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Curious Hair wrote:

Hank Scorpio wrote:

Curious Hair wrote:

"He's bad at challenges and clock management" is sort of the Universal Coach Lament of the NFL fan. The NHL version is "he shuffles linemates and doesn't play the kids." It's just something to say instead of silence.

Part if that is just because we all grew up playing Madden. Its insane to me that professional coaches will let 8 seconds tick off the clock before they call time out.

Did I hallucinate it or did someone on the board today say that anyone who played Madden as a kid would be better at clock management than coaches who didn't?

Most kids sucked at Madden iirc.

The good madden players would be better.

RFDC wrote:

FavreFan wrote:

Hank Scorpio wrote:

FF makes a good point. What coaches are good on gameday? Belichick. I'm struggling to come up with another name.

John Harbaugh. Maybe a couple others. There’s not many.

What have we seen from Harbaugh that makes him good on gsme day?

He’s specifically very competitive against the Patriots, especially relative to the rest of the league. Flacco is one of the worst QBs in the league and has been for awhile but he still gets very good results. I don’t often see them make mistakes or egregious fuck ups in close games, and they play a lot of them.

I don’t watch them all the time though. He could be awful and I don’t realize it. Just the first name that came to mind outside of Belichick.

FavreFan wrote:

RFDC wrote:

FavreFan wrote:

Hank Scorpio wrote:

FF makes a good point. What coaches are good on gameday? Belichick. I'm struggling to come up with another name.

John Harbaugh. Maybe a couple others. There’s not many.

What have we seen from Harbaugh that makes him good on gsme day?

Yeah i dont really know either. Letting a bad Bengals team takeyou out of the playoffs is a pretty big fuckup tho.

I can see how they might be better at clock management. It’s infuriating how bad nfl coaches are at that, and I would have to strongly disagree with CH that it’s an empty complaint.

FavreFan wrote:

I can see how they might be better at clock management. It’s infuriating how bad nfl coaches are at that, and I would have to strongly disagree with CH that it’s an empty complaint.

About how many coaches is it said "man, say what you will, but he really makes sensible challenges and manages the clock so well"?

It's not just that coaches are bad with time management, the players fuck it up just as much. In 2 minute drills WRs don't go out of bounds when they should and fight for useless yards, RBs go out of bounds when they shouldn't (Marion Barber/Tebow), QBs throw 3 yard passes that eat up 20 seconds or scramble around wasting time, lineman lollygag down the field after big plays eating more clock, and WRs point at each other and can't seem to stand still when the QB is snapping it and they get dumb movement penalties that cause time run off.

Sure, you can say they need be coached better, but I'd bet they are coached about it but instinct takes over. Like yeah, the Panthers DB should have dropped the INT yesterday, someone may have even told them in the huddle to knock the ball down, but telling a player to do the opposite of what they're coached to do the other 99.99% of the time isn't always going to click.

So once again why should we think this was a good hire?

"I don't know. Maybe it is." is not an answer. I agree it may work out. Others seem more likely to be better.

Boilermaker Rick wrote:

So once again why should we think this was a good hire?

"I don't know. Maybe it is." is not an answer. I agree it may work out. Others seem more likely to be better.

Well if some choose to be optimistic based only on faith I guess it leaves it up to you to prove in some mysterious way he will be a complete bust. I saw you would rather have Defilippo but besides that I have yet to see your long list of provable facts that should lead many to doubt Nagy so far.

pittmike wrote:

Boilermaker Rick wrote:

So once again why should we think this was a good hire?

"I don't know. Maybe it is." is not an answer. I agree it may work out. Others seem more likely to be better.

Faith?

I have not said he will be a bust. He may be good.
We may win 5 Super Bowls with him.

I've given my reasons for concern. If someone doesn't like it then make a case why this is a hire with a high chance of success.

Why do you think it is a good hire?

This isn't hard. I think there were two better choices at a minimum. I have reasons why.

If someone feels I am wrong then make the case.

