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PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 12:03 pm 
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shakes wrote:
likemarsen wrote:
IMU wrote:
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I have never understood why Jews in this country, so uniformly, support the Democratic party...the Democrats are the ones who, historically, refuse to acknowledge the existence of the land given to them by God (Israel)...

Almost as if they dismiss the notion because it seems so batshit crazy?


No, I take it as, many Jewish people are devout...some even interpret the Torah in its literal sense. So to have a political party that thinks your homeland doesn't exist, or that your people are living on on someone else's land (the Palestinians)(and support the Palestinians in fighting for that land against your own people), yet they so devoutly follow that political party is mind boggling.


Jews are starting to leave the democratic party as its only been recently that the party has shown its hatred for Israel. My parents both voted Trump after voting democrat in previous elections.


They are leaving because evangelicals are embracing them in order to welcome Jesus back to the Holy Land. Sounds reasonable.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 12:04 pm 
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IMU wrote:
shakes wrote:
IMU wrote:
I don't think you have a good read on American Jews. They bust out the Israel flags when it is fashionable. They don't give a shit, really.


Speaking of not having a good read I submit the above nonsense as exhibit #1.

How was your bacon and egg bagel this morning?



So let me guess, you're saying that Jews don't care about Israel unless they keep kosher?


I thought you had grown up a bit, but you really are an ignorant knob.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 12:07 pm 
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Every Jew I met has a strong emotional connection to Israel. It is quite admirable.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 12:08 pm 
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denisdman wrote:
Every Jew I met has a strong emotional connection to Israel. It is quite admirable.



not so fast! Do those "jews" eat cheeseburgers?

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 12:13 pm 
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formerlyknownas wrote:
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We paid for all the improvements. Let's get a two-for going as Puerto Rico statehood talks progress. The 52 United States of America sounds real good.

Ain't we paying for some of their weapons? Or didn't we, at one point?


The United States conducted an emergency restocking of their arsenal during the Yom Kippur war in response to Golda Meir insinuating nuclear weapons were being considered.

It wad actually a fascinating military logistics example from a historical standpoint. It exposed many weak points in the USAF airlift capabilities and led to the implementation of better in flight refueling capabilities.

What the Israelis paid for those arms and at what discount is unclear.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 12:19 pm 
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good dolphin wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
IMU wrote:
likemarsen wrote:
I have never understood why Jews in this country, so uniformly, support the Democratic party...the Democrats are the ones who, historically, refuse to acknowledge the existence of the land given to them by God (Israel)...

Almost as if they dismiss the notion because it seems so batshit crazy?



Of course it's crazy. But one can support the idea that a group of people who have been run out of every country where they've ever lived (and that group ain't Muslims) should be able to maintain a small slice of land in a desert where they made all the improvements without bringing fantasy into it.


Wait, you think Judaism is LESS fantastical than Christianity?



They're based on the same mythology/folk tales. They are both equally fantastic.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 12:22 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
IMU wrote:
likemarsen wrote:
I have never understood why Jews in this country, so uniformly, support the Democratic party...the Democrats are the ones who, historically, refuse to acknowledge the existence of the land given to them by God (Israel)...

Almost as if they dismiss the notion because it seems so batshit crazy?



Of course it's crazy. But one can support the idea that a group of people who have been run out of every country where they've ever lived (and that group ain't Muslims) should be able to maintain a small slice of land in a desert where they made all the improvements without bringing fantasy into it.


Wait, you think Judaism is LESS fantastical than Christianity?



They're based on the same mythology/folk tales. They are both equally fantastic.


Judaism is based in the mythology. Christianity is informed by it. From your perspective Christianity is based in a different mythology.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 12:25 pm 
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good dolphin wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
IMU wrote:
likemarsen wrote:
I have never understood why Jews in this country, so uniformly, support the Democratic party...the Democrats are the ones who, historically, refuse to acknowledge the existence of the land given to them by God (Israel)...

Almost as if they dismiss the notion because it seems so batshit crazy?



Of course it's crazy. But one can support the idea that a group of people who have been run out of every country where they've ever lived (and that group ain't Muslims) should be able to maintain a small slice of land in a desert where they made all the improvements without bringing fantasy into it.


Wait, you think Judaism is LESS fantastical than Christianity?



They're based on the same mythology/folk tales. They are both equally fantastic.


Judaism is based in the mythology. Christianity is informed by it. From your perspective Christianity is based in a different mythology.


Oh, you mean a guy multiplying fish and loaves, walking on water, and coming back to life? Yeah, that part is different. The Jews think the guy who can do that shit hasn't arrived yet.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 12:27 pm 
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 12:30 pm 
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denisdman wrote:
Every Jew I met has a strong emotional connection to Israel. It is quite admirable.

They do not. But they'll tell you they do.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 12:32 pm 
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IMU wrote:
denisdman wrote:
Every Jew I met has a strong emotional connection to Israel. It is quite admirable.

They do not. But they'll tell you they do.


