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 Post subject: Re: Bobby Portis
PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 2:58 pm 
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I'd be fine if paxson choked hoiberg and portis punched forman. Niko could bring them all ice packs or something when it's done.

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 Post subject: Re: Bobby Portis
PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 3:00 pm 
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Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
Douchebag wrote:
Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
Frank Coztansa wrote:
GONE for 8 games.


3 failed drug tests for pot gets you 5 games, BTW., and Portis broke someone's face.

I wouldn't advocate for his ouster if he would have punched Niko and just rung his bell, it's the face fractures that warrant it. Strict liability of punching people in the face applies. That's what got Joe Mixon charged so heavily.

By all released accounts, Niko was the instigator and Portis was just defending himself.


Niko instigated with a shove, Portis escalated with a blow to the face. That in and of itself would be acceptable, but for the blow causing serious harm.

So defending yourself is wrong if you cause serious injury.

(Runs over to bump posts of cops who killed people in self defense and your defense of them)

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 Post subject: Re: Bobby Portis
PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 3:00 pm 
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Wasn't a guy charged with murder or something for punching a guy in the head during a hotel brawl, causing a brain bleed that lead to death?


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 Post subject: Re: Bobby Portis
PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 3:10 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
Douchebag wrote:
Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
Frank Coztansa wrote:
GONE for 8 games.


3 failed drug tests for pot gets you 5 games, BTW., and Portis broke someone's face.

I wouldn't advocate for his ouster if he would have punched Niko and just rung his bell, it's the face fractures that warrant it. Strict liability of punching people in the face applies. That's what got Joe Mixon charged so heavily.

By all released accounts, Niko was the instigator and Portis was just defending himself.


Niko instigated with a shove, Portis escalated with a blow to the face. That in and of itself would be acceptable, but for the blow causing serious harm.

So defending yourself is wrong if you cause serious injury.

(Runs over to bump posts of cops who killed people in self defense and your defense of them)


Police officers don't have a duty to retreat, and everyone can escalate force to stop a threat which inspires in them a reasonable fear of great bodily harm. None of that applies here, do better.


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 Post subject: Re: Bobby Portis
PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 3:11 pm 
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Terry's Peeps wrote:


kidding JLN


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 Post subject: Re: Bobby Portis
PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 3:13 pm 
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But can't Portis claim the same fear? He is listed as only 9 pounds heavier than Mirotic and we know that all Europeans can fight.

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 Post subject: Re: Bobby Portis
PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 3:19 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
But can't Portis claim the same fear? He is listed as only 9 pounds heavier than Mirotic and we know that all Europeans can fight.

Portis feared for his life! He had no choice other than to deliver serious bodily injury to Mirotic. If he had a badge, he would be justified in legally shooting him.

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 Post subject: Re: Bobby Portis
PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 3:33 pm 
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Portis should have aimed his punch at his leg or shoulder or something!


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 Post subject: Re: Bobby Portis
PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 3:36 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
But can't Portis claim the same fear? He is listed as only 9 pounds heavier than Mirotic and we know that all Europeans can fight.


Of great bodily harm? No.

Portis was justified in perceiving an "invitation to brawl", but the force he used in that brawl (as evidenced by broken facial bones) was unwarranted.


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 Post subject: Re: Bobby Portis
PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 3:39 pm 
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Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
But can't Portis claim the same fear? He is listed as only 9 pounds heavier than Mirotic and we know that all Europeans can fight.


Of great bodily harm? No.

Portis was justified in perceiving an "invitation to brawl", but the force he used in that brawl (as evidenced by broken facial bones) was unwarranted.

I can understand that but I don't understand how you can justify the use of deadly force by a police officer against an unarmed citizen as "fearing for their life" if two guys who are roughly the same weight and physically fit don't have the right to claim the same fear.

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 Post subject: Re: Bobby Portis
PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 3:43 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
But can't Portis claim the same fear? He is listed as only 9 pounds heavier than Mirotic and we know that all Europeans can fight.


Of great bodily harm? No.

Portis was justified in perceiving an "invitation to brawl", but the force he used in that brawl (as evidenced by broken facial bones) was unwarranted.

I can understand that but I don't understand how you can justify the use of deadly force by a police officer against an unarmed citizen as "fearing for their life" if two guys who are roughly the same weight and physically fit don't have the right to claim the same fear.


Because my labeling a use of deadly force by a police officer as justified requires a whole bunch of other facts that you aren't mentioning here. Also, Reasonable Officer, not Reasonable Person.


