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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 8:23 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
FF's statement is true. Some of these people live in a world that doesn't exist. I'd love it too if we could artificially suppress prices in times like these, but it's simply impossible without repercussions. Sometimes they think just because something seems humane that it MUST be possible.

I have no problem with the government paying for these things at market value and giving them to those in need, but they can't simply tell suppliers what they can and cannot charge.

The argument becomes a bit different when talking about patent laws and things like that. That little weasel who charges a billion dollars for AIDS medication should be taken to a firing squad.


There's a larger discussion here about what kind of society we really want to have. The reason market capitalism works is because man is greedy by nature. And that's the same reason communism has never worked and ultimately always has led down a path to dictatorship and murder. Of course, market capitalists love to point that out while ignoring the atrocities wrought by their own system, the most obvious being slavery.

The problem with centrist Democrats is that things are too good for them to really want change. Can we base a society on generosity rather than greed? It's going to be very difficult when accumulation is one of our primary values. I would suggest the first step toward a better way would be to outlaw advertising.



You mean just prescription drugs or everything? Because everything is kind of weird.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 8:23 am 
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pittmike wrote:
Nas wrote:
pittmike wrote:
Nas wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
FF's statement is true. Some of these people live in a world that doesn't exist. I'd love it too if we could artificially suppress prices in times like these, but it's simply impossible without repercussions. Sometimes they think just because something seems humane that it MUST be possible.

I have no problem with the government paying for these things at market value and giving them to those in need, but they can't simply tell suppliers what they can and cannot charge.

The argument becomes a bit different when talking about patent laws and things like that. That little weasel who charges a billion dollars for AIDS medication should be taken to a firing squad.


Why draw the line for medication? Their research and development is the reason the drug exists. Why shouldn't they be able to set the market?



That normally is true. In the case of the weasel or other old medicine/patent raiders not true.


Why penalize them because the government didn't make the investment?


Not following.


Leash and others believe that the market should dictate prices but want the government to step in for drugs. I don't think you can have it both ways. Drug dealers profits are just as important as the insurance company's if you don't agree with market controls.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 8:24 am 
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pittmike wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
FF's statement is true. Some of these people live in a world that doesn't exist. I'd love it too if we could artificially suppress prices in times like these, but it's simply impossible without repercussions. Sometimes they think just because something seems humane that it MUST be possible.

I have no problem with the government paying for these things at market value and giving them to those in need, but they can't simply tell suppliers what they can and cannot charge.

The argument becomes a bit different when talking about patent laws and things like that. That little weasel who charges a billion dollars for AIDS medication should be taken to a firing squad.


There's a larger discussion here about what kind of society we really want to have. The reason market capitalism works is because man is greedy by nature. And that's the same reason communism has never worked and ultimately always has led down a path to dictatorship and murder. Of course, market capitalists love to point that out while ignoring the atrocities wrought by their own system, the most obvious being slavery.

The problem with centrist Democrats is that things are too good for them to really want change. Can we base a society on generosity rather than greed? It's going to be very difficult when accumulation is one of our primary values. I would suggest the first step toward a better way would be to outlaw advertising.



You mean just prescription drugs or everything? Because everything is kind of weird.


How much shit do you have that you don't need? Do you ever wonder why you have it? Why it's important to you?

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 8:25 am 
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Nas wrote:
pittmike wrote:
Nas wrote:
pittmike wrote:
Nas wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
FF's statement is true. Some of these people live in a world that doesn't exist. I'd love it too if we could artificially suppress prices in times like these, but it's simply impossible without repercussions. Sometimes they think just because something seems humane that it MUST be possible.

I have no problem with the government paying for these things at market value and giving them to those in need, but they can't simply tell suppliers what they can and cannot charge.

The argument becomes a bit different when talking about patent laws and things like that. That little weasel who charges a billion dollars for AIDS medication should be taken to a firing squad.


Why draw the line for medication? Their research and development is the reason the drug exists. Why shouldn't they be able to set the market?



