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 Post subject: Re: Illinois
PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 8:09 am 
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there is a guy on fb who is always going on and on and on about illinois and how their taxation is bullshit and how they waste money blah blah blah. this guy makes like 45 grand a year, his wife like 20, and they have 80k in auto loan debt, have a big ass carver boat, and live in a pretty nice house in a nice neighborhood. (i teach the dave ramsey bullshit at our church and they went through it for 2 weeks before they realized it was about to get pretty bad for them)


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 Post subject: Re: Illinois
PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 8:17 am 
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WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
Here's the thing that annoys me. It's great that people get fed up with Democrat states where they are taxed to death and move to more economically friendly states. However, the problem is that those morons leaving the state then come to our states of economic freedom and start voting for the same types of assholes who made their previous state a shithole to begin with. Heck the Illinois citizens fleeing to Texas and Arizona are a prime example of this. We welcome you coming to our low tax states, but stop trying to vote for politicians who want to raise taxes.


You did see that Nebraska was second on the list right? And how is the Kansas "starve the beast plan" working out?

The high Nebraska taxes are really only paid by farmers. Most residents don't see those high taxes.

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 Post subject: Re: Illinois
PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 8:33 am 
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hnd wrote:
there is a guy on fb who is always going on and on and on about illinois and how their taxation is bullshit and how they waste money blah blah blah. this guy makes like 45 grand a year, his wife like 20, and they have 80k in auto loan debt, have a big ass carver boat, and live in a pretty nice house in a nice neighborhood. (i teach the dave ramsey bullshit at our church and they went through it for 2 weeks before they realized it was about to get pretty bad for them)


That's common. Rampant consumer amid a lack of financial education. And retailers are waving easy financing at every turn for major purchases like cars and furniture.

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 Post subject: Re: Illinois
PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 8:35 am 
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denisdman wrote:
WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
This is a problem that is far bigger than just the state. The government is basically dominated by interests from special interests and too big too fail type entities that have to get theirs first even if it means the ship sinks.


indeed, crony capitalism is a scourge- farm subsidies, ExIm bank, SBA financing, Fannie/Freddie mortgage subsidies, Student Loan guarantees just to name a few. And each of them have very good missions, but the distorting effects and the corporate boondoggles built around them are toxic.

I still love that we pay twice as much for sugar as any other country in the world. The whole fricking reason that soda makers use HFC instead of cane sugar. What a racket....


Medical, the military and our education system are the biggest crony rackets now. We just dump money in the the military with zero accountability. The government just pays whatever drug companies want- zero negotiations.

Illinois has been a cesspool for generations. The Outfit dominated city politics for decades. I read in When Corruption was King there was simply a price that had to be paid to get a bill passed in Springfield.

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 Post subject: Re: Illinois
PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 8:39 am 
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Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
Here's the thing that annoys me. It's great that people get fed up with Democrat states where they are taxed to death and move to more economically friendly states. However, the problem is that those morons leaving the state then come to our states of economic freedom and start voting for the same types of assholes who made their previous state a shithole to begin with. Heck the Illinois citizens fleeing to Texas and Arizona are a prime example of this. We welcome you coming to our low tax states, but stop trying to vote for politicians who want to raise taxes.


You did see that Nebraska was second on the list right? And how is the Kansas "starve the beast plan" working out?

The high Nebraska taxes are really only paid by farmers. Most residents don't see those high taxes.


What percentage of people in Nebraska work in agriculture?

You also have Wisconsin and Ohio in near the top. Both with Republican governors. Ohio has been dominated by Republicans for the last several years. They have been spending their time gutting Planned Parenthood. Tax relief? Not so much.

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 Post subject: Re: Illinois
PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 8:40 am 
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i did some work with a debt consolidation firm when i was in college and i was blown away at people you thought were well to do just barely scraping buy because of massive amounts of debt. this was my day :

me : well i see 2 car loans, a loan for a hot tub?, 50k in credit cards, and a home equity loan.

them : yes we need to consolidate that into smaller payments

me : thats doable lets just take a look see

them : you see we need to get a 4 wheeler/motorcycle/boat/tractor/etc/etc and can't fit that payment in currently.

me: so you want to consolidate your debt so that you can comfortably go more in debt?

them :YOU ONLY LIVE ONCE!!! YEEEHAAAA


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 Post subject: Re: Illinois
PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 8:41 am 
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hnd wrote:
there is a guy on fb who is always going on and on and on about illinois and how their taxation is bullshit and how they waste money blah blah blah. this guy makes like 45 grand a year, his wife like 20, and they have 80k in auto loan debt, have a big ass carver boat, and live in a pretty nice house in a nice neighborhood. (i teach the dave ramsey bullshit at our church and they went through it for 2 weeks before they realized it was about to get pretty bad for them)

Heck, all state legislatures should be forced to go through FPU. They would learn a thing or two about spending less than you take in.