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 Post subject: Re: Bobby Portis
PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 3:49 pm 
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Fighting a teammate is supposed to be like fighting your brother. I have never tried to put my brother to sleep or fracture his face. Portis should be cut.

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 Post subject: Re: Bobby Portis
PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 3:49 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Bobby Portis
PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 3:59 pm 
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Nas wrote:
Fighting a teammate is supposed to be like fighting your brother. I have never tried to put my brother to sleep or fracture his face. Portis should be cut.


Not necessarily. We don't know what went down but if two unarmed, equally matched guys get into a fight then all bets are off. If you come at me and we start brawling, you or I may get a fractured face as a result, but I don't think either one of us could complain to the other about that given the circumstances. If i sucker punch you then that's a very different story. Don't know what happened though.

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 Post subject: Re: Bobby Portis
PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 4:27 pm 
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Doug Collins influence is already showing

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 Post subject: Re: Bobby Portis
PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 4:40 pm 
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Nas wrote:
Fighting a teammate is supposed to be like fighting your brother. I have never tried to put my brother to sleep or fracture his face. Portis should be cut.


Hell no.

He punched a guy in a fight.

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 Post subject: Re: Bobby Portis
PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 4:42 pm 
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If you have never tried to fracture your brothers face, are you really brothers?

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 Post subject: Re: Bobby Portis
PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 4:43 pm 
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Nas wrote:
Fighting a teammate is supposed to be like fighting your brother. I have never tried to put my brother to sleep or fracture his face. Portis should be cut.

the lie detector test determined that was a lie.

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 Post subject: Re: Bobby Portis
PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 5:06 pm 
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So I guess Markannen gets some extra minutes early on now? This is gonna be a disaster.


It'll take some time but he's going to be a damn good basketball player.


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 Post subject: Re: Bobby Portis
PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 5:06 pm 
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Terry's Peeps wrote:
Nas wrote:
Fighting a teammate is supposed to be like fighting your brother. I have never tried to put my brother to sleep or fracture his face. Portis should be cut.


Hell no.

He punched a guy in a fight.


How healthy is it to have a guy on your team who almost killed his teammate? Especially a guy who sucks.

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 Post subject: Re: Bobby Portis
PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 5:10 pm 
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Nas wrote:
Terry's Peeps wrote:
Nas wrote:
Fighting a teammate is supposed to be like fighting your brother. I have never tried to put my brother to sleep or fracture his face. Portis should be cut.


Hell no.

He punched a guy in a fight.


How healthy is it to have a guy on your team who almost killed his teammate? Especially a guy who sucks.


Why should it matter that Niko sucks!


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 Post subject: Re: Bobby Portis
PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 5:11 pm 
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Nas wrote:
Terry's Peeps wrote:
Nas wrote:
Fighting a teammate is supposed to be like fighting your brother. I have never tried to put my brother to sleep or fracture his face. Portis should be cut.


Hell no.

He punched a guy in a fight.



How healthy is it to have a guy on your team who almost killed his teammate? Especially a guy who sucks.


Gotta envy mirotic. Guy apparently starts something with a bench player on a rookie contract, loses the fight, and then becomes the sympathetic one in this whole mess.

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 Post subject: Re: Bobby Portis
PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 5:15 pm 
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veganfan21 wrote:
Nas wrote:
Terry's Peeps wrote:
Nas wrote:
Fighting a teammate is supposed to be like fighting your brother. I have never tried to put my brother to sleep or fracture his face. Portis should be cut.


Hell no.

He punched a guy in a fight.



How healthy is it to have a guy on your team who almost killed his teammate? Especially a guy who sucks.


Gotta envy mirotic. Guy apparently starts something with a bench player on a rookie contract, loses the fight, and then becomes the sympathetic one in this whole mess.


I would be willing to bet Portis started it. A guy like Mirotic is an easy target.

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 Post subject: Re: Bobby Portis
PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 5:30 pm 
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Most of the reports say Niko started it, some say they both did, but none that I've seen say Portis started it. No idea why the Bulls would want to protect Portis and not Mirotic, unless of course, the Bulls front office is a dumpster fire. No one would believe that though.


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 Post subject: Re: Bobby Portis
PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 10:12 pm 
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Quote:
Nikola Mirotic shoved Bobby Portis multiple times before Portis responded.
Paxson: “I wouldn’t call it a sucker punch at all. They were both aggressive leading up to it. But Bobby crossed a line.”