Your complaint seems to be that I have an opinion while you have none.

Boilermaker Rick wrote:

I read your opinions yesterday. I disagree. No need for more discussion.

Caller Bob wrote:

Outside of Seacrest, RDFC, GoodDolphin, Peoria, Frank, Mike, Boyd..(sorry if missed anyone)

You are stupid and all your Bears thoughts are stupid. Yeah, Nagy may be bad, but we have no idea at this point. Reading your chicken little bullshit is nauseating. You deserve the worst.

#MeToo

Hank Scorpio wrote:

Curious Hair wrote:

Part if that is just because we all grew up playing Madden. Its insane to me that professional coaches will let 8 seconds tick off the clock before they call time out.

Did I hallucinate it or did someone on the board today say that anyone who played Madden as a kid would be better at clock management than coaches who didn't?

Don Tiny wrote:

Caller Bob wrote:

#MeToo

Noted and updated. My apologies

So once again why should we think this was a good hire?

"I don't know. Maybe it is." is not an answer. I agree it may work out. Others seem more likely to be better.

Well, to be fair, “I don’t know. It seems like it’s not.” isn’t much of an answer either.

FavreFan wrote:

Well, to be fair, “I don’t know. It seems like it’s not.” isn’t much of an answer either.

That wasn't my answer. I gave a few reasons to be concerned.

The problem with the "He may be good or he may not be good" is that it isn't a reason to say someone is wrong for being more skeptical or thinking there were better options. Look at the post Bob made here. He was mad that people brought up valid concerns.

I hope he's great. He may be great. If you gave me a choice of McDaniels, DeFilippo, and Nagy I choose the other two over them. I guess we'll see when those guys get head coaching jobs to know for sure.

But the only reason I heard you give is that you don’t want to be the Chiefs. That’s fine, but being the Eagles isn’t better, and the belichick tree has repeatedly proven you aren’t gonna be the Pats either if you get McDaniels.

DeFillipo is a quarterbacks coach and he is not a play caller. Not sure why you would take him over a guy who has been an OC and called plays.

Author:	Curious Hair [ Mon Jan 08, 2018 5:42 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Bears fans
FavreFan wrote: Curious Hair wrote: Hank Scorpio wrote: Curious Hair wrote: "He's bad at challenges and clock management" is sort of the Universal Coach Lament of the NFL fan. The NHL version is "he shuffles linemates and doesn't play the kids." It's just something to say instead of silence. Part if that is just because we all grew up playing Madden. Its insane to me that professional coaches will let 8 seconds tick off the clock before they call time out. Did I hallucinate it or did someone on the board today say that anyone who played Madden as a kid would be better at clock management than coaches who didn't? Most kids sucked at Madden iirc. The good madden players would be better. Why don't coaches just direct-snap to the running back on two-point conversions? It literally never fails!

Author:	America [ Mon Jan 08, 2018 5:43 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Bears fans
Let me just say my Madden strategy of always onside kicking and just letting the other team score so I could back on offense would probably get me labeled a poor gameday coach by fans.

Author:	RFDC [ Mon Jan 08, 2018 5:44 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Bears fans
FavreFan wrote: RFDC wrote: FavreFan wrote: Hank Scorpio wrote: FF makes a good point. What coaches are good on gameday? Belichick. I'm struggling to come up with another name. John Harbaugh. Maybe a couple others. There’s not many. What have we seen from Harbaugh that makes him good on gsme day? He’s specifically very competitive against the Patriots, especially relative to the rest of the league. Flacco is one of the worst QBs in the league and has been for awhile but he still gets very good results. I don’t often see them make mistakes or egregious fuck ups in close games, and they play a lot of them. I don’t watch them all the time though. He could be awful and I don’t realize it. Just the first name that came to mind outside of Belichick. Yeah i dont really know either. Letting a bad Bengals team takeyou out of the playoffs is a pretty big fuckup tho.

