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 Post subject: Norway and Sweden
PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 9:25 pm 
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Their people and politicians are having a lot of fun with this Trump stuff. Talking mad shit about the US and calling us a shithole.

If Trump has half the balls his supporters think he’ll bomb the shit out of these shit talking, no military having assholes tomorrow.

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 Post subject: Re: Norway and Sweden
PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 9:31 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Norway and Sweden
PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 9:32 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Norway and Sweden
PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 9:41 pm 
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Caller Bob wrote:
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 Post subject: Re: Norway and Sweden
PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 9:41 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
Their people and politicians are having a lot of fun with this Trump stuff. Talking mad shit about the US and calling us a shithole.

If Trump has half the balls his supporters think he’ll bomb the shit out of these shit talking, no military having assholes tomorrow.

Don't they have much more restrictive immigration policies than us?

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 Post subject: Re: Norway and Sweden
PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 9:52 pm 
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Well, let's see, I've got a ten kroner, a five kroner, a twenty kroner. No wait, that's another ten kroner. A fimty kroner? How much is that?

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 Post subject: Re: Norway and Sweden
PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 9:54 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
Their people and politicians are having a lot of fun with this Trump stuff. Talking mad shit about the US and calling us a shithole.

If Trump has half the balls his supporters think he’ll bomb the shit out of these shit talking, no military having assholes tomorrow.

Don't they have much more restrictive immigration policies than us?


Everyone has a more restrictive immigration policy than we do. Sven can become an American. You can never be Swedish. America is great. Stop acting shy.

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 Post subject: Re: Norway and Sweden
PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 10:01 pm 
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Sven probably likes his healthcare too much to become an American. Too bad Mahmoud loves Swedish healthcare too.

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 Post subject: Re: Norway and Sweden
PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 10:03 pm 
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We should drop a fucking bomb on Sven. See how he likes his free healthcare then.

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 Post subject: Re: Norway and Sweden
PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 10:04 pm 
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Curious Hair wrote:
Sven probably likes his healthcare too much to become an American. Too bad Mahmoud loves Swedish healthcare too.


And Sven's wife if is she is out on New Years

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 Post subject: Re: Norway and Sweden
PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 10:20 pm 
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And they deport immigrants who break their laws.


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 Post subject: Re: Norway and Sweden
PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 10:23 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
Their people and politicians are having a lot of fun with this Trump stuff. Talking mad shit about the US and calling us a shithole.

If Trump has half the balls his supporters think he’ll bomb the shit out of these shit talking, no military having assholes tomorrow.

Don't they have much more restrictive immigration policies than us?


Pretty much.

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 Post subject: Re: Norway and Sweden
PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 10:24 pm 
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Franky T wrote:
And they deport immigrants who break their laws.


Also have a wall of water and ice.

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 Post subject: Re: Norway and Sweden
PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 10:56 pm 
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pittmike wrote:
Franky T wrote:
And they deport immigrants who break their laws.


Also have a wall of water and ice.


And giants and the wildings.

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 Post subject: Re: Norway and Sweden
PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 2:23 am 
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So I guess Swedes and Norwegians are in agreement that America needs to be made great again.

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 Post subject: Re: Norway and Sweden
PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 8:05 am 
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Curious Hair wrote:
Sven probably likes his healthcare too much to become an American. Too bad Mahmoud loves Swedish healthcare too.

Healthcare would be cheaper and better here too with those immigration rules. We'd save even more with a military strategy of "other countries will save us"!

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 Post subject: Re: Norway and Sweden
PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 8:37 am 
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Curious Hair wrote:
Sven probably likes his healthcare too much to become an American. Too bad Mahmoud loves Swedish healthcare too.


I think the argument about where America is going can really be boiled down to whether we want to embrace European-style socialism or maintain individual freedom as the value that trumps all others. We've obviously been moving toward the former and when you look at the support for Bernie Sanders among young people it seems clear we're headed further in that direction.

I think I've posted enough here that you know I'm not some uber-capitalist. We can make whatever kind of world we want, theoretically anyway. The rub is that the brutality of capitalism works. There's the old saying, if a socialist understood economics he wouldn't be a socialist.

But to get back to immigration, which I believe was the point of this thread, the integration of Mahmoud into Swedish society- or the lack thereof- is the real issue. And that was my original point. The truth is, Mahmoud can never really be Swedish. Sweden is not America. It's easy for us to sit here and bash America and everything that is wrong with her, but the American experiment is good and noble. The idea that all it takes to be an American is a belief in America as a land of freedom and opportunity.

