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PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2016 9:48 pm 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
IkeSouth wrote:
throughout the sopranos series i always wondered how that guy is still alive. he was so out of shape and sweaty all the time...


He ate beef and sausage by the fucking carload.

.


Didn't Christopher say something like that to Tony at his intervention?


Ralph said it right before Tony killed him when they were arguing over Ralph killing Pie O My for the insurance. Something like, "All of a sudden you're against killing animals? You eat beef and sausage by the carload!"

Chris returning fire in the intervention was awesome. Maybe his best moment


Paulie giving shit to the guy overseeing the intervention was pretty good, too.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2016 9:52 pm 
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Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
Whenever this comes up, I always say: yes, that is the conclusion Chase desperately wanted to imply with the cinematography of the last scene of Made in America, that T met a bloody end in front of his family.

My problem is, that ending is not set up AT ALL. Not thematically, not via the narrative nor any sub-plot throughout the whole goddamn series, much less that season, and certainly that episode (Yes, I know Tony and Bobby talk about what it is like to get killed, and Chase pulls from that as foundation for his ending, but those guys were 1) celebrating a mid-life birthday and 2) have killed a lot of people, talk of death is not out of the realm of possibility as idle chit-chat).

Think about it, the crux of that final scene is that Members Only Guy is a New York button-man acting out orders from Phil, despite Phil himself being murdered some number of days previous, and the highest remaining power of the New York family sitting down with Tony and Little Carmine to hash out a truce (very quickly, I might add, intimating that Phil had little support for the war with Tony, and was its sole driving force--we even see this in action in a scene in the middle of the episode, when Phil's consigliere suggests reaching out to Tony to end the war, but is quickly admonished). Are we supposed to believe this lone gunman somehow didn't get the word? Doesn't care about the peace? Or are we supposed to believe that New York will sit down for a truce, then break it in the next couple of days to kill a boss? Bobby is dead and Syl is in a coma, but ostensibly everyone else returned to their normal lives after the sit-down after Phil got killed, and there aren't shootouts in the streets from soldiers on either side who happened to not get word, nor is New York shown in any other scene openly reneging on the deal.

I could STILL swallow the ending as "acceptable" if, at any point in the episode or season, Chase had explored the idea of guys acting on their own to exact justice despite explicit orders not to. Bear in mind, we're not talking about Richie Aprile hounding Beansie after Tony told him to lay off, I'm talking someone taking matters into their own hands and doing something that could re-ignite a war AFTER a tentative peace had been made. We got kinda close to that with Tony B, but the circumstances, from a narrative and thematic sense, were much different.

It's a bad ending not because it isn't supported by the use of cuts and music/SFX cues in the scene, but because it isn't supported by anything done in the series up to that point, and is purely the exercise of a man who had written himself into a corner and decided to use gimmicky cinematography to obfuscate his complete lack of a thorough narrative.

I would argue once Phil died there was a chance for a takeover of NY/NJ. and its plausible Phil's second or anyone who was left in NY made the move.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2016 9:56 pm 
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Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
IkeSouth wrote:
throughout the sopranos series i always wondered how that guy is still alive. he was so out of shape and sweaty all the time...


He ate beef and sausage by the fucking carload.

.


Didn't Christopher say something like that to Tony at his intervention?


Ralph said it right before Tony killed him when they were arguing over Ralph killing Pie O My for the insurance. Something like, "All of a sudden you're against killing animals? You eat beef and sausage by the carload!"

Chris returning fire in the intervention was awesome. Maybe his best moment


Paulie giving shit to the guy overseeing the intervention was pretty good, too.

Yea, that was a team effort. Great scene by all involved.

When they find out about the dog :lol:

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2016 9:57 pm 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
Chris returning fire in the intervention was awesome. Maybe his best moment


No, it's either "She must've crawled under there for warmth" or

"You told me she had a nice ass!"
"I was TRYING to say something POSITIVE 'cause she's your friend."