Author:	FavreFan [ Mon Jan 08, 2018 5:45 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Bears fans
I can see how they might be better at clock management. It’s infuriating how bad nfl coaches are at that, and I would have to strongly disagree with CH that it’s an empty complaint. But yes, they would be awful coaches obviously

Author:	FavreFan [ Mon Jan 08, 2018 5:45 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Bears fans
RFDC wrote: FavreFan wrote: RFDC wrote: FavreFan wrote: Hank Scorpio wrote: FF makes a good point. What coaches are good on gameday? Belichick. I'm struggling to come up with another name. John Harbaugh. Maybe a couple others. There’s not many. What have we seen from Harbaugh that makes him good on gsme day? He’s specifically very competitive against the Patriots, especially relative to the rest of the league. Flacco is one of the worst QBs in the league and has been for awhile but he still gets very good results. I don’t often see them make mistakes or egregious fuck ups in close games, and they play a lot of them. I don’t watch them all the time though. He could be awful and I don’t realize it. Just the first name that came to mind outside of Belichick. Yeah i dont really know either. Letting a bad Bengals team takeyou out of the playoffs is a pretty big fuckup tho. I can excuse a bad game. He hasn’t had a losing season in a decade.

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Author:	Curious Hair [ Mon Jan 08, 2018 5:46 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Bears fans
FavreFan wrote: I can see how they might be better at clock management. It’s infuriating how bad nfl coaches are at that, and I would have to strongly disagree with CH that it’s an empty complaint. About how many coaches is it said "man, say what you will, but he really makes sensible challenges and manages the clock so well"?

Author:	FavreFan [ Mon Jan 08, 2018 5:48 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Bears fans
Curious Hair wrote: FavreFan wrote: I can see how they might be better at clock management. It’s infuriating how bad nfl coaches are at that, and I would have to strongly disagree with CH that it’s an empty complaint. About how many coaches is it said "man, say what you will, but he really makes sensible challenges and manages the clock so well"? Well, if we’re talking about bad coaches, no one is gonna give a shit how good they are at that stuff. But if you think that type of stuff doesn’t separate Andy Reid and John Fox from super bowl winning coaches, I guess we just have to disagree.

Author:	KDdidit [ Mon Jan 08, 2018 6:38 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Bears fans
It's not just that coaches are bad with time management, the players fuck it up just as much. In 2 minute drills WRs don't go out of bounds when they should and fight for useless yards, RBs go out of bounds when they shouldn't (Marion Barber/Tebow), QBs throw 3 yard passes that eat up 20 seconds or scramble around wasting time, lineman lollygag down the field after big plays eating more clock, and WRs point at each other and can't seem to stand still when the QB is snapping it and they get dumb movement penalties that cause time run off. Sure, you can say they need be coached better, but I'd bet they are coached about it but instinct takes over. Like yeah, the Panthers DB should have dropped the INT yesterday, someone may have even told them in the huddle to knock the ball down, but telling a player to do the opposite of what they're coached to do the other 99.99% of the time isn't always going to click.

Author:	ZephMarshack [ Mon Jan 08, 2018 6:50 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Bears fans
KDdidit wrote: It's not just that coaches are bad with time management, the players fuck it up just as much. In 2 minute drills WRs don't go out of bounds when they should and fight for useless yards, RBs go out of bounds when they shouldn't (Marion Barber/Tebow), QBs throw 3 yard passes that eat up 20 seconds or scramble around wasting time, lineman lollygag down the field after big plays eating more clock, and WRs point at each other and can't seem to stand still when the QB is snapping it and they get dumb movement penalties that cause time run off. Sure, you can say they need be coached better, but I'd bet they are coached about it but instinct takes over. Like yeah, the Panthers DB should have dropped the INT yesterday, someone may have even told them in the huddle to knock the ball down, but telling a player to do the opposite of what they're coached to do the other 99.99% of the time isn't always going to click. But as you said, the players have an excuse when it comes to their instincts that coaches don't when it comes to their own in-game blunders. I'd argue if anything that just makes it all the worse when coaches screw up management issues that are entirely under their own control. People got so mad at Morgan Burnett for sliding after his interception during the Packers-Seahawks NFC championship game in 2015, but Mike McCarthy made so many more blunders that it shouldn't have mattered at all that a defensive player looked to protect the ball first.

