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 Post subject: Re: GMO Opponents
PostPosted: Fri Dec 29, 2017 12:24 am 
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Regular Reader, 312player, and tommy: feel free to respond to this post when time allows.

FavreFan wrote:
Here's a link from one of the most liberal websites on the internet confirming what Ogie and I are saying:

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/jon-enti ... 72130.html

Quote:
In sharp contrast to public views about GMOs, 89% of scientists believe genetically modified foods are safe.

That’s the most eye-opening finding in a Pew Research Center study on science literacy, undertaken in cooperation with the American Association for the Advancement of Science (AAAS), and released on January 29.

The overwhelming scientific consensus exceeds the percentage of scientists, 88%, who think humans are mostly responsible for climate change.


Here's another one from a university.

https://allianceforscience.cornell.edu/ ... ebate-over
Quote:
The GMO debate is over — again. Last week, the prestigious National Academies of Science, Engineering and Medicine issued what is probably the most far-reaching report ever produced by the scientific community on genetically engineered food and crops. The conclusion was unambiguous: Having examined hundreds of scientific papers written on the subject, sat through hours of live testimony from activists and considered hundreds more comments from the general public, the scientists wrote that they "found no substantiated evidence that foods from GE crops were less safe than foods from non-GE crops."


At some point, people will need to stop attacking the messengers and address the message.

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 Post subject: Re: GMO Opponents
PostPosted: Fri Dec 29, 2017 12:24 am 
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FavreFan wrote:
312player wrote:
I betcha FF would have been telling me agent orange was harmless 50 years ago.

Unlikely. I’m sorry you deny scientific consensus.




The scientists said agent orange was harmless for decades..monsanto scientists created AO by the way.

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 Post subject: Re: GMO Opponents
PostPosted: Fri Dec 29, 2017 12:26 am 
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312player wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
312player wrote:
I betcha FF would have been telling me agent orange was harmless 50 years ago.

Unlikely. I’m sorry you deny scientific consensus.




The scientists said agent orange was harmless for decades..monsanto scientists created AO by the way.

I know they created AO. Unlike you, I didn't need to google Monsanto before this thread.

At some point you will need to address GMOs without referencing Monsanto if you want to convince some of us that GMOs are bad. Most of us know Monsanto is bad.

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 Post subject: Re: GMO Opponents
PostPosted: Fri Dec 29, 2017 12:27 am 
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Darkside wrote:
Regular Reader wrote:
tommy wrote:
Europeans seem really against GMOs. I'm not really sure what their arguments are.


Aside from their food looking and tasting different/better, I don't either.

That's stupid.


No it's based upon personal experience and virtually everyone I know that has spent time living there. Now there is something to do with their shopping and eating habits that require fewer preservatives and more of a focus on local and more seasonal ingredients, but the products are noticably different in my admittedly limited experience.

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 Post subject: Re: GMO Opponents
PostPosted: Fri Dec 29, 2017 12:27 am 
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312player wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
312player wrote:
I betcha FF would have been telling me agent orange was harmless 50 years ago.

Unlikely. I’m sorry you deny scientific consensus.




The scientists said agent orange was harmless for decades..monsanto scientists created AO by the way.

Are you confusing agent Orange with ddt?

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 Post subject: Re: GMO Opponents
PostPosted: Fri Dec 29, 2017 12:30 am 
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Darkside wrote:
312player wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
312player wrote:
I betcha FF would have been telling me agent orange was harmless 50 years ago.

Unlikely. I’m sorry you deny scientific consensus.




The scientists said agent orange was harmless for decades..monsanto scientists created AO by the way.

Are you confusing agent Orange with ddt?

Monsanto created AO along with Dow Chemicals. Unless I'm stupid

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 Post subject: Re: GMO Opponents
PostPosted: Fri Dec 29, 2017 12:32 am 
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Regular Reader wrote:
Darkside wrote:
312player wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
312player wrote:
I betcha FF would have been telling me agent orange was harmless 50 years ago.