That normally is true. In the case of the weasel or other old medicine/patent raiders not true.


Why penalize them because the government didn't make the investment?


Not following.


Leash and others believe that the market should dictate prices but want the government to step in forugs. I don't think you can have it both ways. Drug dealers profits are just as important as the insurance company's if you don't agree with market controls.


Gotcha.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 8:26 am 
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Nas wrote:
pittmike wrote:
Nas wrote:
pittmike wrote:
Nas wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
FF's statement is true. Some of these people live in a world that doesn't exist. I'd love it too if we could artificially suppress prices in times like these, but it's simply impossible without repercussions. Sometimes they think just because something seems humane that it MUST be possible.

I have no problem with the government paying for these things at market value and giving them to those in need, but they can't simply tell suppliers what they can and cannot charge.

The argument becomes a bit different when talking about patent laws and things like that. That little weasel who charges a billion dollars for AIDS medication should be taken to a firing squad.


Why draw the line for medication? Their research and development is the reason the drug exists. Why shouldn't they be able to set the market?



That normally is true. In the case of the weasel or other old medicine/patent raiders not true.


Why penalize them because the government didn't make the investment?


Not following.


Leash and others believe that the market should dictate prices but want the government to step in forugs. I don't think you can have it both ways. Drug dealers profits are just as important as the insurance company's if you don't agree with market controls.


That's the thing. At some point you cross a line where it's no longer a free market. Then you have what we have now- crony capitalism.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 8:27 am 
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The advertising is most obvious which kids. They see an add for donething and then need to have something they didn't know existed 45 seconds prior. Usually doesn't have the same impact as kids but it's there. Keeping up with Joneses theory.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 8:29 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
FF's statement is true. Some of these people live in a world that doesn't exist. I'd love it too if we could artificially suppress prices in times like these, but it's simply impossible without repercussions. Sometimes they think just because something seems humane that it MUST be possible.

I have no problem with the government paying for these things at market value and giving them to those in need, but they can't simply tell suppliers what they can and cannot charge.

The argument becomes a bit different when talking about patent laws and things like that. That little weasel who charges a billion dollars for AIDS medication should be taken to a firing squad.


There's a larger discussion here about what kind of society we really want to have. The reason market capitalism works is because man is greedy by nature. And that's the same reason communism has never worked and ultimately always has led down a path to dictatorship and murder. Of course, market capitalists love to point that out while ignoring the atrocities wrought by their own system, the most obvious being slavery.

The problem with centrist Democrats is that things are too good for them to really want change. Can we base a society on generosity rather than greed? It's going to be very difficult when accumulation is one of our primary values. I would suggest the first step toward a better way would be to outlaw advertising.
The quality of life of every person has increased exponentially in the past 50-100 years though. Some do better than others but if you compare the life of your average poor person now compared to what my poor grandparents lived in it is completely different.

The biggest flaw in our current society is that we don't reward work done by the lowest parts of our economic spectrum and it is creeping into the middle class now too. But hey, it gets annoying that I keep mentioning how wrong it is that a person can work a full time job and not be able to afford to feed, shelter, and clothe themselves.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 8:34 am 
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Rick is right. Your average poor person now lives way better than Andrew Carnegie could have dreamed of living. Most of that is due to the free market and allowing and encouraging innovation for profit.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 8:41 am 
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FavreFan wrote:
First of all, that's not a thing. Prices are what the market dictates. Price gouging is only possible with government controls.

Second, why do you want to hurt people already suffering a catastrophe by making it even harder for them to obtain what they need?


The better term would be profiteers of tragedy and misery

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 8:43 am 
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Its a slippery slope especially when you flip from corporate gougers to a hilljack in southern GA loading his truck up with cases of water and driving to southern FL to sell them for 30-40 dollars a case.

He is making a killing, but would also have a very large overhead to bring that new supply into the afflicted area.

Is that still considered gouging?


