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 Post subject: Re: GarPax
PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2014 12:49 pm 
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long time guy wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
long time guy wrote:
I didn't know you considered Anthony a likely hall of fame interesting
Statistically he is on that pace. I don't know why it would be surprising.


Rick is right. Wade James and Anthony are in. The question should have been asked of Bosh. He might make it, surprisingly.
He's gone from ball stopping loser to hall of famer in a span of what 2 months that is quite an evolution that's all


I still think that way, but it's not relevant to his HoF credentials.

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 Post subject: Re: GarPax
PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2014 12:51 pm 
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long time guy wrote:
Don Tiny wrote:
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Its funny how sports inevitably devolves into a sociological experiment. Many of the people that are commenting about Doug McDermott probably haven't seen him play and point to his point production as a means of hiding their ignorance.


Well do accept my deepest apologies for questioning your learned analysis, Mr. Bollwinkel.
apology excepted


:lol: 8)

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 Post subject: Re: GarPax
PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2014 12:51 pm 
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See Allen Iverson. He has a Finals appearance though.

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 Post subject: Re: GarPax
PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2014 12:53 pm 
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good dolphin wrote:
He is not going to judged as a success in the NBA by his defense. We can agree on that.


Well, considering it's a Thibs team, individual defense isn't something they needed to worry about anyway ... over and above their needing someone, anyone, to score

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 Post subject: Re: GarPax
PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 7:34 pm 
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The Thunder are indeed paying into the revenue-sharing system, rare for such a tiny market, but they’re slated to make nearly $29 million in profit when everything is netted out. That’s the fifth-best projection in the league, trailing only the Lakers ($100.1 million), Bulls ($61 million), Rockets ($40.7 million), and Celtics ($33.1 million). Again: This memo does not capture the complete financial picture for any organization, but between this estimated profit and the general escalating value of all NBA franchises, it’s fair to take these numbers into account when debating the Thunder’s decision to trade James Harden and duck the luxury tax.

Pernicious myth my ass. The man is a cheap bastage.


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 Post subject: Re: GarPax
PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 7:36 pm 
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Yeah but I see JR's point of not paying luxury tax just to do it. Pay like a MF'er when you have a real chance.

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 Post subject: Re: GarPax
PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 7:42 pm 
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pittmike wrote:
Yeah but I see JR's point of not paying luxury tax just to do it. Pay like a MF'er when you have a real chance.

No no no no don't crap me now. You make fun of Ricketts for not spending when they don't have a "real chance". Don't excuse stingy Jerry.


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 Post subject: Re: GarPax
PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 7:48 pm 
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Staying under the luxury tax last year was huge. Now the Bulls can pay the luxury tax for the next 3 years without having to pay that huge penalty.

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 Post subject: Re: GarPax
PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 8:02 pm 
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Kirkwood wrote:
pittmike wrote:
Yeah but I see JR's point of not paying luxury tax just to do it. Pay like a MF'er when you have a real chance.

No no no no don't crap me now. You make fun of Ricketts for not spending when they don't have a "real chance". Don't excuse stingy Jerry.



I may have said Cubs can rebuild with a better payroll. I never said they should spend $200M now.

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 Post subject: Re: GarPax
PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 5:52 am 
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Kirkwood wrote:
pittmike wrote:
Yeah but I see JR's point of not paying luxury tax just to do it. Pay like a MF'er when you have a real chance.

No no no no don't crap me now. You make fun of Ricketts for not spending when they don't have a "real chance". Don't excuse stingy Jerry.
In 2013-2014, the Bulls had the fourth highest payroll in the league. Only the Heat, and the two dumb management teams in New York were paying more.

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 Post subject: Re: GarPax
PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 6:32 am 
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http://www.spotrac.com/cap-tracker/nba/2013/
Here they're 8th. All I know is they're like one of 4 teams to never have paid the tax.