Unlikely. I’m sorry you deny scientific consensus.




The scientists said agent orange was harmless for decades..monsanto scientists created AO by the way.

Are you confusing agent Orange with ddt?

Monsanto created AO along with Dow Chemicals. Unless I'm stupid

I believe his post was referencing "Scientists said it was harmless for decades.". I don't believe scientists ever said Agent Orange was harmless. Might be mistaken on that last part but I dont think so.

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 Post subject: Re: GMO Opponents
PostPosted: Fri Dec 29, 2017 12:32 am 
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Regular Reader wrote:
Darkside wrote:
312player wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
312player wrote:
I betcha FF would have been telling me agent orange was harmless 50 years ago.

Unlikely. I’m sorry you deny scientific consensus.




The scientists said agent orange was harmless for decades..monsanto scientists created AO by the way.

Are you confusing agent Orange with ddt?

Monsanto created AO along with Dow Chemicals. Unless I'm stupid

Perhaps you are, I don't know. But based on what someone else was saying, it seems he's a bit muddled.

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 Post subject: Re: GMO Opponents
PostPosted: Fri Dec 29, 2017 12:34 am 
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Agent Orange was a straight up defoliant and not exactly expected to be safe.
DDT was an insecticide and was generally accepted as safe for decades... kinda also helped control malaria at one point and is suspected today to be a carcinogen. Thus... my question.

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 Post subject: Re: GMO Opponents
PostPosted: Fri Dec 29, 2017 12:35 am 
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FavreFan wrote:
312player wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
312player wrote:
I betcha FF would have been telling me agent orange was harmless 50 years ago.

Unlikely. I’m sorry you deny scientific consensus.




The scientists said agent orange was harmless for decades..monsanto scientists created AO by the way.

I know they created AO. Unlike you, I didn't need to google Monsanto before this thread.

At some point you will need to address GMOs without referencing Monsanto if you want to convince some of us that GMOs are bad. Most of us know Monsanto is bad.




I've posted about agent orange and monsanto for years. Here's the difference between you and I, You believe Monsanto and a dozen other greedy corporations give a fuck about starving people in Africa or India...I KNOW they don't.

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 Post subject: Re: GMO Opponents
PostPosted: Fri Dec 29, 2017 12:36 am 
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FavreFan wrote:
Regular Reader wrote:
Darkside wrote:
312player wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
312player wrote:
I betcha FF would have been telling me agent orange was harmless 50 years ago.

Unlikely. I’m sorry you deny scientific consensus.




The scientists said agent orange was harmless for decades..monsanto scientists created AO by the way.

Are you confusing agent Orange with ddt?

Monsanto created AO along with Dow Chemicals. Unless I'm stupid

I believe his post was referencing "Scientists said it was harmless for decades.". I don't believe scientists ever said Agent Orange was harmless. Might be mistaken on that last part but I dont think so.


Fair enough, but scientists did call DDT safe for decades as well. And also denied that Vietnam veterans were affected by agent Orange to the extent we now know they were

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 Post subject: Re: GMO Opponents
PostPosted: Fri Dec 29, 2017 12:36 am 
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Monsanto created AO and DDT.

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 Post subject: Re: GMO Opponents
PostPosted: Fri Dec 29, 2017 12:37 am 
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In 20 years roundup will be outlawed.

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 Post subject: Re: GMO Opponents
PostPosted: Fri Dec 29, 2017 12:37 am 
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Years of ddt related posts from 312?

Consider me sceptical of the claim.

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 Post subject: Re: GMO Opponents
PostPosted: Fri Dec 29, 2017 12:38 am 
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312player wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
312player wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
312player wrote:
I betcha FF would have been telling me agent orange was harmless 50 years ago.

Unlikely. I’m sorry you deny scientific consensus.




The scientists said agent orange was harmless for decades..monsanto scientists created AO by the way.