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 8:43 am 
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leashyourkids wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
I'd say the only thing that really needs limits is gas. Make the rule that you can only charge a dollar over what the maximum price you charged for gasoline in the past two years. A scenario where all gas in Florida costs $45 a gallon today would make things much worse.


But if their cost is 40/gallon you can't cap what they charge or they just won't provide any.


oh, you think that sale price is based on cost

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 8:53 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
The biggest flaw in our current society is that we don't reward work done by the lowest parts of our economic spectrum and it is creeping into the middle class now too. But hey, it gets annoying that I keep mentioning how wrong it is that a person can work a full time job and not be able to afford to feed, shelter, and clothe themselves.


And how is that supposed to work in a global economy where slave labor is still available? Six weeks maternity leave for men and women and a twenty dollar minimum wage is nice, but when the guy controlling the means of production can use an eight year old Malaysian girl who makes no demands other than a bowl of rice each day, what do you think is going to happen? It will all be moot when automation makes the worker superfluous and then things will really get interesting.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 8:55 am 
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In the case of the Best Buy, they always sold water for that price because they sold it by the bottle next to the checkout. $1.79/bottle comes out to about $42/case. There was no storm-related gouging, just typical convenience-store gouging.

It's like walking into Speedway or Circle K and being pissed that the water, the Diet Pepsi, and the Doritos cost more there than at Costco.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 8:56 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
The biggest flaw in our current society is that we don't reward work done by the lowest parts of our economic spectrum and it is creeping into the middle class now too. But hey, it gets annoying that I keep mentioning how wrong it is that a person can work a full time job and not be able to afford to feed, shelter, and clothe themselves.


And how is that supposed to work in a global economy where slave labor is still available? Six weeks maternity leave for men and women and a twenty dollar minimum wage is nice, but when the guy controlling the means of production can use an eight year old Malaysian girl who makes no demands other than a bowl of rice each day, what do you think is going to happen? It will all be moot when automation makes the worker superfluous and then things will really get interesting.


#Protectionism

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 8:59 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
[
That's the thing. At some point you cross a line where it's no longer a free market. Then you have what we have now- crony capitalism.


I'm no economist but it's my understanding that a disaster relief situation wouldn't be considered a free market either.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 8:59 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
The biggest flaw in our current society is that we don't reward work done by the lowest parts of our economic spectrum and it is creeping into the middle class now too. But hey, it gets annoying that I keep mentioning how wrong it is that a person can work a full time job and not be able to afford to feed, shelter, and clothe themselves.


And how is that supposed to work in a global economy where slave labor is still available? Six weeks maternity leave for men and women and a twenty dollar minimum wage is nice, but when the guy controlling the means of production can use an eight year old Malaysian girl who makes no demands other than a bowl of rice each day, what do you think is going to happen? It will all be moot when automation makes the worker superfluous and then things will really get interesting.

I think it's already interesting. The labor in your example will almost certainly be a net positive for the laborer, the corporation, and the consumer, but most people would agree it's wrong and it's hard to blame them or disagree with them.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 9:00 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
The biggest flaw in our current society is that we don't reward work done by the lowest parts of our economic spectrum and it is creeping into the middle class now too. But hey, it gets annoying that I keep mentioning how wrong it is that a person can work a full time job and not be able to afford to feed, shelter, and clothe themselves.


And how is that supposed to work in a global economy where slave labor is still available? Six weeks maternity leave for men and women and a twenty dollar minimum wage is nice, but when the guy controlling the means of production can use an eight year old Malaysian girl who makes no demands other than a bowl of rice each day, what do you think is going to happen? It will all be moot when automation makes the worker superfluous and then things will really get interesting.
Yet you asked why we couldn't build a society based on generosity? :lol:

Workers already lose out to workers who just want a bowl of rice. They've already lost those jobs. Even at $7/hr they lose to that so it is useless to worry about.

Mark it down rpb! More liberal points for me!

