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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 2:42 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
I think you're just not understanding what I mean by "narrative". Who killed Tony is immaterial to the themes and motifs of that season and episode in particular. But it definitely does matter if the narrative plot is to make sense. And as displayed that plot doesn't make sense.


Did it make sense that some poor old Ukrainian got whacked because his daughter was fucking Phil Leotardo? Not to the old Ukrainian, I'm sure. There was a lot of senseless violence/killing in the series. Did it make sense when Christopher killed the guy from Wings? Did it make sense when Gene attacked Little Paulie on the construction site?

Or the waiter who Chris tipped 1 percent on an 1100 bill.

Poor guy killed all because Paulie was a cheap fuck.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 2:42 pm 
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I checked out sometime late in the 1st season when it first aired. Equal parts lack of time, interest and limited technology. The ending is the only real spoiler I know of.

I'm finishing up Chappelle's show and about to start in with Justified. There is a shit-ton of TV I've yet to watch. I just don't know when/if I will get around to it.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 2:43 pm 
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I'm way late to the party but the bottom line is the ending sucked because it was weak as water.

Write a fucking ending to your story. Would you want to read, let alone re-read, a book that, as the final resolution is coming to a head, the text just stopped in the middle of some random word and was then followed by a dozen blank pages? Well no, why would you? What kind of dope would?

Same thing here .... you had a wonderful body of work and now it's the last scene in the last episode of the greatest thing you'll do in your life and you ... make however-many million people think their cable went out.

That's either lazy, chickenshit, or both. Keep it.

Shoot him. Have the police come in. Have him go to the can and have a grabber while pushing mud. Hell, have a nice fadeout of the family enjoying a nice meal together - anything but whatever happy horseshit that fast cut to black was that MANY people want to pretend was some deep message or something.

Rant over.

She was a WHORE, Ant'nee!

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 2:47 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
I think you're just not understanding what I mean by "narrative". Who killed Tony is immaterial to the themes and motifs of that season and episode in particular. But it definitely does matter if the narrative plot is to make sense. And as displayed that plot doesn't make sense.


Did it make sense that some poor old Ukrainian got whacked because his daughter was fucking Phil Leotardo? Not to the old Ukrainian, I'm sure. There was a lot of senseless violence/killing in the series. Did it make sense when Christopher killed the guy from Wings? Did it make sense when Gene attacked Little Paulie on the construction site?
JORR, we got to see the narrative justifications for ALL of that violence. The Old Ukranian died because Tony tried to farm out too much hit work to The Other Side who was unfamiliar with the lay of the land, Christopher killed this writer because the writer knew that Cleaver was a revenge fantasy of Christopher's against Tony, and Gene never attacked the Witless Nephew, it was a group of unidentified black males.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 2:47 pm 
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Don Tiny wrote:
I'm way late to the party but the bottom line is the ending sucked because it was weak as water.

Write a fucking ending to your story. Would you want to read, let alone re-read, a book that, as the final resolution is coming to a head, the text just stopped in the middle of some random word and was then followed by a dozen blank pages? Well no, why would you? What kind of dope would?

Same thing here .... you had a wonderful body of work and now it's the last scene in the last episode of the greatest thing you'll do in your life and you ... make however-many million people think their cable went out.

That's either lazy, chickenshit, or both. Keep it.

Shoot him. Have the police come in. Have him go to the can and have a grabber while pushing mud. Hell, have a nice fadeout of the family enjoying a nice meal together - anything but whatever happy horseshit that fast cut to black was that MANY people want to pretend was some deep message or something.

Rant over.

She was a WHORE, Ant'nee!

Maybe your worst post ever.

It was brilliant.

Also, there are all kinds of great books with ambiguous endings. I guess if you're taking issue with the black screen specifically I can see it, but not showing exactly what happened is common and often times a perfect way to end a story.

But good passion, as always!