People are tribal. America is different than anyplace else because it was not organized on the basis of tribalism. Being American has nothing to do with "blood and soil". But this is the problem we face with the rise of identity politics. It's natural for humans to divide themselves into groups. The entire concept of America defied that nature.

But it's fragile. When enough people embrace tribalism rather than the idea of shared American values, America will cease to exist. The Roman Empire lasted about 600 years. The Ottoman Empire lasted about 600 years. America is at 250 and counting. When America falls it will be a long time before the world sees anything like what she attempted again.

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 Post subject: Re: Norway and Sweden
PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 9:10 am 
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JORR, I think its nice that you can still believe that, but the United States is a fucking dump. Everything about it is shitty. I am certain it wasn't always that way so I kind of forgive people who may have experienced the USA as an adult before it became the tumor that it is now a break. But objectively speaking its a craven dump that is really only an upgrade for people who come from the world's true shitholes (like Haiti or sub-Saharan Africa).

The only redeeming quality of the USA is we have very good taste in sports and refuse to succumb to the gayness that is soccer.

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 Post subject: Re: Norway and Sweden
PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 9:13 am 
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There are other redeeming qualities, like the national parks, that I can continue to come with as I think about it more. But these things come nowhere near offsetting the poisoned culture of entitlement that defines Americans.

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 Post subject: Re: Norway and Sweden
PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 10:08 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Curious Hair wrote:
Sven probably likes his healthcare too much to become an American. Too bad Mahmoud loves Swedish healthcare too.


I think the argument about where America is going can really be boiled down to whether we want to embrace European-style socialism or maintain individual freedom as the value that trumps all others. We've obviously been moving toward the former and when you look at the support for Bernie Sanders among young people it seems clear we're headed further in that direction.

I think I've posted enough here that you know I'm not some uber-capitalist. We can make whatever kind of world we want, theoretically anyway. The rub is that the brutality of capitalism works. There's the old saying, if a socialist understood economics he wouldn't be a socialist.

But to get back to immigration, which I believe was the point of this thread, the integration of Mahmoud into Swedish society- or the lack thereof- is the real issue. And that was my original point. The truth is, Mahmoud can never really be Swedish. Sweden is not America. It's easy for us to sit here and bash America and everything that is wrong with her, but the American experiment is good and noble. The idea that all it takes to be an American is a belief in America as a land of freedom and opportunity.

People are tribal. America is different than anyplace else because it was not organized on the basis of tribalism. Being American has nothing to do with "blood and soil". But this is the problem we face with the rise of identity politics. It's natural for humans to divide themselves into groups. The entire concept of America defied that nature.

But it's fragile. When enough people embrace tribalism rather than the idea of shared American values, America will cease to exist. The Roman Empire lasted about 600 years. The Ottoman Empire lasted about 600 years. America is at 250 and counting. When America falls it will be a long time before the world sees anything like what she attempted again.


The changing of America is accelerating due to identity politics as you said. Also the new indoctrination that exceptionalism is a horrible thought/word too. I don’t quite get that because however flawed our way seems great to me and apparently others that want to come here.

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 Post subject: Re: Norway and Sweden
PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 11:39 am 
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America wrote:

The only redeeming quality of the USA is we have very good taste in sports and refuse to succumb to the gayness that is soccer.


It is the truth this man speaks.


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 Post subject: Re: Norway and Sweden
PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 1:15 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
I think the argument about where America is going can really be boiled down to whether we want to embrace European-style socialism or maintain individual freedom as the value that trumps all others. We've obviously been moving toward the former and when you look at the support for Bernie Sanders among young people it seems clear we're headed further in that direction.

I think I've posted enough here that you know I'm not some uber-capitalist. We can make whatever kind of world we want, theoretically anyway. The rub is that the brutality of capitalism works. There's the old saying, if a socialist understood economics he wouldn't be a socialist.


Capitalism works, at least more often than it doesn't, but we should still try to smooth some of that brutality away. Freedom is such a nebulous concept, anyway. There are all sorts of freedoms that come and go under different levels of capitalism.

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 Post subject: Re: Norway and Sweden
PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 3:00 pm 
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pittmike wrote:

The changing of America is accelerating due to identity politics as you said. Also the new indoctrination that exceptionalism is a horrible thought/word too. I don’t quite get that because however flawed our way seems great to me and apparently others that want to come here.


If something doesn't unify us, it's distinctly possible that we will split the nation up. That's happened enough in history to suggest that this is almost inevitable--unless we somehow get unified.