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 Post subject: Re: GarPax
PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 6:39 am 
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Kirkwood wrote:
http://www.spotrac.com/cap-tracker/nba/2013/
Here they're 8th. All I know is they're like one of 4 teams to never have paid the tax.
Looks like I was looking at the opening day roster.
http://blog.surepayroll.com/nba-payrolls-2013-2014/

I believe the Deng trade knocked them down.

I don't know if cheap is the right word for not paying something called the "luxury tax" though. Also, how the hell are so many teams out there that paid the luxury tax? About half the NBA teams are pretty much garbage. Did the Pelicans or Bucks ever pay it?

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 Post subject: Re: GarPax
PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 6:40 am 
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Kirkwood wrote:
http://www.spotrac.com/cap-tracker/nba/2013/
Here they're 8th. All I know is they're like one of 4 teams to never have paid the tax.

They paid the tax a year ago.

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 Post subject: Re: GarPax
PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 6:45 am 
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Last year was there first year ever doing so?


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 Post subject: Re: GarPax
PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 7:21 am 
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Kirkwood wrote:
Last year was there first year ever doing so?


Yes. That is why the made sure they stayed away from it. The Jazz had to offer some assistance once it was clear Noah would reach his bonuses.

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 Post subject: Re: GarPax
PostPosted: Thu Jul 03, 2014 8:00 pm 
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veganfan21 wrote:
If they use their picks tonight, they've basically took themselves out of the Love sweepstakes, right? You can see which way I lean when it comes to the question of them taking the conventional route tonight or doing something bold, like fellow executive Daryl Morey. Morey has already out maneuvered them in clearing space and picking up a semi sweet (only protected 1-3) pick in the process.

You have two picks to do something bold, not to draft the future Jimmy Butler and Mike Dunleavy.

Quote:
This, however, is the way the Rockets do business. Players are basically commodities, objects to be manipulated in whatever way is necessary to further the ambitions of the front office. While on the surface that might seem like a perfectly good way to do business, it’s not a great way to build the kind of chemistry and family atmosphere that yields great relationships, and winning at an elite level is entirely about relationships. It’s why the San Antonio Spurs have been the West’s best team spanning three decades and it’s why LeBron James is sitting in Miami waiting for Pat Riley and the HEAT to figure out what they’re going to do to get back in the Finals. If it were just a business to LeBron and the HEAT, the two-time Finals MVP might already be fitted for a Chicago Bulls, Cleveland Cavaliers or Los Angeles Lakers jersey
Read more at http://www.basketballinsiders.com/houst ... id0rHVR.99

Morey is a clown who has won jackshit. Screw that dude


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 Post subject: Re: GarPax
PostPosted: Thu Jul 03, 2014 9:49 pm 
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Kirkwood wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
If they use their picks tonight, they've basically took themselves out of the Love sweepstakes, right? You can see which way I lean when it comes to the question of them taking the conventional route tonight or doing something bold, like fellow executive Daryl Morey. Morey has already out maneuvered them in clearing space and picking up a semi sweet (only protected 1-3) pick in the process.

You have two picks to do something bold, not to draft the future Jimmy Butler and Mike Dunleavy.

Quote:
This, however, is the way the Rockets do business. Players are basically commodities, objects to be manipulated in whatever way is necessary to further the ambitions of the front office. While on the surface that might seem like a perfectly good way to do business, it’s not a great way to build the kind of chemistry and family atmosphere that yields great relationships, and winning at an elite level is entirely about relationships. It’s why the San Antonio Spurs have been the West’s best team spanning three decades and it’s why LeBron James is sitting in Miami waiting for Pat Riley and the HEAT to figure out what they’re going to do to get back in the Finals. If it were just a business to LeBron and the HEAT, the two-time Finals MVP might already be fitted for a Chicago Bulls, Cleveland Cavaliers or Los Angeles Lakers jersey
Read more at http://www.basketballinsiders.com/houst ... id0rHVR.99

Morey is a clown who has won jackshit. Screw that dude


I don't agree with the article's human or commodity dichotomy. Virtually every team does business this way. The Rockets will trade Lin or whomever the second Melo indicates he wants to sign, but the Bulls are doing the same thing with Boozer, and Miami did the same when they traded away guys to create room for LBJ and Bosh. The only thing the Rockets are guilty of is being too dumb to figure this out before it became a problem. I think the Bulls and Rockets should have went with numberless jerseys.