I know they created AO. Unlike you, I didn't need to google Monsanto before this thread.

At some point you will need to address GMOs without referencing Monsanto if you want to convince some of us that GMOs are bad. Most of us know Monsanto is bad.




I've posted about agent orange and monsanto for years. Here's the difference between you and I, You believe Monsanto and a dozen other greedy corporations give a fuck about starving people in Africa or India...I KNOW they don't.

It's like you didn't even read a word of this thread.

If you did, I would kindly ask that you point to ONE post of mine that defends Monsanto or any other corporation.

Since I know it's impossible to comply with the request above, I'm gonna kindly ask that you read the thread again so we can continue this discussion.

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 Post subject: Re: GMO Opponents
PostPosted: Fri Dec 29, 2017 12:38 am 
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312player wrote:
In 20 years roundup will be outlawed.

Trust me you posts killed more healthy cells than roundup.

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 Post subject: Re: GMO Opponents
PostPosted: Fri Dec 29, 2017 12:42 am 
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Regular Reader wrote:
Fair enough, but scientists did call DDT safe for decades as well. And also denied that Vietnam veterans were affected by agent Orange to the extent we now know they were

Well, I think we can dismiss your last point by obviously pointing to a scientific majority at the time who would disagree. So it doesn't apply.

The DDT example is better but still falls apart under even casual scrutiny. If we aren't trusting our scientific community to be more trusted than they were 70 years ago, then why do we have a scientific community? Science is obviously a fluid, progressive discipline. By your logic/standards, we could just as easily dismiss EVERY scientific organization that has been around for more than 10 years or so.

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 Post subject: Re: GMO Opponents
PostPosted: Fri Dec 29, 2017 12:45 am 
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312player wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
312player wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
312player wrote:
I betcha FF would have been telling me agent orange was harmless 50 years ago.

Unlikely. I’m sorry you deny scientific consensus.




The scientists said agent orange was harmless for decades..monsanto scientists created AO by the way.

I know they created AO. Unlike you, I didn't need to google Monsanto before this thread.

At some point you will need to address GMOs without referencing Monsanto if you want to convince some of us that GMOs are bad. Most of us know Monsanto is bad.




I've posted about agent orange and monsanto for years. Here's the difference between you and I, You believe Monsanto and a dozen other greedy corporations give a fuck about starving people in Africa or India...I KNOW they don't.


Therein lies the rub.

And I don't think that some (MANY?) give the more fucks in this country as well.

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 Post subject: Re: GMO Opponents
PostPosted: Fri Dec 29, 2017 12:46 am 
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FavreFan wrote:
312player wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
312player wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
312player wrote:
I betcha FF would have been telling me agent orange was harmless 50 years ago.

Unlikely. I’m sorry you deny scientific consensus.




The scientists said agent orange was harmless for decades..monsanto scientists created AO by the way.

I know they created AO. Unlike you, I didn't need to google Monsanto before this thread.

At some point you will need to address GMOs without referencing Monsanto if you want to convince some of us that GMOs are bad. Most of us know Monsanto is bad.




I've posted about agent orange and monsanto for years. Here's the difference between you and I, You believe Monsanto and a dozen other greedy corporations give a fuck about starving people in Africa or India...I KNOW they don't.

It's like you didn't even read a word of this thread.

If you did, I would kindly ask that you point to ONE post of mine that defends Monsanto or any other corporation.

Since I know it's impossible to comply with the request above, I'm gonna kindly ask that you read the thread again so we can continue this discussion.



I've read the studies that say gmo is safe, i told you already i don't know if that's true or false. I'm 100% certain these corps don't give a shit about starving people. You are putting alot of faith in some of the most untrustworthy people on the planet.

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 Post subject: Re: GMO Opponents
PostPosted: Fri Dec 29, 2017 12:46 am 
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Regular Reader wrote:
312player wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
312player wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
312player wrote:
I betcha FF would have been telling me agent orange was harmless 50 years ago.