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2016 9:58 pm 
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Whatever, it doesn't matter. The reality is they picked the worst song imaginable to play in the background to the ending of a great show. Making a decision to include Journey as any part of your activities show a complete lack of taste in anything.

2005

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2016 10:07 pm 
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Curious Hair wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
Chris returning fire in the intervention was awesome. Maybe his best moment


No, it's either "She must've crawled under there for warmth" or

"You told me she had a nice ass!"
"I was TRYING to say something POSITIVE 'cause she's your friend."

I almost posted again about the first one. All time great druggy excuse.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2016 10:11 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
IkeSouth wrote:
throughout the sopranos series i always wondered how that guy is still alive. he was so out of shape and sweaty all the time...


He ate beef and sausage by the fucking carload.


Didn't Christopher say something like that to Tony at his intervention?


Ralph said it right before Tony killed him when they were arguing over Ralph killing Pie O My for the insurance. Something like, "All of a sudden you're against killing animals? You eat beef and sausage by the carload!"

Ralph was fuckin great

They all were. Richie, Johnny Sack, Little Carmine, Phil.

All great in their own way

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2016 10:14 pm 
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Little Carmine was terrible outside of that scene about where he talked about his dream about the empty box.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2016 10:16 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
Little Carmine was terrible outside of that scene about where he talked about his dream about the empty box.

He was great as the Fredo of the crew

Precipice of a crossroads

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2016 10:16 pm 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
He's dead. Brilliant Finale.


"It all goes black"
-Bobby



Also, the first line in the Little Feat song that is playing when Tony enters the diner (that we never actually hear) is, "I've been down, but not like this before." This is the third time Tony has been shot. He survived the first two times.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2016 10:22 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
He's dead. Brilliant Finale.


"It all goes black"
-Bobby



Also, the first line in the Little Feat song that is playing when Tony enters the diner (that we never actually hear) is, "I've been down, but not like this before." This is the third time Tony has been shot. He survived the first two times.

Yeah, he clearly died. David Chase was even a bit heavy handed in showing it the last few minutes, which is why I don't understand why he keeps trying to play it mysteriously. Every time the diner bell rings(3-4 times in the last few minutes) we see Tony look up at the door and see from his POV looking at whoever is entering. The last scene the bell rings, he looks up, and it cuts to black and the song goes out, reinforcing the "ya never hear it coming" shit. The 10 seconds of blackness was Tony's POV.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2016 10:25 pm 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
Curious Hair wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
Chris returning fire in the intervention was awesome. Maybe his best moment


No, it's either "She must've crawled under there for warmth" or

"You told me she had a nice ass!"
"I was TRYING to say something POSITIVE 'cause she's your friend."

I almost posted again about the first one. All time great druggy excuse.


Lord, grant me the strength to lie as brazenly as Christopher Moltisanti.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2016 10:49 pm 
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Curious Hair wrote:
312player wrote:
Maybe the worst ending I've seen on any show

Seinfeld was the worst ending. This ended the only way it could.

I've actually come around on the Seinfeld ending. Lost is the worst ending ever but the show had obviously been awful long before that point. Season 1 of True Detective was pretty bad too even though I was an apologist for it at the time.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2016 11:01 pm 
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ZephMarshack wrote:
Curious Hair wrote:
312player wrote:
Maybe the worst ending I've seen on any show

Seinfeld was the worst ending. This ended the only way it could.

I've actually come around on the Seinfeld ending. Lost is the worst ending ever but the show had obviously been awful long before that point. Season 1 of True Detective was pretty bad too even though I was an apologist for it at the time.

You are the first person I've ever read or heard say the ending for TD s1 wasn't good. I thought it was pretty satisfying. Maybe not on the level as the previous episodes, but still to throw it alongside Lost and the Seinfeld ending... I just don't know. I agree with a lot of your posts, but damn...

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It wouldn't surprise me if Johnson pushed hard for civil rights just so he could whip his dick (named Jumbo) out and slap it all over Bobby.