You're quite the expert. I guess I just take what they say and do at face value.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 12:33 pm 
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That's a big mistake in life.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 12:39 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
[

Of course it's crazy. But one can support the idea that a group of people who have been run out of every country where they've ever lived (and that group ain't Muslims) should be able to maintain a small slice of land in a desert where they made all the improvements without bringing fantasy into it.


Wait, you think Judaism is LESS fantastical than Christianity?[/quote]


They're based on the same mythology/folk tales. They are both equally fantastic.[/quote]

Judaism is based in the mythology. Christianity is informed by it. From your perspective Christianity is based in a different mythology.[/quote]

Oh, you mean a guy multiplying fish and loaves, walking on water, and coming back to life? Yeah, that part is different. The Jews think the guy who can do that shit hasn't arrived yet.[/quote]

Yeah, I mean the part about the guy who gave the religion its name.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 12:42 pm 
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IMU wrote:
denisdman wrote:
Every Jew I met has a strong emotional connection to Israel. It is quite admirable.

They do not. But they'll tell you they do.


Image

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 12:45 pm 
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I do agree with IMU in part that if you are not a religious Jew you do not share in the full vision of Israel.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 12:46 pm 
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IMU wrote:
That's a big mistake in life.


I'll respectfully disagree. You may be jaded from too much time on the Internet.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 12:46 pm 
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good dolphin wrote:
Yeah, I mean the part about the guy who gave the religion its name.



Well, the guy's name was actually Jesus of Nazareth. I'm pretty sure "Christ" comes from the ancient Greek word that means "anointed".

Seacrest, why do I have to explain this? What do they teach these guys at those Jesuit schools?

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 12:53 pm 
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good dolphin wrote:
I do agree with IMU in part that if you are not a religious Jew you do not share in the full vision of Israel.



That's certainly true if you're basing things on some ancient religious texts, but you're touching on the exact difference between Muslims and followers of the other two Abrahamic religions, particularly Judaism which- aside from a handful of nutjobs trying to do a rough rebuild of the Temple Mount and building villages because they believe land was deeded to them by G_d- has become largely secular and cultural rather than truly religious. There are many Jewish atheists. The concept of a "Muslim atheist" cannot and will not exist.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 12:54 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
Yeah, I mean the part about the guy who gave the religion its name.



Well, the guy's name was actually Jesus of Nazareth. I'm pretty sure "Christ" comes from the ancient Greek word that means "anointed".

Seacrest, why do I have to explain this? What do they teach these guys at those Jesuit schools?


Wrong, the guy's name was actually Joshua bar Joseph. I guessed you missed that in shop class at Tech.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 12:57 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
I do agree with IMU in part that if you are not a religious Jew you do not share in the full vision of Israel.



That's certainly true if you're basing things on some ancient religious texts, but you're touching on the exact difference between Muslims and followers of the other two Abrahamic religions, particularly Judaism which- aside from a handful of nutjobs trying to do a rough rebuild of the Temple Mount and building villages because they believe land was deeded to them by G_d- has become largely secular and cultural rather than truly religious. There are many Jewish atheists. The concept of a "Muslim atheist" cannot and will not exist.


if I'm basing things? You think Israel was founded in secularism?

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 1:07 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
There are many Jewish atheists.


Usually, their first name is "Doctor."

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 1:07 pm 
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good dolphin wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
Yeah, I mean the part about the guy who gave the religion its name.



Well, the guy's name was actually Jesus of Nazareth. I'm pretty sure "Christ" comes from the ancient Greek word that means "anointed".

Seacrest, why do I have to explain this? What do they teach these guys at those Jesuit schools?


Wrong, the guy's name was actually Joshua bar Joseph. I guessed you missed that in shop class at Tech.


:lol:

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 1:10 pm 
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good dolphin wrote:
I do agree with IMU in part that if you are not a religious Jew you do not share in the full vision of Israel.


what does that even mean, the full vision of Israel? And who are you to decide what that is and which Jews qualify?

You're coming off a little full genius as well.


Fact is you (and IMU) have no clue how Jews feel about Israel.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 1:10 pm 
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good dolphin wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
I do agree with IMU in part that if you are not a religious Jew you do not share in the full vision of Israel.



That's certainly true if you're basing things on some ancient religious texts, but you're touching on the exact difference between Muslims and followers of the other two Abrahamic religions, particularly Judaism which- aside from a handful of nutjobs trying to do a rough rebuild of the Temple Mount and building villages because they believe land was deeded to them by G_d- has become largely secular and cultural rather than truly religious. There are many Jewish atheists. The concept of a "Muslim atheist" cannot and will not exist.


if I'm basing things? You think Israel was founded in secularism?


I think that's a more complicated question than you believe. I certainly don't think it was founded in devoutness. It was mainly founded because Hitler had failed at wiping out Jews in Europe and Arabs were forcing them into dhimmitude in the Middle East.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 1:19 pm 
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shakes wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
I do agree with IMU in part that if you are not a religious Jew you do not share in the full vision of Israel.


what does that even mean, the full vision of Israel? And who are you to decide what that is and which Jews qualify?