Unlikely. I’m sorry you deny scientific consensus.




The scientists said agent orange was harmless for decades..monsanto scientists created AO by the way.

I know they created AO. Unlike you, I didn't need to google Monsanto before this thread.

At some point you will need to address GMOs without referencing Monsanto if you want to convince some of us that GMOs are bad. Most of us know Monsanto is bad.




I've posted about agent orange and monsanto for years. Here's the difference between you and I, You believe Monsanto and a dozen other greedy corporations give a fuck about starving people in Africa or India...I KNOW they don't.


Therein lies the rub.

And I don't think that some (MANY?) give the more fucks in this country as well.

So you didn’t really read the thread either I guess.

I already addressed this non-point.

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 Post subject: Re: GMO Opponents
PostPosted: Fri Dec 29, 2017 12:48 am 
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How many fucks does 312 give about the starving in Africa and India?
Less than or equal to Monsanto?

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 Post subject: Re: GMO Opponents
PostPosted: Fri Dec 29, 2017 12:48 am 
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312player wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
312player wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
312player wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
Unlikely. I’m sorry you deny scientific consensus.




The scientists said agent orange was harmless for decades..monsanto scientists created AO by the way.

I know they created AO. Unlike you, I didn't need to google Monsanto before this thread.

At some point you will need to address GMOs without referencing Monsanto if you want to convince some of us that GMOs are bad. Most of us know Monsanto is bad.




I've posted about agent orange and monsanto for years. Here's the difference between you and I, You believe Monsanto and a dozen other greedy corporations give a fuck about starving people in Africa or India...I KNOW they don't.

It's like you didn't even read a word of this thread.

If you did, I would kindly ask that you point to ONE post of mine that defends Monsanto or any other corporation.

Since I know it's impossible to comply with the request above, I'm gonna kindly ask that you read the thread again so we can continue this discussion.



I've read the studies that say gmo is safe, i told you already i don't know if that's true or false. I'm 100% certain these corps don't give a shit about starving people. You are putting alot of faith in some of the most untrustworthy people on the planet.

As Ogie and I have pointed out, the science here is solid. You and RR are attempting a “nobody knows anything” defense. That’s fine, but if that’s the case I would hope you and him never try to defend climate change in a public forum.

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 Post subject: Re: GMO Opponents
PostPosted: Fri Dec 29, 2017 12:51 am 
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I never claimed " nobody knows anything" I'm simply saying approach with extreme caution and lets wait n see..45 countries seem to agree.

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 Post subject: Re: GMO Opponents
PostPosted: Fri Dec 29, 2017 12:54 am 
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312player wrote:
I never claimed " nobody knows anything" I'm simply saying approach with extreme caution and lets wait n see..45 countries seem to agree.

You are definitely doing a "nobody knows anything" defense. You are literally discrediting EVERYONE who says GMOs are safe and yet unwilling to call them unsafe yourself. :lol:

At least be honest aboiut it.

And you're just about the last person on this board outside of Ogie and I that I would expect to make a legal=right argument. I don't give any fucks what a country's politicians say. I've heard what our own politicians say. I'm good with believing scientists over politicians. :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: GMO Opponents
PostPosted: Fri Dec 29, 2017 12:56 am 
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Well this has gotten silly. Since that's never happened before on this site I'm outraged.

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 Post subject: Re: GMO Opponents
PostPosted: Fri Dec 29, 2017 12:56 am 
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FavreFan wrote:
Regular Reader wrote:
312player wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
312player wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
Unlikely. I’m sorry you deny scientific consensus.




The scientists said agent orange was harmless for decades..monsanto scientists created AO by the way.

I know they created AO. Unlike you, I didn't need to google Monsanto before this thread.

At some point you will need to address GMOs without referencing Monsanto if you want to convince some of us that GMOs are bad. Most of us know Monsanto is bad.