I think it was bigger than that.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2016 11:06 pm 
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Btw... Just to add my 2 cents here. I think the producers/writers left it ambiguous because they weren't 100% sure if this was it for the show. I do remember discussions/overwhelming fan desire for an HBO or wide release film to keep the franchise going. Once Gandolfini died all that talk went with him.

I'll side with him dying on the show.

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Nas wrote:
Curious Hair wrote:
It wouldn't surprise me if Johnson pushed hard for civil rights just so he could whip his dick (named Jumbo) out and slap it all over Bobby.


I think it was bigger than that.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2016 11:14 pm 
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ZephMarshack wrote:
Curious Hair wrote:
312player wrote:
Maybe the worst ending I've seen on any show

Seinfeld was the worst ending. This ended the only way it could.

I've actually come around on the Seinfeld ending. Lost is the worst ending ever but the show had obviously been awful long before that point. Season 1 of True Detective was pretty bad too even though I was an apologist for it at the time.

No, the Seinfeld finale was a production-order-padding clip show with a flimsy wraparound plot. True Detective had a pretty weird ending that didn't fit right but gets point for looking cool, at least.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2016 11:16 pm 
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Jbi11s wrote:
ZephMarshack wrote:
Curious Hair wrote:
312player wrote:
Maybe the worst ending I've seen on any show

Seinfeld was the worst ending. This ended the only way it could.

I've actually come around on the Seinfeld ending. Lost is the worst ending ever but the show had obviously been awful long before that point. Season 1 of True Detective was pretty bad too even though I was an apologist for it at the time.

You are the first person I've ever read or heard say the ending for TD s1 wasn't good. I thought it was pretty satisfying. Maybe not on the level as the previous episodes, but still to throw it alongside Lost and the Seinfeld ending... I just don't know. I agree with a lot of your posts, but damn...


Go find the Season 1 thread.

The finale was shit upon pretty heavily.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2016 11:22 pm 
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Curious Hair wrote:
ZephMarshack wrote:
Curious Hair wrote:
312player wrote:
Maybe the worst ending I've seen on any show

Seinfeld was the worst ending. This ended the only way it could.

I've actually come around on the Seinfeld ending. Lost is the worst ending ever but the show had obviously been awful long before that point. Season 1 of True Detective was pretty bad too even though I was an apologist for it at the time.

No, the Seinfeld finale was a production-order-padding clip show with a flimsy wraparound plot. True Detective had a pretty weird ending that didn't fit right but gets point for looking cool, at least.

I can appreciate clip show criticism of Seinfeld's finale, but the ultimate conclusion of the main characters' being done in by their own narcissism and not even realizing it still worked for me. With True Detective, while I do still think that a significant portion of the disappointment was because fans of the show were completely loony, the conclusion still felt unearned and unsatisfying.

While we're on the topic of disappointing finales, I'll add that I'm still the only person I know who defends The Wire's ending and season 5 in general. David Simon's Twitter presence has definitely made that more difficult throughout the election though.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2016 11:24 pm 
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The Wire ending was perfect. How else was a show like that ever going to end? People are dumb.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2016 11:25 pm 
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Terry's Peeps wrote:
Jbi11s wrote:
ZephMarshack wrote:
Curious Hair wrote:
312player wrote:
Maybe the worst ending I've seen on any show

Seinfeld was the worst ending. This ended the only way it could.

I've actually come around on the Seinfeld ending. Lost is the worst ending ever but the show had obviously been awful long before that point. Season 1 of True Detective was pretty bad too even though I was an apologist for it at the time.

You are the first person I've ever read or heard say the ending for TD s1 wasn't good. I thought it was pretty satisfying. Maybe not on the level as the previous episodes, but still to throw it alongside Lost and the Seinfeld ending... I just don't know. I agree with a lot of your posts, but damn...


Go find the Season 1 thread.

The finale was shit upon pretty heavily.

