressed with his passing talent and Elway was special, even on crappy Stanford teams. I respected their games and how different, but only one quarterback ended the Dallas Cowboys run. Fwiw I only despise one pro franchise as much as the Cubbies and that’s Dallas.

Dallas was my 2nd favorite NFL team as a kid. I stopped liking them as much when Jerry Jones came in and dissed Tom Landry.

I've never had a favorite team outside of Chicago. I rooted for players like Brady and Kobe, but I still wanted them to lose when they played a Chicago team.

As great as he was, he only won 4 times. If you aren't winning, you're just compiling stats. I don't want to consider Gretzky the LeBron or a championshipless Ruth of hockey. However, his inability to win more cups allows Brady to be in the argument of greatest player in the history of team sports. .

This is an all time awful take.

Guy has his name on the cup 4 times and ALL the scoring records and you say he wasn't winning but stat compiling?
Total madness. I'm not even sure where to begin on this one.

Sport not mentioned, but Muhammed Ali has to be included in the GOAT discussions..

It was team sports.

Individual its Tiger Woods.

Sport not mentioned, but Muhammed Ali has to be included in the GOAT discussions.

For Hockey, my ex-FIL and my son constantly debate Orr v Gretzky. I think Gretzky's assist points in addition to goals kind of seal that one, but I certainly believe it's a valid debate.

For Jordan and basketball....bring up some of the others, but Lebron doesn't touch Jordan in terms GOATness. And yes...I hate Lebron for "The Decision". Come at me...fine...I don't care

TB12 may not have been the most gifted passer, but IMO he's the NFL GOAT QB. The rings and the data support it.