I wonder which resulting country or countries will have the hottest chicks?


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 Post subject: Re: Norway and Sweden
PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 10:58 pm 
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Curious Hair wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
I think the argument about where America is going can really be boiled down to whether we want to embrace European-style socialism or maintain individual freedom as the value that trumps all others. We've obviously been moving toward the former and when you look at the support for Bernie Sanders among young people it seems clear we're headed further in that direction.

I think I've posted enough here that you know I'm not some uber-capitalist. We can make whatever kind of world we want, theoretically anyway. The rub is that the brutality of capitalism works. There's the old saying, if a socialist understood economics he wouldn't be a socialist.


Capitalism works, at least more often than it doesn't, but we should still try to smooth some of that brutality away. Freedom is such a nebulous concept, anyway. There are all sorts of freedoms that come and go under different levels of capitalism.



I think it's difficult for us, especially for the younger guys, to understand how controversial the New Deal was and how it was viewed by many as the end of real freedom. All of my understanding of these concepts came from talking to my grandfather who was born in 1902. His understanding of freedom and America is the idea that there's this big country and you're free to make as much money as you can, you don't fuck with anyone, and no one fucks with you, and there are no guarantees. You take care of your own. You wipe your kid's butt and eventually he wipes yours. Nursing homes were anathema to these people.

It seems we've come to accept- even desire- government intrusion into our lives from the cradle to the grave. And I'm not judging here. I'm simply observing. I agree with you that it's best to sand off the rough edges of capitalism. The question is, how far do we go and at what point does it fail?

Europe is failing. Eventually, Germany will tire of its long self-flagellation for the Holocaust and begin flexing its economic muscle against its neighbors as it has always done historically. I would be shocked if the European Union doesn't collapse in my lifetime.

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 Post subject: Re: Norway and Sweden
PostPosted: Sun Jan 14, 2018 5:12 am 
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The European Union is Germany and Germany is the European Union. They've given up on Strasbourg, though EU parliament is very conspicuously located there, but they want their empire back.
[img]
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... rs.svg.png[/img]

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 Post subject: Re: Norway and Sweden
PostPosted: Sun Jan 14, 2018 5:44 am 
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I also don't think it's a conscious effort, just something they are naturally inclined to do.

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 Post subject: Re: Norway and Sweden
PostPosted: Sun Jan 14, 2018 6:57 am 
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One more thing, the environment. There needs to be some amount of central planning to protect the environment. Now too far in that direction is even worse than capitalism, as demonstrated by the Soviets, but it is still critical to limit consumers choices when it comes to products and services that cause more harm than good.

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 Post subject: Re: Norway and Sweden
PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 7:19 am 
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America wrote:
One more thing, the environment. There needs to be some amount of central planning to protect the environment.


Sure there should, if it's really about protecting the environment and the future of mankind on Earth.

But any proposed "answers" for climate change that I've heard are political rather than scientific. It's just a way to punish to U.S. for its wealth and power and to attempt to "even the playing field" rather than any real effort to actually address climate change. And even suggesting this- although it is clearly true- gets one branded a "denier".

If the "global community" (which doesn't actually exist and that's the real problem) is really serious about addressing anthropogenic climate change there shouldn't be separate rules for "emerging" economies and China (the U.S.'s biggest rival for global hegemony and the most aggressive colonial power of the 21st Century) while we hogtie American business with draconian regulation.

But hey, I feel bad for all the liberals who are embarrassed to go to Europe because the majority of member nations of the Nest of Anti-Semitism are constantly rebuking my country.

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 Post subject: Re: Norway and Sweden
PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 8:44 am 
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Yea I know. That's kind of the problem, whatever North America, Oceania and Europe do doesn't matter. The Russians, Chinese and Indians dont give a shred of a fuck.

It is very heartbreaking to go to Bavaria and see all these closed ski resorts in the middle of January when it is the Germans who recycle maniacally and exhaust every option for renewable energy. This country of 80 million really has this mindset that they are going to solve global warming and somehow, someway it'll lead to this culminating moment when the rest of the world will give Germany and its culture the respect they feel they've always been due. And you know, make up for some other stuff in their past.

The United States straddles the line a little bit. There really is no reason for all the plastic bags and massive pickups. Getting rid of that shit, and really rewriting the regulations on cars especially, are things the USA can do right now that wouldn't adversely affect the economy in any way.

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 Post subject: Re: Norway and Sweden
PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 8:50 am 
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norway is what it is today because they drilled the shit out of their oil anywhere and in any way. i'm down with that.


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