Author:	KDdidit [ Mon Jan 08, 2018 7:00 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Bears fans
I've suggested for years that NFL teams have a "time coach" or some other weird mathematician/stats guy in a booth telling a coach what to do or have him make up some cheat sheet like the 2 point conversion one to tell a coach what to do. Sports are so data driven someone out there have information on the most efficient way to use TOs. Maybe some of them do but the coaches blow those poindexter nerds off and go with their guts all the time.

Author:	ZephMarshack [ Mon Jan 08, 2018 7:06 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Bears fans
I actually don't think coaches are all so dumb when it comes to stuff like going for it on 4th down or going for 2 and that at least some are just going along with the status quo out of self-interest. While the internet often gives the impression of stuff like that being "solved," I think this is a case where the archaic way of treating such situations is still predominant among owners and TV coverage. The backlash for going for it instead of taking the points is still very real among people who matter.

Author:	Brick [ Tue Jan 09, 2018 9:29 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Bears fans
So once again why should we think this was a good hire? "I don't know. Maybe it is." is not an answer. I agree it may work out. Others seem more likely to be better.

Author:	pittmike [ Tue Jan 09, 2018 9:35 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Bears fans
Boilermaker Rick wrote: So once again why should we think this was a good hire? "I don't know. Maybe it is." is not an answer. I agree it may work out. Others seem more likely to be better. Well if some choose to be optimistic based only on faith I guess it leaves it up to you to prove in some mysterious way he will be a complete bust. I saw you would rather have Defilippo but besides that I have yet to see your long list of provable facts that should lead many to doubt Nagy so far.

Author:	Brick [ Tue Jan 09, 2018 9:41 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Bears fans
pittmike wrote: Boilermaker Rick wrote: So once again why should we think this was a good hire? "I don't know. Maybe it is." is not an answer. I agree it may work out. Others seem more likely to be better. Well if some choose to be optimistic based only on faith I guess it leaves it up to you to prove in some mysterious way he will be a complete bust. I saw you would rather have Defilippo but besides that I have yet to see your long list of provable facts that should lead many to doubt Nagy so far. Faith? I have not said he will be a bust. He may be good. We may win 5 Super Bowls with him. I've given my reasons for concern. If someone doesn't like it then make a case why this is a hire with a high chance of success.

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Author:	pittmike [ Tue Jan 09, 2018 9:47 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Bears fans
Boilermaker Rick wrote: pittmike wrote: Boilermaker Rick wrote: So once again why should we think this was a good hire? "I don't know. Maybe it is." is not an answer. I agree it may work out. Others seem more likely to be better. Well if some choose to be optimistic based only on faith I guess it leaves it up to you to prove in some mysterious way he will be a complete bust. I saw you would rather have Defilippo but besides that I have yet to see your long list of provable facts that should lead many to doubt Nagy so far. Faith? I have not said he will be a bust. He may be good. We may win 5 Super Bowls with him. I've given my reasons for concern. If someone doesn't like it then make a case why this is a hire with a high chance of success. You are a treat. "I have not said he will be a bust. He may be good. We may win 5 Super Bowls with him." But lets dance for 5 pages on Bears fans proving he will not suck.

Author:	Brick [ Tue Jan 09, 2018 9:51 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Bears fans
Why do you think it is a good hire? This isn't hard. I think there were two better choices at a minimum. I have reasons why. If someone feels I am wrong then make the case. Your complaint seems to be that I have an opinion while you have none.

Author:	pittmike [ Tue Jan 09, 2018 9:54 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Bears fans
Boilermaker Rick wrote: Why do you think it is a good hire? This isn't hard. I think there were two better choices at a minimum. I have reasons why. If someone feels I am wrong then make the case. Your complaint seems to be that I have an opinion while you have none. I read your opinions yesterday. I disagree. No need for more discussion.