I've posted about agent orange and monsanto for years. Here's the difference between you and I, You believe Monsanto and a dozen other greedy corporations give a fuck about starving people in Africa or India...I KNOW they don't.


Therein lies the rub.

And I don't think that some (MANY?) give the more fucks in this country as well.

So you didn’t really read the thread either I guess.

I already addressed this non-point.


But what you don't seem to appreciate is that the malevolent corporate actors are the greatest source of skepticism for most. It's in large part what underlies a great deal of the dissonance discussed in the HuffPo piece, I'd guess.

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 Post subject: Re: GMO Opponents
PostPosted: Fri Dec 29, 2017 12:58 am 
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Regular Reader wrote:
But what you don't seem to appreciate is that the malevolent corporate actors are the greatest source of skepticism for most. It's in large part what underlies a great deal of the dissonance discussed in the HuffPo piece, I'd guess.

We're just talking in circles now. I already addressed this earlier. If you want to be skeptical of scientists because you think the entire field is being bribed, that's your prerogative. It's silly and/or delusional, but I can accept that. Just enforce the same standards for global warming as you do for this. Logical consistency is all I'm asking for.

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 Post subject: Re: GMO Opponents
PostPosted: Fri Dec 29, 2017 1:00 am 
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FavreFan wrote:
312player wrote:
I never claimed " nobody knows anything" I'm simply saying approach with extreme caution and lets wait n see..45 countries seem to agree.

You are definitely doing a "nobody knows anything" defense. You are literally discrediting EVERYONE who says GMOs are safe and yet unwilling to call them unsafe yourself. :lol:

At least be honest aboiut it.

And you're just about the last person on this board outside of Ogie and I that I would expect to make a legal=right argument. I don't give any fucks what a country's politicians say. I've heard what our own politicians say. I'm good with believing scientists over politicians. :lol:




I didn't want to get into this and you just laugh and think I'm nuts but ..here it is, I wouldn't put it past Monsanto, BASF, Dow etc that the end game is population control.

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 Post subject: Re: GMO Opponents
PostPosted: Fri Dec 29, 2017 1:02 am 
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312player wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
312player wrote:
I never claimed " nobody knows anything" I'm simply saying approach with extreme caution and lets wait n see..45 countries seem to agree.

You are definitely doing a "nobody knows anything" defense. You are literally discrediting EVERYONE who says GMOs are safe and yet unwilling to call them unsafe yourself. :lol:

At least be honest aboiut it.

And you're just about the last person on this board outside of Ogie and I that I would expect to make a legal=right argument. I don't give any fucks what a country's politicians say. I've heard what our own politicians say. I'm good with believing scientists over politicians. :lol:




I didn't want to get into this and you just laugh and think I'm nuts but ..here it is, I wouldn't put it past Monsanto, BASF, Dow etc that the end game is population control.

That's not even in the top 100 most improbable conspiracy theories I have ever heard.

I get the whole paranoia, "distrust everything you read on everything" mentality. I like it and think it's necessary. I would just say that if you are that guy you should be that guy on every single issue. If you pick and choose you'll likely just be wrong and inconsistent.

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 Post subject: Re: GMO Opponents
PostPosted: Fri Dec 29, 2017 1:07 am 
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Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
also when you break it down, GMO's are really the same fruit, vegetable, etc. you have always eaten. They have just been selectively bred with certain genes selected to give them a longer shelf life, make them more resilient to environmental factors, and provide a higher crop yield for a given plant.

It's the same thing farmers had been doing for years when they haphazardly cross-bred plants hoping certain genes would carry through. Now we've taken the random chance out of it and simply been able to directly choose the more favorable genes in our plants. It's really as simple as that.

This is the best post of this thread. This is all it is.

I can keep saying Monsanto is terrible if it helps people like RR, 312, and tommy. I think Monsanto is one of the very worst corporations on Earth. Fortunately, I realize that a product shouldn't be exclusively tied to the most famous producer of that product.

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