Yeah I think I was one of the few people trying to defend it at the time.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2016 11:29 pm 
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Here's where the talk about the finale starts.

viewtopic.php?f=60&t=84237&start=540

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2016 11:30 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
The Wire ending was perfect. How else was a show like that ever going to end? People are dumb.

Because journalists who praised the show for its "realism" in its depiction of police departments and schools (and other things they have no actual knowledge about) didn't like it portraying their own field in a less than positive light.

The only thing I disliked about the finale was Marlo surviving. I could appreciate him the irony of him achieving exactly what Stringer had aspired to and getting no satisfaction, but it still didn't make sense for him to still be walking around at the end given how the show always illustrated the nihilism of the drug war in general and how ruthless the Greeks were specifically portrayed as in season 2.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2016 11:46 pm 
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Was the this like a decade ago?
One tenth of a century has passed since this finale.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2016 11:51 pm 
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Terry's Peeps wrote:
Here's where the talk about the finale starts.

viewtopic.php?f=60&t=84237&start=540

I've been posting here for about 6 years now, and there is one piece of knowledge concerning CFMB I hold higher than anything else. When Shakes agrees with you, that always means you are on the wrong side of history.

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Nas wrote:
Curious Hair wrote:
It wouldn't surprise me if Johnson pushed hard for civil rights just so he could whip his dick (named Jumbo) out and slap it all over Bobby.


I think it was bigger than that.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2016 11:59 pm 
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Jbi11s wrote:
Terry's Peeps wrote:
Here's where the talk about the finale starts.

viewtopic.php?f=60&t=84237&start=540

I've been posting here for about 6 years now, and there is one piece of knowledge concerning CFMB I hold higher than anything else. When Shakes agrees with you, that always means you are on the wrong side of history.





I beg to differ, he agreed that Kane was innocent and a victim himself from a greedy gold digging whore when I called it week one.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2016 12:00 am 
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The Seinfeld finale was pretty lousy, I didn't think True Detective s1 finale was as awful as most but I could see their dissatisfaction. Breaking Bad is how ya end a great show, Gilligan is just a much better writer than anybody else.

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Last edited by 312player on Mon Nov 28, 2016 12:01 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2016 12:00 am 
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312player wrote:
Jbi11s wrote:
Terry's Peeps wrote:
Here's where the talk about the finale starts.

viewtopic.php?f=60&t=84237&start=540

I've been posting here for about 6 years now, and there is one piece of knowledge concerning CFMB I hold higher than anything else. When Shakes agrees with you, that always means you are on the wrong side of history.





I beg to differ, he agreed that Kane was innocent and a victim himself from a greedy gold digging whore when I called it week one.

Hockey doesn't count.

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Nas wrote:
Curious Hair wrote:
It wouldn't surprise me if Johnson pushed hard for civil rights just so he could whip his dick (named Jumbo) out and slap it all over Bobby.


I think it was bigger than that.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2016 12:06 am 
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312player wrote:
The Seinfeld finale was pretty lousy, I didn't think True Detective s1 finale was as awful as most but I could see their dissatisfaction. Breaking Bad is how ya end a great show, Gilligan is just a much better writer than anybody else.

Heard a lot of bitching about BB finale.

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Nas wrote:
Curious Hair wrote:
It wouldn't surprise me if Johnson pushed hard for civil rights just so he could whip his dick (named Jumbo) out and slap it all over Bobby.


I think it was bigger than that.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2016 12:07 am 
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Hopefully, we can all agree on thing... The Dexter series finale was one of the worst endings possible.

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Nas wrote:
Curious Hair wrote:
It wouldn't surprise me if Johnson pushed hard for civil rights just so he could whip his dick (named Jumbo) out and slap it all over Bobby.


I think it was bigger than that.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2016 12:07 am 
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Jbi11s wrote:
312player wrote:
The Seinfeld finale was pretty lousy, I didn't think True Detective s1 finale was as awful as most but I could see their dissatisfaction. Breaking Bad is how ya end a great show, Gilligan is just a much better writer than anybody else.

Heard a lot of bitching about BB finale.







Bullshit

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