Author:	Brick [ Tue Jan 09, 2018 10:03 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Bears fans
pittmike wrote: Boilermaker Rick wrote: Why do you think it is a good hire? This isn't hard. I think there were two better choices at a minimum. I have reasons why. If someone feels I am wrong then make the case. Your complaint seems to be that I have an opinion while you have none. I read your opinions yesterday. I disagree. No need for more discussion. You responded to me! What is your deal? I didn't seek out non-opinions from you on this.

Author:	Caller Bob [ Tue Jan 09, 2018 10:14 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Bears fans
Don Tiny wrote: Caller Bob wrote: Outside of Seacrest, RDFC, GoodDolphin, Peoria, Frank, Mike, Boyd..(sorry if missed anyone) You are stupid and all your Bears thoughts are stupid. Yeah, Nagy may be bad, but we have no idea at this point. Reading your chicken little bullshit is nauseating. You deserve the worst. #MeToo Noted and updated. My apologies

Author:	TurdFerguson [ Tue Jan 09, 2018 10:23 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Bears fans
Curious Hair wrote: Hank Scorpio wrote: Curious Hair wrote: "He's bad at challenges and clock management" is sort of the Universal Coach Lament of the NFL fan. The NHL version is "he shuffles linemates and doesn't play the kids." It's just something to say instead of silence. Part if that is just because we all grew up playing Madden. Its insane to me that professional coaches will let 8 seconds tick off the clock before they call time out. Did I hallucinate it or did someone on the board today say that anyone who played Madden as a kid would be better at clock management than coaches who didn't? That was me! Give me the coach who has played a thousand simulated contests at managing a clock. You see coaches every now and then show glimpses of understanding game theory against conventional wisdom. Love it a few years ago Belichek going for a 4th a 2 from midfield, against Manning and the Colts (I think). Logic being a conversion ends the game. Failure just means you saved the Colts the time of running a single play against a prevent defense.

Author:	Don Tiny [ Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:35 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Bears fans
Caller Bob wrote: Don Tiny wrote: Caller Bob wrote: Outside of Seacrest, RDFC, GoodDolphin, Peoria, Frank, Mike, Boyd..(sorry if missed anyone) You are stupid and all your Bears thoughts are stupid. Yeah, Nagy may be bad, but we have no idea at this point. Reading your chicken little bullshit is nauseating. You deserve the worst. #MeToo Noted and updated. My apologies You are forgiven, Commander Kril.

Author:	FavreFan [ Tue Jan 09, 2018 2:30 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Bears fans
Boilermaker Rick wrote: So once again why should we think this was a good hire? "I don't know. Maybe it is." is not an answer. I agree it may work out. Others seem more likely to be better. Well, to be fair, “I don’t know. It seems like it’s not.” isn’t much of an answer either. Unlike the Fox hire, I don’t KNOW this guy sucks. Unlike Trestman, he seems like a normal guy players can actually respect. As others have noted, he seemed to utilize his best players in ways that maximize their talents. He had the 5th best offense in the nfl despite having a QB none of us would probably consider a top 10 QB. Guys like McVay have shown you don’t need a lot of experience to make an immediate positive impact on a team. I’m not all in on the hire. I’m not predicting greatness. You may not like “I don’t know, he might be good or he might suck.”, but it’s really the only honest answer one can give right now. The last two Bear hires I don’t even think you could be generous enough to say that. Many people knew they were terrible hires from day one.

Author:	Brick [ Tue Jan 09, 2018 2:36 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Bears fans
FavreFan wrote: Well, to be fair, “I don’t know. It seems like it’s not.” isn’t much of an answer either. That wasn't my answer. I gave a few reasons to be concerned. The problem with the "He may be good or he may not be good" is that it isn't a reason to say someone is wrong for being more skeptical or thinking there were better options. Look at the post Bob made here. He was mad that people brought up valid concerns. I hope he's great. He may be great. If you gave me a choice of McDaniels, DeFilippo, and Nagy I choose the other two over them. I guess we'll see when those guys get head coaching jobs to know for sure.