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 Post subject: Re: GarPax
PostPosted: Thu Jul 03, 2014 9:55 pm 
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Ben Gordon was in the building too and I heard that he was pissed. So pissed he signed a $9M deal with the Magic.

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 Post subject: Re: GarPax
PostPosted: Sun Jul 20, 2014 10:23 am 
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So...justified thread or not?

The juiciest rumors just before and during free agency included the Bulls acquiring one or more of the following players:

Melo
Love
Affalo

Once it was all said and done, they ended up with Doug McDermott the 34 year old Gasol. I'm not going to mention Mirotic here because he was already a Bull, it just so happened he will play for them this year.

I actually am looking forward to the potential depth we have going on here if McDermott and Mirotic turn out to be great finds. On the other hand this is still a team that will rely on Rose to do a majority of the shot creation.

I'm not sure what else they could have done to get Melo, but with him delaying signing with the Knicks indicates that he was definitely there for the taking. I hope the Bulls explored cutting Taj loose to seal the deal with Melo, even though Melo likes Taj. You do not keep Taj over Melo. It seemed like the Bulls could get closer to Melo's neighborhood in terms of money if they got rid of Taj, but 70-whatever million was simply not going to cut it. That's like shopping for a Bentley with enough money for a Civic...get real, you can't shop here with that.

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 Post subject: Re: GarPax
PostPosted: Sun Jul 20, 2014 10:49 am 
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Ultimately he would have left $14M on the table if they kept Taj. It's not my money but I am pretty sure basketball players leave more than that on the table all the time. Looking at the East now his addition would have locked it up for the Bulls. They're still going into the season as the favorite to come out of the East.

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 Post subject: Re: GarPax
PostPosted: Sun Jul 20, 2014 11:05 am 
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Until Love is in Cleveland.
Also (and I haven't been around much the past month so I don't know if y'all have talked about this) the fact that LeBron went back to Cleveland gave Melo a perfect reason to go back to NY: the Cleveland move made the east wide open (for the moment), so with the redistribution of the East's wealth, the Knicks should be playoff contenders with him and that's about all the expectations there. In Chicago, the expectations would be much higher.

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 Post subject: Re: GarPax
PostPosted: Sun Jul 20, 2014 11:10 am 
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Psycory wrote:
Until Love is in Cleveland.
Also (and I haven't been around much the past month so I don't know if y'all have talked about this) the fact that LeBron went back to Cleveland gave Melo a perfect reason to go back to NY: the Cleveland move made the east wide open (for the moment), so with the redistribution of the East's wealth, the Knicks should be playoff contenders with him and that's about all the expectations there. In Chicago, the expectations would be much higher.


It removed a superpower but the East got better and the Knicks didn't. The Hornets may be a top 4 team and even after losing the best player in the world Miami is still better. The Knicks are a lottery team. They're somewhere around the 10th or 11th best team.

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Last edited by Nas on Sun Jul 20, 2014 11:14 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: GarPax
PostPosted: Sun Jul 20, 2014 11:12 am 
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Nas wrote:
Psycory wrote:
Until Love is in Cleveland.
Also (and I haven't been around much the past month so I don't know if y'all have talked about this) the fact that LeBron went back to Cleveland gave Melo a perfect reason to go back to NY: the Cleveland move made the east wide open (for the moment), so with the redistribution of the East's wealth, the Knicks should be playoff contenders with him and that's about all the expectations there. In Chicago, the expectations would be much higher.


I removed a superpower but the East got better and the Knicks didn't. The Hornets may be a top 4 team and even after losing the best player in the world Miami is still better. The Knicks are a lottery team. They're somewhere around the 10th or 11th best team.

That's my point, sorta. That they have low expectations. He gets them in the playoffs and it's a success. I wonder if he could handle higher expectations.