You're coming off a little full genius as well.


Fact is you (and IMU) have no clue how Jews feel about Israel.


I don't profess to know but I pose the same question I did to Joe, do you think Israel was founded in secularism?

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 1:22 pm 
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good dolphin wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
I do agree with IMU in part that if you are not a religious Jew you do not share in the full vision of Israel.



That's certainly true if you're basing things on some ancient religious texts, but you're touching on the exact difference between Muslims and followers of the other two Abrahamic religions, particularly Judaism which- aside from a handful of nutjobs trying to do a rough rebuild of the Temple Mount and building villages because they believe land was deeded to them by G_d- has become largely secular and cultural rather than truly religious. There are many Jewish atheists. The concept of a "Muslim atheist" cannot and will not exist.


if I'm basing things? You think Israel was founded in secularism?

actually, yes it was founded in secularism.

David Ben Gurion, the 1st PM of Israel? Atheist.
Heck, 4 of Israel's 13 PMs have been atheists. Have we had even 1 atheist US President?

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 1:24 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
I do agree with IMU in part that if you are not a religious Jew you do not share in the full vision of Israel.



That's certainly true if you're basing things on some ancient religious texts, but you're touching on the exact difference between Muslims and followers of the other two Abrahamic religions, particularly Judaism which- aside from a handful of nutjobs trying to do a rough rebuild of the Temple Mount and building villages because they believe land was deeded to them by G_d- has become largely secular and cultural rather than truly religious. There are many Jewish atheists. The concept of a "Muslim atheist" cannot and will not exist.


if I'm basing things? You think Israel was founded in secularism?


I think that's a more complicated question than you believe. I certainly don't think it was founded in devoutness. It was mainly founded because Hitler had failed at wiping out Jews in Europe and Arabs were forcing them into dhimmitude in the Middle East.


Maybe I am posing the question incorrectly. No, I don't think the countries that ushered in its existence cared about the religious implications.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 1:25 pm 
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good dolphin wrote:
shakes wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
I do agree with IMU in part that if you are not a religious Jew you do not share in the full vision of Israel.


what does that even mean, the full vision of Israel? And who are you to decide what that is and which Jews qualify?

You're coming off a little full genius as well.


Fact is you (and IMU) have no clue how Jews feel about Israel.


I don't profess to know but I pose the same question I did to Joe, do you think Israel was founded in secularism?


what does how Israel was founded have to do with the question at hand of how Jews today feel about Israel?

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 1:25 pm 
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Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
I do agree with IMU in part that if you are not a religious Jew you do not share in the full vision of Israel.



That's certainly true if you're basing things on some ancient religious texts, but you're touching on the exact difference between Muslims and followers of the other two Abrahamic religions, particularly Judaism which- aside from a handful of nutjobs trying to do a rough rebuild of the Temple Mount and building villages because they believe land was deeded to them by G_d- has become largely secular and cultural rather than truly religious. There are many Jewish atheists. The concept of a "Muslim atheist" cannot and will not exist.


if I'm basing things? You think Israel was founded in secularism?

actually, yes it was founded in secularism.

David Ben Gurion, the 1st PM of Israel? Atheist.
Heck, 4 of Israel's 13 PMs have been atheists. Have we had even 1 atheist US President?

Lincoln was (at least an agnostic)

Is Zionism an ethnic or religious movement? Seems to be both.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 1:27 pm 
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formerlyknownas wrote:
Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
I do agree with IMU in part that if you are not a religious Jew you do not share in the full vision of Israel.



That's certainly true if you're basing things on some ancient religious texts, but you're touching on the exact difference between Muslims and followers of the other two Abrahamic religions, particularly Judaism which- aside from a handful of nutjobs trying to do a rough rebuild of the Temple Mount and building villages because they believe land was deeded to them by G_d- has become largely secular and cultural rather than truly religious. There are many Jewish atheists. The concept of a "Muslim atheist" cannot and will not exist.


if I'm basing things? You think Israel was founded in secularism?

actually, yes it was founded in secularism.

David Ben Gurion, the 1st PM of Israel? Atheist.
Heck, 4 of Israel's 13 PMs have been atheists. Have we had even 1 atheist US President?

Lincoln was (at least an agnostic)

Is Zionism an ethnic or religious movement? Seems to be both.

ethnic, the movement was founded by Herzl, an atheist himself.

In fact, religious Jews were the last to come around on the movement as they believed only G-d (as they would write it) could establish a nation in the Jewish homeland. They believed it sacrilegious for men who were openly atheist to be doing so in the name of the Jewish people.

Most religious Jews didn't come around to the idea until after the Holocaust when it was clear that they needed Israel as a lifeboat for their people.

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Last edited by Ogie Oglethorpe on Tue Jun 27, 2017 1:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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