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 2:53 pm 
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Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
I think you're just not understanding what I mean by "narrative". Who killed Tony is immaterial to the themes and motifs of that season and episode in particular. But it definitely does matter if the narrative plot is to make sense. And as displayed that plot doesn't make sense.


Did it make sense that some poor old Ukrainian got whacked because his daughter was fucking Phil Leotardo? Not to the old Ukrainian, I'm sure. There was a lot of senseless violence/killing in the series. Did it make sense when Christopher killed the guy from Wings? Did it make sense when Gene attacked Little Paulie on the construction site?
JORR, we got to see the narrative justifications for ALL of that violence. The Old Ukranian died because Tony tried to farm out too much hit work to The Other Side who was unfamiliar with the lay of the land, Christopher killed this writer because the writer knew that Cleaver was a revenge fantasy of Christopher's against Tony, and Gene never attacked the Witless Nephew, it was a group of unidentified black males.


:lol: :lol:

Tony died because he was a ruthless motherfucker who made a shitload of enemies throughout his life. He had escaped death a couple times previous. He finally caught what was coming to him.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 3:02 pm 
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Now that we know he died (for those that didn't think so) the ending is better and makes more sense. Literally anyone could have done it and the lesson is that even when the mafia boss wins the battle in this case the life never lets you go. Eventually it is your turn to die. And it is symbolic he is in his family life.

My take is either some goof did not get the word his contract was cancelled with the end of the war with NY and he offs him. Or some other concerned party that was looking forward to taking over in one way or another after Tony was to lose to NY was putting out another hit. Tony makes up with NY and this person says of hell no that was promised to me.

Anyway, the ending works even while being disappointing for lack of closure because anyone can imagine what they want.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 3:05 pm 
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I just watched the last few episodes yesterday. One thing I find unbelievable is that hapless fatass Baccala suddenly became born again hard for the last season.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 3:08 pm 
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I think the dude with a jacket that probably did it is just a symbol that represents mob life.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 3:12 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
I think you're just not understanding what I mean by "narrative". Who killed Tony is immaterial to the themes and motifs of that season and episode in particular. But it definitely does matter if the narrative plot is to make sense. And as displayed that plot doesn't make sense.


Did it make sense that some poor old Ukrainian got whacked because his daughter was fucking Phil Leotardo? Not to the old Ukrainian, I'm sure. There was a lot of senseless violence/killing in the series. Did it make sense when Christopher killed the guy from Wings? Did it make sense when Gene attacked Little Paulie on the construction site?
JORR, we got to see the narrative justifications for ALL of that violence. The Old Ukranian died because Tony tried to farm out too much hit work to The Other Side who was unfamiliar with the lay of the land, Christopher killed this writer because the writer knew that Cleaver was a revenge fantasy of Christopher's against Tony, and Gene never attacked the Witless Nephew, it was a group of unidentified black males.


:lol: :lol:

Tony died because he was a ruthless motherfucker who made a shitload of enemies throughout his life. He had escaped death a couple times previous. He finally caught what was coming to him.
I don't care about the actual reason Tony gets killed, it could be the Cubans from Miami unhappy with the latest shipment of pool toys. My problem is that whatever the reason, the viewer wasn't let in on it, and if the show can let the audience see Tony divining that one of his Capo's was a cooperating witness during a fever dream, then it can certainly show us the Cubans getting pissed with Tony's business dealings.

"It was one of the countless enemies he had made throughout his life, but you don't get to know who or why" from the show that spent the better parts of multiple episodes inside dream states is whack as hell.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 3:12 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
I think you're just not understanding what I mean by "narrative". Who killed Tony is immaterial to the themes and motifs of that season and episode in particular. But it definitely does matter if the narrative plot is to make sense. And as displayed that plot doesn't make sense.


Did it make sense that some poor old Ukrainian got whacked because his daughter was fucking Phil Leotardo? Not to the old Ukrainian, I'm sure. There was a lot of senseless violence/killing in the series. Did it make sense when Christopher killed the guy from Wings? Did it make sense when Gene attacked Little Paulie on the construction site?

