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 Post subject: Re: USMNT
PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 8:53 am 
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America wrote:
You will never get boys past the age of about 10 to play soccer because their friends will call them gay. It just isn't going to happen. Ever.

Patrick Kane...that's your example. Knowing what we know about Patrick Kane do you think he would want at all to be associated with such a gay sport? Like do you think "the beautiful game" played by a bunch of lanky Europeans who hold hands and kiss each other like burritos would appeal to somebody like Patrick Kane?

Never.


Your trolling effort is going poorly today.

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 Post subject: Re: USMNT
PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 8:56 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Curious Hair wrote:
Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
conns7901 wrote:
US Soccer fans think we are not world elite because of the youth training facilities they have in Europe per twitter. I think it is because it is 4th or 5th in the pecking order for boys in the US.

^this

The US has plenty of athletes who could build quite a team if it was the sport they focused on. Instead of soccer, our premier athletes are playing baseball, football, basketball, and yes even hockey. I'd bet Patrick Kane would be one hell of a soccer player if that was his sport.


That's why our women's team is so good: no football and not much basketball to divert elite women athletes.
The rest of the world also doesn't care at all about women's soccer. Then again, the United States really doesn't either until we can wrap it in a flag and celebrate our status as greatest nation in the history of the world as proven by women's soccer.


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 Post subject: Re: USMNT
PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 9:08 am 
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I see more soccer being played by kids than any other sport. BY FAR.

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 Post subject: Re: USMNT
PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 9:11 am 
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KDdidit wrote:
Eh, Bradley was a step below world class at Roma and he's only 30. I think it's fair to say the MLS experience did him no favors. Yeah the Carribean guys got better in MLS, they'd probably have gotten even better if they played in Serie A.

But expecting MLS to be at the level of Serie A at this point is just unrealistic. I don't think it makes much sense to fire Garber on that basis.

And yeah Bradley did fine in Roma, but he played poorly in the last World Cup and there was over a year of him bumbling around during this campaign. The reason he kept starting was as much as because there was no one to challenge him for the spot as it was a matter of just hoping he'd magically regain his form from Italy.


Last edited by ZephMarshack on Wed Oct 11, 2017 9:15 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: USMNT
PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 9:14 am 
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Hatchetman wrote:
I see more soccer being played by kids than any other sport. BY FAR.
It's always dominated the under 10 crowd. The same was true in the 80s and 90s. It's the only team sport you can play passably with skills that most 2 years olds have. As they get older, they move on to other sports though.

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 Post subject: Re: USMNT
PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 9:15 am 
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Hatchetman wrote:
I see more soccer being played by kids than any other sport. BY FAR.

They've been saying this for 20+ years. Eventually kids grow up and move on to real sports that won't get them laughed at. And now what? On top of being the gay sport its the sport of national humiliation. Nobody will want to play it. It's dead.


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 Post subject: Re: USMNT
PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 9:18 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Hatchetman wrote:
I see more soccer being played by kids than any other sport. BY FAR.
It's always dominated the under 10 crowd. The same was true in the 80s and 90s. It's the only team sport you can play passably with skills that most 2 years olds have. As they get older, they move on to other sports though.
Correct. And at 4 years old, the overwhelming majority of them are not really "playing" soccer. Its socialization and teaching kids that sometimes adults who aren't Mom & Dad are actually in charge.

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 Post subject: Re: USMNT
PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 9:19 am 
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You are all wrong!!! Soccer in the US is in a terrible state because of the limited talent pool due to white privilege. Only rich white people can play soccer........at least thats what I heard the update person say on the score last night.

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 Post subject: Re: USMNT
PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 9:22 am 
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At least in my community (Oak Park) I don't think that is true. I suspect more high school age kids play soccer than any other sport. Though there are MANY options...ultimate frisbee even.

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 Post subject: Re: USMNT
PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 9:25 am 
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Soccer will be fine as the niche sport that it currently is. It's never taking over the main three and it never was.

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 Post subject: Re: USMNT
PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 9:36 am 
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enigma wrote:
Until the US gets close to the skill of the elite nations, they will never be elite.