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 Post subject: Re: Illinois
PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 8:44 am 
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i've done it for 3 years now, 6 total sessions. we always lose people at step 1 $1000 dollar emergency fund. like they paid the 100 bucks or so to learn simple economic consepts and then are like Image
at the concept of saving 1000 dollars.


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 Post subject: Re: Illinois
PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 8:52 am 
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denisdman wrote:
hnd wrote:
there is a guy on fb who is always going on and on and on about illinois and how their taxation is bullshit and how they waste money blah blah blah. this guy makes like 45 grand a year, his wife like 20, and they have 80k in auto loan debt, have a big ass carver boat, and live in a pretty nice house in a nice neighborhood. (i teach the dave ramsey bullshit at our church and they went through it for 2 weeks before they realized it was about to get pretty bad for them)


That's common. Rampant consumer amid a lack of financial education. And retailers are waving easy financing at every turn for major purchases like cars and furniture.


i get the retailer stuff, but how would they have gotten a nice house in a nice neighborhood?


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 Post subject: Re: Illinois
PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 8:53 am 
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Dman, what do you have against the Ex-Im Bank?

It's a federal program that actually turns a profit while at the same time opens many foreign markets to American business. These businesses are required to use American materials and labor. MANY of these businesses are in direct competition with state run/supported Chinese companies. Traditional financing is not an option because it's too risky. Ex-Im is often the only option for American companies to compete in emerging markets in 3rd world nations.

I'm pretty close to one situation involving rural electrification in Africa.

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 Post subject: Re: Illinois
PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 9:01 am 
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W_Z wrote:
denisdman wrote:
hnd wrote:
there is a guy on fb who is always going on and on and on about illinois and how their taxation is bullshit and how they waste money blah blah blah. this guy makes like 45 grand a year, his wife like 20, and they have 80k in auto loan debt, have a big ass carver boat, and live in a pretty nice house in a nice neighborhood. (i teach the dave ramsey bullshit at our church and they went through it for 2 weeks before they realized it was about to get pretty bad for them)


That's common. Rampant consumer amid a lack of financial education. And retailers are waving easy financing at every turn for major purchases like cars and furniture.


i get the retailer stuff, but how would they have gotten a nice house in a nice neighborhood?

A mortgage is not a bad debt. It's a debt on an asset that doesn't deppreciate and puts you on a fixed housing budget for 15 or 30 years.

Other debts (student, auto, retail, etc.) are all bad debts as they are either unsecured or on depreciating assets

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 Post subject: Re: Illinois
PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 9:09 am 
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GoldenJet wrote:
Dman, what do you have against the Ex-Im Bank?

It's a federal program that actually turns a profit while at the same time opens many foreign markets to American business. These businesses are required to use American materials and labor. MANY of these businesses are in direct competition with state run/supported Chinese companies. Traditional financing is not an option because it's too risky. Ex-Im is often the only option for American companies to compete in emerging markets in 3rd world nations.

I'm pretty close to one situation involving rural electrification in Africa.



Several things. It is the epitome of corporate cronyism cloaked in supporting U.S. Exports. It mainly benefits GE and Boeing and other large, financially strong companies. They are getting subsidized financing. It crowds out the private market for financing and trade credit. They are using the U.S. Government's credit rating to lower financing costs. This is a gimmick multiplied across our economy- residential home lending, student lending, federal home loan bank funding, SBA lending. They are all utilizing the credit of the U.S. Government so that businesses can profit off it.

If commercial banks don't want to provide financing, then the project or idea does not have legs.

You correctly note that the problem is with other countries and their own crony capitalism regimes, most notably state sponsored business in China and to a lesser extent Europe.