If Goodfellas built on The Godfather by deconstructing the romanticized vision of the Mafia as a charming Old World artifact, The Sopranos further built on Goodfellas by showing that not only is the Mafia really about indiscriminate violence, everyone moved out to the suburbs and got lazier, sloppier, and dumber about it, too. So senselessness is a pretty big part of the theme, I think.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 3:22 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
I just watched the last few episodes yesterday. One thing I find unbelievable is that hapless fatass Baccala suddenly became born again hard for the last season.

Interesting, what makes you say that? The fight with Tony?

I thought he maintained some of his hapless bumbling character with that sloppy as hit in the laundromat. And Janice WAS pushing him.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 3:25 pm 
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Furious Styles wrote:
I checked out sometime late in the 1st season when it first aired. Equal parts lack of time, interest and limited technology. The ending is the only real spoiler I know of.

I'm finishing up Chappelle's show and about to start in with Justified. There is a shit-ton of TV I've yet to watch. I just don't know when/if I will get around to it.



Justified blows that weak ass sopranos out of the water, check out peaky blinders.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 3:27 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
I just watched the last few episodes yesterday. One thing I find unbelievable is that hapless fatass Baccala suddenly became born again hard for the last season.



Janet toughened him up, also Dad n wife died.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 3:29 pm 
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Curious Hair wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
I think you're just not understanding what I mean by "narrative". Who killed Tony is immaterial to the themes and motifs of that season and episode in particular. But it definitely does matter if the narrative plot is to make sense. And as displayed that plot doesn't make sense.


Did it make sense that some poor old Ukrainian got whacked because his daughter was fucking Phil Leotardo? Not to the old Ukrainian, I'm sure. There was a lot of senseless violence/killing in the series. Did it make sense when Christopher killed the guy from Wings? Did it make sense when Gene attacked Little Paulie on the construction site?

If Goodfellas built on The Godfather by deconstructing the romanticized vision of the Mafia as a charming Old World artifact, The Sopranos further built on Goodfellas by showing that not only is the Mafia really about indiscriminate violence, everyone moved out to the suburbs and got lazier, sloppier, and dumber about it, too. So senselessness is a pretty big part of the theme, I think.



I agree. I thought the scene in Donnie Brasco where guys are trying to bust quarters out of a parking meter was closer to reality than most screen depictions.

Your paragraph above reminds me of an incident at my club. We had to loosen up membership because there just aren't enough old Dagos to pay the dues we need to operate. So we got this group of Libertarian gun nuts to join. They do their thing and don't really bother anybody. A bunch of them are really into The Walking Dead and they used to have parties at the club for the premieres and finales where they would dress like zombies and stuff. Well, one Sunday night a couple of the old mustaches stopped up at the club during one of the parties and I guess it didn't go so well. I got a call from Tony Da Tiger asking me the fuck was going on. "Hey, dere's a buncha guyz up dere dressed up like faygz wit makeup an' shit. What da fuck is happenin' wit our club?" So I had to smooth that situation out. :lol:

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 3:31 pm 
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Sounds like The Hawk would be a perfect new addition to your club.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 3:32 pm 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
I just watched the last few episodes yesterday. One thing I find unbelievable is that hapless fatass Baccala suddenly became born again hard for the last season.

Interesting, what makes you say that? The fight with Tony?

I thought he maintained some of his hapless bumbling character with that sloppy as hit in the laundromat. And Janice WAS pushing him.