Strong take.

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 Post subject: Re: USMNT
PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 9:36 am 
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Urlacher's missing neck wrote:
You are all wrong!!! Soccer in the US is in a terrible state because of the limited talent pool due to white privilege. Only rich white people can play soccer........at least thats what I heard the update person say on the score last night.


Haha. Dicaro said that? Isn't the reason soccer is the most popular world sport because any poor kid can play it and it doesn't take being a rich elite white person to prevail?

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 Post subject: Re: USMNT
PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 9:38 am 
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I'm not keyed in on the economics of youth soccer but I suppose it's likely that playing on good teams has gotten very expensive, not unlike baseball (though nowhere as cost-prohibitive as hockey has gotten, a very serious problem that the NHL does not seem to give a sliver of a shit about).

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 Post subject: Re: USMNT
PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 9:41 am 
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The problem is soccer is pay to play in America.


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 Post subject: Re: USMNT
PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 9:43 am 
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ZephMarshack wrote:
KDdidit wrote:
Eh, Bradley was a step below world class at Roma and he's only 30. I think it's fair to say the MLS experience did him no favors. Yeah the Carribean guys got better in MLS, they'd probably have gotten even better if they played in Serie A.

But expecting MLS to be at the level of Serie A at this point is just unrealistic. I don't think it makes much sense to fire Garber on that basis.

And yeah Bradley did fine in Roma, but he played poorly in the last World Cup and there was over a year of him bumbling around during this campaign. The reason he kept starting was as much as because there was no one to challenge him for the spot as it was a matter of just hoping he'd magically regain his form from Italy.


I'm not saying MLS should be as good as Serie A, I'm saying players good enough to play overseas and picking MLS instead is a problem. As I said, I don't blame the players for coming over or MLS for signing them, just understand it hurts the NT. Firing Garber is due to needless MLS over expansion and that the league's strategy is hope to continue being propped up by the generosity of some rich benefactors and not actually have a real plan.

Soccer haters are like vegans, they look for every opportunity to tell you and just can't wait to identify themselves as such, even though nobody cares.


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 Post subject: Re: USMNT
PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 9:43 am 
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The best thing about soccer was it was cheap equipment wise. The problem is space to play. I’d imagine the travel teams are expensive but soccer is pretty distant as a sport out here. Haven’t played for 20 plus years but still have the last pair of shoes I bought.


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 Post subject: Re: USMNT
PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 9:43 am 
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US Rep Brendan Boyle‏Verified account @RepBrendanBoyle
I was really disappointed the USA men's team didn't qualify for the World Cup. Then I remembered I couldn't care less about soccer.


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You’re why the world hates us

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 Post subject: Re: USMNT
PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 9:45 am 
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KDdidit wrote:
Soccer haters are like vegans, they look for every opportunity to tell you and just can't wait to identify themselves as such, even though nobody cares.
Well, soccer lovers are also pretty obnoxious about it.

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 Post subject: Re: USMNT
PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 9:48 am 
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KDdidit wrote:
ZephMarshack wrote:
KDdidit wrote:
Eh, Bradley was a step below world class at Roma and he's only 30. I think it's fair to say the MLS experience did him no favors. Yeah the Carribean guys got better in MLS, they'd probably have gotten even better if they played in Serie A.

But expecting MLS to be at the level of Serie A at this point is just unrealistic. I don't think it makes much sense to fire Garber on that basis.

And yeah Bradley did fine in Roma, but he played poorly in the last World Cup and there was over a year of him bumbling around during this campaign. The reason he kept starting was as much as because there was no one to challenge him for the spot as it was a matter of just hoping he'd magically regain his form from Italy.


I'm not saying MLS should be as good as Serie A, I'm saying players good enough to play overseas and picking MLS instead is a problem. As I said, I don't blame the players for coming over or MLS for signing them, just understand it hurts the NT. Firing Garber is due to needless MLS over expansion and that the league's strategy is hope to continue being propped up by the generosity of some rich benefactors and not actually have a real plan.

Soccer haters are like vegans, they look for every opportunity to tell you and just can't wait to identify themselves as such, even though nobody cares.