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 Post subject: Re: Illinois
PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 9:14 am 
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denisdman wrote:
Couple of things-

States cannot file bankruptcy. This was an issue back in the 1930's, and because states are considered sovereign entities, federal bankruptcy law does not apply to them. I suspect it would take something similar to what is being done in Puerto Rico to provide relief, meaning an Act of Congress.

The state constitution expressly prohibits meaningful pension reform. Every attempt has been shot down by the State Supreme Court. And let's be honest, pension reform is simply code for cutting benefits guaranteed to workers.

The answer, as it always is, is to live within one's means. But no one will accept meaningful cuts. So it is on the backs of taxpayers. And yes, with a shrinking population base, it makes the job that much tougher.


Some pension reform can be done now: https://www.illinoispolicy.org/reports/ ... on-crisis/

Quote:
Here is a list of what Illinois lawmakers can do immediately to address the state’s growing pension shortfall:

1. Ditch politician pensions. With no unions to oppose reforms, Illinois politicians should lead by example and transition their own pensions into self-managed plans such as 401(k)s.

2. Offer 401(k)s for new workers. The Illinois Supreme Court’s ruling on SB1 doesn’t affect the retirement plans offered to new government workers. Illinois lawmakers should follow the lead of states across the country – from Michigan to Oklahoma to Alaska – and adopt self-managed plans for all new state and municipal workers.

3. Offer optional 401(k)s to current employees. Government workers shouldn’t be trapped in insolvent, politician-run retirement plans over which they have no ownership.

4. Require all teachers to make contributions toward their own pensions. In Illinois, most public-school teachers don’t pay the required 9.4 percent employee contributions toward their own pensions. Instead, many school districts pay, as a benefit, some or all of the teachers’ required payments.

5. Get the state out of the business of managing local school-district pensions. School districts should be responsible for the true costs of their employees and should pay for their annual pension costs. Going forward, the annual benefits accrued each year by teachers should be paid for by local school districts and not the state.

6. Limit the growth of pensionable salaries. Government-worker pension benefits are growing at a pace that far exceeds the growth of taxpayers’ ability to fund them. With no way to structurally reform pension benefits for current government workers, the General Assembly’s only lever is to limit salary growth and other items that drive up pensionable salaries.

7. Allow municipal bankruptcy. Without the ability to reform pensions for existing workers, local governments should have more control over how they operate. That means having the option to file for bankruptcy. Bankruptcy should be the option of last resort, but it can help struggling municipalities restructure their debt, renegotiate contracts and reform pensions.

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 Post subject: Re: Illinois
PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 9:19 am 
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That's a good start. The key would be to change the rules for new employees. I suspect those traditional pension plans will just turn into pay as you go like Social Security. It is funny that Social Security has about a 5% funded ratio and soon to be zero.

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 Post subject: Re: Illinois
PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 9:24 am 
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Can't wait to move out of Illinois. 3 more years and I'm out of this joint.


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 Post subject: Re: Illinois
PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 9:33 am 
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W_Z wrote:
denisdman wrote:
hnd wrote:
there is a guy on fb who is always going on and on and on about illinois and how their taxation is bullshit and how they waste money blah blah blah. this guy makes like 45 grand a year, his wife like 20, and they have 80k in auto loan debt, have a big ass carver boat, and live in a pretty nice house in a nice neighborhood. (i teach the dave ramsey bullshit at our church and they went through it for 2 weeks before they realized it was about to get pretty bad for them)


That's common. Rampant consumer amid a lack of financial education. And retailers are waving easy financing at every turn for major purchases like cars and furniture.


i get the retailer stuff, but how would they have gotten a nice house in a nice neighborhood?


they've been there since 2006. and when i say nice neighborhood here in the quad cities, i'm talking 200-250k which is chumpchange in chicago.


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 Post subject: Re: Illinois
PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 10:37 am 
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hmm, if only there was some sort of non utilized taxable product that would add over $350 million a year to the State's pockets.

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 Post subject: Re: Illinois
PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 10:54 am 
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shakes wrote:
hmm, if only there was some sort of non utilized taxable product that would add over $350 million a year to the State's pockets.