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 Post subject: Re: GarPax
PostPosted: Sun Jul 20, 2014 11:15 am 
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Psycory wrote:
Nas wrote:
Psycory wrote:
Until Love is in Cleveland.
Also (and I haven't been around much the past month so I don't know if y'all have talked about this) the fact that LeBron went back to Cleveland gave Melo a perfect reason to go back to NY: the Cleveland move made the east wide open (for the moment), so with the redistribution of the East's wealth, the Knicks should be playoff contenders with him and that's about all the expectations there. In Chicago, the expectations would be much higher.


I removed a superpower but the East got better and the Knicks didn't. The Hornets may be a top 4 team and even after losing the best player in the world Miami is still better. The Knicks are a lottery team. They're somewhere around the 10th or 11th best team.

That's my point, sorta. That they have low expectations. He gets them in the playoffs and it's a success. I wonder if he could handle higher expectations.


That's a great question. Maybe he can't handle higher expectations and winning a championship really isn't that important to him.

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 Post subject: Re: GarPax
PostPosted: Sun Jul 20, 2014 11:26 am 
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The next time there's a huge free agent class, I'd like to see them cut ties with the unrealistic top players and sign two mid-level free agents. For example, this team would have been the best team in the East, IMO, if they'd gotten Afflalo, Gasol, and Augustin. They're still close, but it's those little signings that make a big difference, and those are usually forfeited when going after the top guys. Think Patty Mills.

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 Post subject: Re: GarPax
PostPosted: Sun Jul 20, 2014 11:36 am 
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leashyourkids wrote:
The next time there's a huge free agent class, I'd like to see them cut ties with the unrealistic top players and sign two mid-level free agents. For example, this team would have been the best team in the East, IMO, if they'd gotten Afflalo, Gasol, and Augustin. They're still close, but it's those little signings that make a big difference, and those are usually forfeited when going after the top guys. Think Patty Mills.


I would have preferred Stephenson and I definitely would have kept Augustin. With Mirotic coming over and already having Taj on the roster I really see no point in having Gasol. There won't be enough minutes for all 3 of them.

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 Post subject: Re: GarPax
PostPosted: Sun Jul 20, 2014 12:43 pm 
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Yes, I forgot Stephenson, though I don't know if their pursuit of Melo hindered the signing of him or not.

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 Post subject: Re: GarPax
PostPosted: Sun Jul 20, 2014 1:39 pm 
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Nas wrote:

I would have preferred Stephenson and I definitely would have kept Augustin. With Mirotic coming over and already having Taj on the roster I really see no point in having Gasol. There won't be enough minutes for all 3 of them.


stephenson's what they need physically but do you really think he would've gelled with thibs? it seems like that'd be an oil and water mixture.


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 Post subject: Re: GarPax
PostPosted: Sun Jul 20, 2014 2:07 pm 
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I do. I think they're both a little off but what would unite them is their desire to win. I would also expect a 23 year old to mature.

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 Post subject: Re: GarPax
PostPosted: Sun Jul 20, 2014 3:18 pm 
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leashyourkids wrote:
The next time there's a huge free agent class, I'd like to see them cut ties with the unrealistic top players and sign two mid-level free agents. For example, this team would have been the best team in the East, IMO, if they'd gotten Afflalo, Gasol, and Augustin. They're still close, but it's those little signings that make a big difference, and those are usually forfeited when going after the top guys. Think Patty Mills.


I've thought along similar lines elsewhere but said it differently. Basically if the Bulls are going to be shut out - for whatever reason - during free agency periods, then it's probably time to start strategizing like you're a mid-market team, like Memphis or San Antonio perhaps, if they haven't already. Talent acquisition should focus on investing a ton of resources into college scouting, and scouring the NBA landscape for, as you said, mid-level free agents that provide top value.

Assuming Rose is still a star, they've got to beef up the roster's "middle-class" talent in order to complete. Mirotic, the rookie, Gasol, and perhaps a new Snell might just do that...best case scenario.

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