Author:	FavreFan [ Tue Jan 09, 2018 2:38 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Bears fans
Boilermaker Rick wrote: FavreFan wrote: Well, to be fair, “I don’t know. It seems like it’s not.” isn’t much of an answer either. That wasn't my answer. I gave a few reasons to be concerned. The problem with the "He may be good or he may not be good" is that it isn't a reason to say someone is wrong for being more skeptical or thinking there were better options. Look at the post Bob made here. He was mad that people brought up valid concerns. I hope he's great. He may be great. If you gave me a choice of McDaniels, DeFilippo, and Nagy I choose the other two over them. I guess we'll see when those guys get head coaching jobs to know for sure. Well, Bob is an idiot. But the only reason I heard you give is that you don’t want to be the Chiefs. That’s fine, but being the Eagles isn’t better, and the belichick tree has repeatedly proven you aren’t gonna be the Pats either if you get McDaniels.

Author:	Brick [ Tue Jan 09, 2018 2:49 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Bears fans
FavreFan wrote: But the only reason I heard you give is that you don’t want to be the Chiefs. That’s fine, but being the Eagles isn’t better, and the belichick tree has repeatedly proven you aren’t gonna be the Pats either if you get McDaniels. I liked DeFilippo's resume better in terms of places he has been and quarterbacks he has seen success with. I'll also take Carr and Wentz over Smith going from average to better than average starting quarterback. McDaniels is supposedly who the Patriots want to replace Belichick whenever that happens. He also did do good work with Orton and Tebow, though obviously his time in Denver wasn't great. However, that doesn't mean that a guy will always suck. I am really concerned that Nagy has literally never worked for another coach who isn't Andy Reid. I think there is a lot of value in working under many coaches. Even before I knew Nagy was a chance, I was just never all that jealous of the Chiefs. Maybe they were limited by their quarterback but they always seemed to be the worst good team in the league every year. The consistency is to be commended but there comes a time when you have to question how they are so good but never great. I'm not talking about winning a Super Bowl or even making it but I can't remember a year when I thought they were a legitimate Super Bowl likely participant. Now, that's clearly an upgrade from the Bears and where they are now but it's how I always viewed them.

Author:	FavreFan [ Tue Jan 09, 2018 3:07 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Bears fans
I don’t know. He might be good. Smith had a much better year than Carr and a higher QB rating than Wentz. Most would agree he’s less talented than both. Coaching did something right, imo.

Author:	Frank Coztansa [ Tue Jan 09, 2018 3:12 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Bears fans
DeFillipo is a quarterbacks coach and he is not a play caller. Not sure why you would take him over a guy who has been an OC and called plays. Peter King was on Waddle & Silvy last week and he said that from what he heard Josh McDaniels wasn't terrible high on Tribiksy. If that is the case, then it makes sense for the Bears not to hire him.

Author:	Brick [ Tue Jan 09, 2018 3:21 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Bears fans
Frank Coztansa wrote: DeFillipo is a quarterbacks coach and he is not a play caller. Not sure why you would take him over a guy who has been an OC and called plays. Matt Nagy started calling plays in week 13 of this year. So, I'm not going to make a big deal about a 6 game difference there.

Author:	Brick [ Tue Jan 09, 2018 3:25 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Bears fans
Can this be concerning? https://www.arrowheadpride.com/2018/1/8/16863070/the-chiefs-playcalling-mystery-continues

Author:	FavreFan [ Tue Jan 09, 2018 3:29 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Bears fans
Boilermaker Rick wrote: :lol: Can this be concerning? https://www.arrowheadpride.com/2018/1/8/16863070/the-chiefs-playcalling-mystery-continues Are you serious? Whoever wrote that kept repeating that he doesn’t know anything, and the one parallel he drew was to Pederson, one of the top candidates for coach of the year this year.