Yeah, I guess it was Janice. He was just such a pussy throughout the whole show and then suddenly he's threatening Walnuts and beating the shit out of Tony and sitting on the war counsel.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 3:33 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Your paragraph above reminds me of an incident at my club. We had to loosen up membership because there just aren't enough old Dagos to pay the dues we need to operate. So we got this group of Libertarian gun nuts to join. They do their thing and don't really bother anybody. A bunch of them are really into The Walking Dead and they used to have parties at the club for the premieres and finales where they would dress like zombies and stuff. Well, one Sunday night a couple of the old mustaches stopped up at the club during one of the parties and I guess it didn't go so well. I got a call from Tony Da Tiger asking me the fuck was going on. "Hey, dere's a buncha guyz up dere dressed up like faygz wit makeup an' shit. What da fuck is happenin' wit our club?" So I had to smooth that situation out. :lol:


"Paulie Walnuts goes to Comic-Con" is now the only argument I will accept for a Sopranos reboot.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 3:33 pm 
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Curious Hair wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Your paragraph above reminds me of an incident at my club. We had to loosen up membership because there just aren't enough old Dagos to pay the dues we need to operate. So we got this group of Libertarian gun nuts to join. They do their thing and don't really bother anybody. A bunch of them are really into The Walking Dead and they used to have parties at the club for the premieres and finales where they would dress like zombies and stuff. Well, one Sunday night a couple of the old mustaches stopped up at the club during one of the parties and I guess it didn't go so well. I got a call from Tony Da Tiger asking me the fuck was going on. "Hey, dere's a buncha guyz up dere dressed up like faygz wit makeup an' shit. What da fuck is happenin' wit our club?" So I had to smooth that situation out. :lol:


"Paulie Walnuts goes to Comic-Con" is now the only argument I will accept for a Sopranos reboot.


:lol: :lol:

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 3:34 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
I just watched the last few episodes yesterday. One thing I find unbelievable is that hapless fatass Baccala suddenly became born again hard for the last season.

Interesting, what makes you say that? The fight with Tony?

I thought he maintained some of his hapless bumbling character with that sloppy as hit in the laundromat. And Janice WAS pushing him.



Yeah, I guess it was Janice. He was just such a pussy throughout the whole show and then suddenly he's threatening Walnuts and beating the shit out of Tony and sitting on the war counsel.

Yep, Janice shamed him into going after the carnie and the Paulie, too.

As far as his standing, he was just subbing for Chris in Tony's "it's gotta be family" thing.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 3:38 pm 
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Those libertarian dudes are pretty crazy :lol:

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 3:50 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
Those libertarian dudes are pretty crazy :lol:

PAULIE: You won't believe dis. Guy wanted to put 50 on Baltimore. Said he'd pay me, in bits of coins! I said he better pay in cash or he'll be spittin' up bits of teeth. Then he gave me a book, by this Ann Rand! I don't get these librarians, T.
CHRISTOPHER: Get with it, Paulie, crypto's the future! That's why I'm movin' everything over to Jerseycoin.
SIL: >:| never hearda dat one
CHRISTOPHER: It's a propertary platform.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 3:54 pm 
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Curious Hair wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
Those libertarian dudes are pretty crazy :lol:

PAULIE: You won't believe dis. Guy wanted to put 50 on Baltimore. Said he'd pay me, in bits of coins! I said he better pay in cash or he'll be spittin' up bits of teeth. Then he gave me a book, by this Ann Rand! I don't get these librarians, T.
CHRISTOPHER: Get with it, Paulie, crypto's the future! That's why I'm movin' everything over to Jerseycoin.
SIL: >:| never hearda dat one
CHRISTOPHER: It's a propertary platform.


:lol: This is awesome. You should write an entire treatment. :lol: :lol: :lol:

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 3:55 pm 
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Curious Hair wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
Those libertarian dudes are pretty crazy :lol:

PAULIE: You won't believe dis. Guy wanted to put 50 on Baltimore. Said he'd pay me, in bits of coins! I said he better pay in cash or he'll be spittin' up bits of teeth. Then he gave me a book, by this Ann Rand! I don't get these librarians, T.
CHRISTOPHER: Get with it, Paulie, crypto's the future! That's why I'm movin' everything over to Jerseycoin.
SIL: >:| never hearda dat one
CHRISTOPHER: It's a propertary platform.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Oh man that's good.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 4:01 pm 
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Well done, CH