It's baffling to me why facts about both the drug as well as the potential financial boon are blithely ignored ... and I'm not actively pro-marijuana either. It's got to be based on a combo of ignorant people (purposeful or otherwise) and politicians on the take ... then again, that answers MANY other problematic issues too.

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 Post subject: Re: Illinois
PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 11:03 am 
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Don Tiny wrote:
shakes wrote:
hmm, if only there was some sort of non utilized taxable product that would add over $350 million a year to the State's pockets.

It's baffling to me why facts about both the drug as well as the potential financial boon are blithely ignored ... and I'm not actively pro-marijuana either. It's got to be based on a combo of ignorant people (purposeful or otherwise) and politicians on the take ... then again, that answers MANY other problematic issues too.

On top of the millions wasted policing it at the expense of our civil liberties

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 Post subject: Re: Illinois
PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 11:07 am 
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Don Tiny wrote:
shakes wrote:
hmm, if only there was some sort of non utilized taxable product that would add over $350 million a year to the State's pockets.

It's baffling to me why facts about both the drug as well as the potential financial boon are blithely ignored ... and I'm not actively pro-marijuana either. It's got to be based on a combo of ignorant people (purposeful or otherwise) and politicians on the take ... then again, that answers MANY other problematic issues too.


It would not be good for the Republican interests of law enforcement and big Pharma.

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 Post subject: Re: Illinois
PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 11:45 am 
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I'm certainly not the best financial poster child, but I'm a lot better having learned the hard way.

Illinois can only change if 2 things happen....1) the state completely shuts down 2) Chicago / Madigan get removed.

Yes, stopping political pensions would work but that will never happen. the only way IL gets fixed is if it completely shuts down and someone has to step in and bail it out. That someone would then have to completely force new sensible fiscal policy. I cannot see that ever happening. Too much greed and lifers working the system.

Yes, legalization would bring in huge revenue, but the machine would piss it away.

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 Post subject: Re: Illinois
PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 1:22 pm 
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wdelaney72 wrote:
I'm certainly not the best financial poster child, but I'm a lot better having learned the hard way.

Illinois can only change if 2 things happen....1) the state completely shuts down 2) Chicago / Madigan get removed.

Yes, stopping political pensions would work but that will never happen. the only way IL gets fixed is if it completely shuts down and someone has to step in and bail it out. That someone would then have to completely force new sensible fiscal policy. I cannot see that ever happening. Too much greed and lifers working the system.

Yes, legalization would bring in huge revenue, but the machine would piss it away.



That was my earlier point. Giving or creating more money to the monster without fixing it first is giving 10 grand to a coke addict with a gambling problem.

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 Post subject: Re: Illinois
PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 1:43 pm 
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wdelaney72 wrote:
I'm certainly not the best financial poster child, but I'm a lot better having learned the hard way.

Illinois can only change if 2 things happen....1) the state completely shuts down 2) Chicago / Madigan get removed.

Yes, stopping political pensions would work but that will never happen. the only way IL gets fixed is if it completely shuts down and someone has to step in and bail it out. That someone would then have to completely force new sensible fiscal policy. I cannot see that ever happening. Too much greed and lifers working the system.

Yes, legalization would bring in huge revenue, but the machine would piss it away.


Welcome to Kansas! And how's that working out after the "business first" government wet dream?!?

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 Post subject: Re: Illinois
PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 5:32 pm 
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pittmike wrote:
wdelaney72 wrote:
...Yes, legalization would bring in huge revenue, but the machine would piss it away.



That was my earlier point. Giving or creating more money to the monster without fixing it first is giving 10 grand to a coke addict with a gambling problem.


We have been down this road before. First the lottery and then riverboat gambling was supposed to save us all. Legalize pot all you want, without pension reform it will be stopgap at best.

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 Post subject: Re: Illinois
PostPosted: Sat Apr 22, 2017 3:53 pm 
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A week ago yesterday I e-filed our federal taxes and mailed our state. I have already received our fed refund but our supposedly broke state has yet to cash my payment check, a check they likely received Monday.

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 Post subject: Re: Illinois
PostPosted: Sat Apr 22, 2017 5:28 pm 
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Chilli Palmer wrote:
Can't wait to move out of Illinois. 3 more years and I'm out of this joint.

I am at 2. Just trying to decide where to move to based on how work is going (I can telework) and if I want to rent or buy until the next administration.

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