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 9:06 am 
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The facts do remain that price controls provide no incentive to increase supply, which in turn leads to shortages. This is Micro 101

If you don't believe me, look no further than the housing shortages in markets with rent controls.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 9:12 am 
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leashyourkids wrote:
Some libtards believe businesses have an obligation not to charge what the market dictates.


Where does this "obligation" come from?

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 9:15 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
The biggest flaw in our current society is that we don't reward work done by the lowest parts of our economic spectrum and it is creeping into the middle class now too. But hey, it gets annoying that I keep mentioning how wrong it is that a person can work a full time job and not be able to afford to feed, shelter, and clothe themselves.


And how is that supposed to work in a global economy where slave labor is still available? Six weeks maternity leave for men and women and a twenty dollar minimum wage is nice, but when the guy controlling the means of production can use an eight year old Malaysian girl who makes no demands other than a bowl of rice each day, what do you think is going to happen? It will all be moot when automation makes the worker superfluous and then things will really get interesting.


Unless the machines start feeling a compulsion to have, they will not be employed for long if the consumer has not money.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 9:17 am 
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 9:21 am 
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Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
The facts do remain that price controls provide no incentive to increase supply, which in turn leads to shortages. This is Micro 101

If you don't believe me, look no further than the housing shortages in markets with rent controls.
It depends what we are talking about. Many shortages are more about supply chain than it is about incentive. It's not like grocery stores and gas stations don't have a profit motive currently to sell as much as they can at normal prices. The gas shortages in NY had more to do with ports being closed and therefore gas not being able to make it by water. They could have multiplied the price by 10 and it wouldn't have led to more gas being there.

The free market isn't really going to have an impact before a storm like this. There can only be so much product available for the unpredictable nature of these storms. Maybe OgieCorp would have a huge warehouse filled with bottled water in Florida to sell at $20 a bottle today but that is unlikely given the rarity of massive hurricanes hitting a specific area. If you were running that business in Miami it would have been many years since you did anything with that water.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 9:40 am 
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Does paying $9 for a lukewarm 12 ozs of Miller Lite at Soldier Field count?

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 9:48 am 
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good dolphin wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
The biggest flaw in our current society is that we don't reward work done by the lowest parts of our economic spectrum and it is creeping into the middle class now too. But hey, it gets annoying that I keep mentioning how wrong it is that a person can work a full time job and not be able to afford to feed, shelter, and clothe themselves.


And how is that supposed to work in a global economy where slave labor is still available? Six weeks maternity leave for men and women and a twenty dollar minimum wage is nice, but when the guy controlling the means of production can use an eight year old Malaysian girl who makes no demands other than a bowl of rice each day, what do you think is going to happen? It will all be moot when automation makes the worker superfluous and then things will really get interesting.


Unless the machines start feeling a compulsion to have, they will not be employed for long if the consumer has not money.



That's why it will be interesting. Henry Ford understood his employee was also his customer. I'm not sure the modern executive who is taking heat from a board obsessing over stock price can see that far ahead.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 9:50 am 
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Henry Ford, hated Jews.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 9:58 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
That's why it will be interesting. Henry Ford understood his employee was also his customer. I'm not sure the modern executive who is taking heat from a board obsessing over stock price can see that far ahead.
The minimum guaranteed income is almost a certainty eventually. It's just a question of when it happens. I'm sure you'll complain about it though because it will hurt businesses but let people feed, clothe, and shelter themselves.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 10:14 am 
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Caller Bob wrote:
Henry Ford, hated Jews.



You say that as if it made him some kind of oddity.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 10:40 am 
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Hope this is real...

Image


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 10:46 am 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
Hope this is real...

Image



Definitely real:

Image

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 11:27 am 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
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RPB, get a CFMB fund going to buy that shit back. Word on the street is it's on eBay now. I'm in for $1.50

Yea, top bid is $100,100 and hopefully whoever it is will just release it.

Credit to Rza, it was a novel idea but it backfired.


http://www.ebay.com/itm/132319745117

The questions and answers are funny.

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