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 7:55 pm 
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Curious Hair wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
Those libertarian dudes are pretty crazy :lol:

PAULIE: You won't believe dis. Guy wanted to put 50 on Baltimore. Said he'd pay me, in bits of coins! I said he better pay in cash or he'll be spittin' up bits of teeth. Then he gave me a book, by this Ann Rand! I don't get these librarians, T.
CHRISTOPHER: Get with it, Paulie, crypto's the future! That's why I'm movin' everything over to Jerseycoin.
SIL: >:| never hearda dat one
CHRISTOPHER: It's a propertary platform.


:lol: :lol: :lol:

Keep going.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 8:00 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
I just watched the last few episodes yesterday. One thing I find unbelievable is that hapless fatass Baccala suddenly became born again hard for the last season.

Interesting, what makes you say that? The fight with Tony?

I thought he maintained some of his hapless bumbling character with that sloppy as hit in the laundromat. And Janice WAS pushing him.



Yeah, I guess it was Janice. He was just such a pussy throughout the whole show and then suddenly he's threatening Walnuts and beating the shit out of Tony and sitting on the war counsel.

She had a low-key Empress Theodora/Lady Macbeth quality to her at the end.

Last two seasons of that show were indulgent, though.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 9:16 pm 
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Terry's Peeps wrote:
Curious Hair wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
Those libertarian dudes are pretty crazy :lol:

PAULIE: You won't believe dis. Guy wanted to put 50 on Baltimore. Said he'd pay me, in bits of coins! I said he better pay in cash or he'll be spittin' up bits of teeth. Then he gave me a book, by this Ann Rand! I don't get these librarians, T.
CHRISTOPHER: Get with it, Paulie, crypto's the future! That's why I'm movin' everything over to Jerseycoin.
SIL: >:| never hearda dat one
CHRISTOPHER: It's a propertary platform.


:lol: :lol: :lol:

Keep going.


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NICE JEWISH BOYFRIEND: Uh, it's your phone, you just made a dramatic gesture of throwing your phone at me.
MEADOW: I mean what's on it.
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MEADOW: No! I don't want you to explain! I thought you were different -- someone who's sensitive, someone who actually reads, someone who would respect me.
BOYFRIEND: And I do res--
MEADOW: Then why didn't you tell me you've been hosting a podcast, and playing a character called Frankie Del Pizza?
BOYFRIEND: You know Italian stereotypes are the only ones that aren't problematic on Twitter! I thought if anyone would understand systems of power and privilege it would be you!
MEADOW: So this is how you earn a living.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2021 3:33 pm 
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Since the movie was mentioned above I have a question for the class. In Donnie Brasco, when Sonny Black's crew is summoned to Sonny Red's basement to face the music for the Florida fuck up , instead they actually kill Sonny Red's guys instead of being whacked themselves . The next day Sonny Black basically takes over and is treated like the conquering hero. I mean, he ended up whacking an entire made crew and nothing happened from higher up ? He just takes over like nothing happened . Always found that a bit odd in the movie.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2021 3:40 pm 
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badrogue17 wrote:
Since the movie was mentioned above I have a question for the class. In Donnie Brasco, when Sonny Black's crew is summoned to Sonny Red's basement to face the music for the Florida fuck up , instead they actually kill Sonny Red's guys instead of being whacked themselves . The next day Sonny Black basically takes over and is treated like the conquering hero. I mean, he ended up whacking an entire made crew and nothing happened from higher up ? He just takes over like nothing happened . Always found that a bit odd in the movie.


i just re-watched donnie brasco last night and thought the same thing as what you just posted! :cheers:

Yes, Sonny black took out a boss without consent from the other bosses. He would have been on the chopping block

But in real life, didnt Gotti do that to Castellano? It was an un-sanctioned murder. So i think that is what they protrayed in the movie.


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