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 Post subject: Re: Bobby Portis
PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 10:23 pm 
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Yeah, if you shove a guy aggressively and then he knocks you the fuck out that's not a sucker punch.

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 Post subject: Re: Bobby Portis
PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 10:26 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
Yeah, if you shove a guy aggressively and then he knocks you the fuck out that's not a sucker punch.


Not at all.


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 Post subject: Re: Bobby Portis
PostPosted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 5:09 am 
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Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
But can't Portis claim the same fear? He is listed as only 9 pounds heavier than Mirotic and we know that all Europeans can fight.


Of great bodily harm? No.

Portis was justified in perceiving an "invitation to brawl", but the force he used in that brawl (as evidenced by broken facial bones) was unwarranted.




If you shove somebody you should expect to get cracked in the face.

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 Post subject: Re: Bobby Portis
PostPosted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 10:15 am 
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veganfan21 wrote:
Nas wrote:
Fighting a teammate is supposed to be like fighting your brother. I have never tried to put my brother to sleep or fracture his face. Portis should be cut.


Not necessarily. We don't know what went down but if two unarmed, equally matched guys get into a fight then all bets are off. If you come at me and we start brawling, you or I may get a fractured face as a result, but I don't think either one of us could complain to the other about that given the circumstances. If i sucker punch you then that's a very different story. Don't know what happened though.

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 Post subject: Re: Bobby Portis
PostPosted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 11:44 am 
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https://chicago.suntimes.com/sports/bulls-suspend-bobby-portis-for-eight-games-after-fight-with-mirotic/

The Bobby Portis punch was a result of more dysfunction in leadership

Bobby Portis’ punishment was swift, and it was severe.

Less than 24 hours after punching teammate Nikola Mirotic, who was hospitalized and suffered two broken bones in his face and a concussion, the Bulls suspended Portis for eight games.

“One player threw a punch, and that punch connected,’’ vice president of basketball operations John Paxson said Wednesday. “For us, that is inexcusable. It’s not who we are.’’

Strong words. Some Bulls, however, considered them hollow.

Several players — and even Paxson himself — acknowledged that the Portis-Mirotic conflict had been brewing for a few seasons. The forwards had a handful of shouting and shoving matches in practice going back to the 2015-16 season.

Those flames were stoked during the summer and training camp.

One player told the Sun-Times that Portis’ actions were viewed as unacceptable but understandable throughout the locker room, especially with the mixed messages coming from coaches and general manager Gar Forman.

Portis and young players such as Jerian Grant, Denzel Valentine and Cristiano Felicio were told by Forman in their May exit meetings that the organization expected them to be working at the Advocate Center throughout the summer.
The message was hard work would be noticed and rewarded in this new culture.

Mirotic, however, was absent from those workouts in the offseason. He was lifting in the weight room but was basically a no-show when it came to playing basketball with teammates. Mirotic did have his reasons. He was a restricted free agent awaiting a contract from the Bulls or another organization.

But his distance rubbed teammates the wrong way, and one player said he came across as entitled.

Mirotic signed a two-year deal with the Bulls on media day, and within two weeks, he was all but named a starter over Portis.

Portis was upset that all the work he put in during the summer was apparently being overlooked, and he didn’t feel like there was proper communication in the decision to make him a bench player. It’s not the first time this lack of communication has been alleged under coach Fred Hoiberg.

Joakim Noah and Rajon Rondo also had issues with the way Hoiberg relays messages.

That problem, however, lifts the curtain on a bigger issue.

Hoiberg — right or wrong — is from the coaching school of delegation. Assistant head coach Jim Boylen handles a lot of the “bad cop’’ duties, and that’s why Rondo threw a towel in Boylen’s face last season and was suspended a game.

The problem is many players believe Boylen is simply an extension of Forman and played the role of “fake tough guy’’ — as one player deemed it — to impress Forman in case the Bulls make a coaching change.

A source said Boylen charged Portis on Tuesday after he punched Mirotic, and there were immediate concerns that Portis might throw a second punch, this time at Boylen.

All of this mistrust and lack of communication falls on Forman’s lap. This is the culture he has spread throughout the organization, using threats and spies to cloud the chain of command.

But a source said Forman’s web is starting to unravel. Doug Collins, who was hired this offseason as a special adviser, was visibly upset that the Portis-Mirotic situation had been allowed to fester as long as it has, and he’s starting to question the entire chain of leadership — starting with Forman.

Portis apologized to his teammates for his actions.

But as one teammate put it, the apology wasn’t even necessary.

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