The expansion issue is tricky just because there are so many cities that could plausibly support MLS teams. The ideal solution would be a relegation system (which would also IMO create greater incentives for improving the across the board level of play) but it's just completely antithetical to how any American sports owner ever wants to operate.


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 Post subject: Re: USMNT
PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 9:49 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
KDdidit wrote:
Soccer haters are like vegans, they look for every opportunity to tell you and just can't wait to identify themselves as such, even though nobody cares.
Well, soccer lovers are also pretty obnoxious about it.


Ah yes, the old I'll vote republican because the democrats called white people racist strategy.

I'm afraid you're mistaken anyway, nobody likes soccer because it's gay.


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 Post subject: Re: USMNT
PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 10:12 am 
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this was a pretty good assessment of the failures of the "USMNT":

https://sports.yahoo.com/five-main-culprits-u-s-shocking-world-cup-failure-050218707.html

but here's the best part (and unfortunately, backs up what JDC has criticized):

Quote:
The U.S. player pool is strong. Stronger than it was two decades ago. But the obvious point is the broad one: That player pool is nowhere near what a nation of 325 million should be able to produce. The reasons for this are deep-seated and poisonous.

The main one is the youth soccer model that was established in the U.S. decades ago. Whereas talented young players in many other countries are given scholarships to soccer academies, the vast majority of children in the U.S. “pay to play.” This slashes the size of the player pool into a fraction of what it could be, because kids from low-income families can’t afford the hefty registration fees and travel-related costs. Elite coaching eludes them. The issue is far too complex for this forum, but it’s a major hindrance.

Talent identification and youth coaching have also been severely lacking. Scouting efforts ignore many under-served communities. Potential pros slip through the cracks at young ages. In many cases, kids aren’t educated properly, because they’re taught by teammates’ dads who don’t know the game. The kids, therefore, don’t develop the most relevant and applicable skills. Again, the root causes are impossible to explain in two paragraphs. But they’ve plagued the U.S. for years.


youth coaching, to me, is the biggest issue. Average Dad usually gets into coaching youth soccer (between the ages of say 4-9). they have no fucking clue how the game is played, nor do they care; they were never raised on the game themselves. youth football, baseball and basketball coaches are not such people.

so sure, it's fun for the kids to run around the field like headless chickens; that's what they'd do in any sport at that age. but the coaches at higher levels of pee-wee take the game more seriously, so the kids do. i don't think that happens in soccer nearly as much.


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 Post subject: Re: USMNT
PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 10:18 am 
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We had some Bulgarian ex-Pro as our soccer coach in college, god knows what he was even saying to us 1/2 the time and he only lasted 2 years. Probably knew a lot about soccer, but we couldn't tell.


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 Post subject: Re: USMNT
PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 10:30 am 
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Hatchetman wrote:
I see more soccer being played by kids than any other sport. BY FAR.

kids under 10. I played soccer until around that age. However, kids drop soccer after that point. The parents just sign them up to keep them busy with some activity.

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 Post subject: Re: USMNT
PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 10:33 am 
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I really don't care about soccer so I'm indifferent on what course of action they take, but they really should be speaking with folks at USA Hockey in order to ask how to build a youth development program that can then be put into place at every local field affiliated with them.

Just look at what USA Hockey has done over the last 20 years. There's a reason so many of the top players coming into the league each year are American born vs. what it was in the 90s when I was a kid. They've even built on that success with the American Development Model, a program so successful that Hockey Canada is looking to copy it this year for their youth.

I use hockey as the example as it's a sport not necessarily seen as one that the US dominates in, but youth development is changing that. I would wager that the generation that grows up watching Kane and Matthews will produce players who regularly beat Canada in the Olympics. We are seeing hints as this coming as we are starting to regularly beat them at the WJC.

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 Post subject: Re: USMNT
PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 10:37 am 
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Hockey Canada is fucking terrible and is killing the game at the NHL level because kids are taught from birth that mistakes are death.

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 Post subject: Re: USMNT
PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 10:39 am 
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Curious Hair wrote:
Hockey Canada is fucking terrible and is killing the game at the NHL level because kids are taught from birth that mistakes are death.

I agree they have ruined a generation. With that said, they have started to change course this year and are even adopting the cross-ice play for their youngest kids (you should see the Canadian parents freaking out over it in comment sections) :lol:

The cross-ice game is the best thing for under 10 hockey. Begrudgingly, Canada is realizing USA Hockey is ahead of the curve on youth development.

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 Post subject: Re: USMNT
PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 10:41 am 
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Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
I really don't care about soccer so I'm indifferent on what course of action they take, but they really should be speaking with folks at USA Hockey in order to ask how to build a youth development program that can then be put into place at every local field affiliated with them.

Just look at what USA Hockey has done over the last 20 years. There's a reason so many of the top players coming into the league each year are American born vs. what it was in the 90s when I was a kid. They've even built on that success with the American Development Model, a program so successful that Hockey Canada is looking to copy it this year for their youth.

I use hockey as the example as it's a sport not necessarily seen as one that the US dominates in, but youth development is changing that. I would wager that the generation that grows up watching Kane and Matthews will produce players who regularly beat Canada in the Olympics. We are seeing hints as this coming as we are starting to regularly beat them at the WJC.


Hockey is only played by people who can afford the 10k to 20k it cost a year at the "elite" level. It is also taken seriously in maybe 10 countries in the entire world.

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 Post subject: Re: USMNT
PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 10:43 am 
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conns7901 wrote:
Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
I really don't care about soccer so I'm indifferent on what course of action they take, but they really should be speaking with folks at USA Hockey in order to ask how to build a youth development program that can then be put into place at every local field affiliated with them.

Just look at what USA Hockey has done over the last 20 years. There's a reason so many of the top players coming into the league each year are American born vs. what it was in the 90s when I was a kid. They've even built on that success with the American Development Model, a program so successful that Hockey Canada is looking to copy it this year for their youth.

I use hockey as the example as it's a sport not necessarily seen as one that the US dominates in, but youth development is changing that. I would wager that the generation that grows up watching Kane and Matthews will produce players who regularly beat Canada in the Olympics. We are seeing hints as this coming as we are starting to regularly beat them at the WJC.


Hockey is only played by people who can afford the 10k to 20k it cost a year at the "elite" level. It is also taken seriously in maybe 10 countries in the entire world.

it's still a sport where the US program was largely seen as a joke until recent years. Even 1980 didn't change that. That may have sparked interest, but ultimately it has been youth development that has changed USA Hockey. It is no accident that the 3 young 1st/2nd forwards on the Hawks are all US born.

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 Post subject: Re: USMNT
PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 10:46 am 
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The game still isn't affordable to enough people. It can't just be a game of the upper middle class.

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 Post subject: Re: USMNT
PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 10:48 am 
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Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
conns7901 wrote:
Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
I really don't care about soccer so I'm indifferent on what course of action they take, but they really should be speaking with folks at USA Hockey in order to ask how to build a youth development program that can then be put into place at every local field affiliated with them.

Just look at what USA Hockey has done over the last 20 years. There's a reason so many of the top players coming into the league each year are American born vs. what it was in the 90s when I was a kid. They've even built on that success with the American Development Model, a program so successful that Hockey Canada is looking to copy it this year for their youth.

I use hockey as the example as it's a sport not necessarily seen as one that the US dominates in, but youth development is changing that. I would wager that the generation that grows up watching Kane and Matthews will produce players who regularly beat Canada in the Olympics. We are seeing hints as this coming as we are starting to regularly beat them at the WJC.


Hockey is only played by people who can afford the 10k to 20k it cost a year at the "elite" level. It is also taken seriously in maybe 10 countries in the entire world.

it's still a sport where the US program was largely seen as a joke until recent years. Even 1980 didn't change that. That may have sparked interest, but ultimately it has been youth development that has changed USA Hockey. It is no accident that the 3 young 1st/2nd forwards on the Hawks are all US born.


You are still competing against only a few countries in which Hockey is a priority sport. Hockey has grown, but is still played by a relatively small amount of kids. Much smaller than soccer.

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