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PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 2:52 pm 
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I don't think him losing is that big of a deal because wins and losses don't really matter anymore, but you won't be able to recreate the magic of this unstoppable mega beast after losing in his first match. I thought he was in damn good shape too. Definitely had more cardio than Rock at Mania.

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Remember when I insisted he's just not a good athlete? Exhibit Q.

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Drop In wrote:
I'm picturing a 12 year old Bob Loblaw bitching out a Randy Savage Wrestling Buddy for botching his finisher. Also envisioning Bob Loblaw getting bitched at for lighting the living room table on fire for said finisher.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 2:56 pm 
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Bob Loblaw wrote:
No problem at all.

I was thinking he went long on the leap and was going for a flying punch or forearm. Either way I about shit when he clutched his knee.


I figured it was supposed to be the eventual spot with Cena hitting him with the chain, but obviously not. Oh well, worked out.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 2:56 pm 
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There's so much going on in that last picture, I don't even know where to start.

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I would cover for SHARK, Drop In, Dave in Champaign, my Mom, and Urlacher's Missing Neck. After that, the list gets pretty thin. There are a few people about whom I would definitely fabricate charges.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 2:57 pm 
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Who dat?

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 3:05 pm 
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No clue who it is, I just stumbled across it. That kid is something though. Makes me feel like a better parent.

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Drop In wrote:
I'm picturing a 12 year old Bob Loblaw bitching out a Randy Savage Wrestling Buddy for botching his finisher. Also envisioning Bob Loblaw getting bitched at for lighting the living room table on fire for said finisher.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 3:10 pm 
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There it little doubt that he is a juggalo.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 3:11 pm 
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Urlacher's missing neck wrote:
There it little doubt that he is a juggalo.


:lol: 4 Life

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Drop In wrote:
I'm picturing a 12 year old Bob Loblaw bitching out a Randy Savage Wrestling Buddy for botching his finisher. Also envisioning Bob Loblaw getting bitched at for lighting the living room table on fire for said finisher.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 3:13 pm 
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He looks like Turtle from Entourage's kid if he reproduced in a nuclear plant.

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Telegram Sam wrote:
I would cover for SHARK, Drop In, Dave in Champaign, my Mom, and Urlacher's Missing Neck. After that, the list gets pretty thin. There are a few people about whom I would definitely fabricate charges.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 3:54 pm 
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Terry's Peeps wrote:
I really don't think Lesnar losing is that big of a deal.


Well,I might be jumping the gun. Let's see what is done with him tonight. I never seen someone comeback to a huge moment like Lesner did and then lose his first match.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 4:12 pm 
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Well, that match was a something .... it had all 3 components - hot crowd, great announcing (even by Cole - liked how he did the Pat Hughes gimmick at the onset describing their attire - small thing like that can really make a given event seem more important), and the two really told a hell of a story (the hardway blood didn't exactly hurt things either) ... would it were so that more matches came off that well.

And thanks for the link Bob.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 6:19 pm 
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:shock: :shock:

http://ibnlive.in.com/news/wwe-extreme- ... 451-2.html

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I would cover for SHARK, Drop In, Dave in Champaign, my Mom, and Urlacher's Missing Neck. After that, the list gets pretty thin. There are a few people about whom I would definitely fabricate charges.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 6:23 pm 
Drop In wrote:

ooooops


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 6:31 pm 
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Whoa...

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 6:35 pm 
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:lol: ^

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I actually thought Layla looked awesome. You can tell she really worked her ass off in her time off.

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Drop In wrote:
I'm picturing a 12 year old Bob Loblaw bitching out a Randy Savage Wrestling Buddy for botching his finisher. Also envisioning Bob Loblaw getting bitched at for lighting the living room table on fire for said finisher.


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PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2012 3:23 pm 
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For the last two years, when the subject of modern wrestling is brought up, noted legend (and WWE stockholder) Terry Funk
would almost always bring up that pro wrestling needs a Johnny Valentine.

Old-timers, like the Funks, Jack Brisco, and the other top guys of the early 70s all ranked the father of Greg Valentine as one of
the five best men they were ever in the ring with, and when you consider how many different people those
men were in the ring with touring in a business that employed tons more talent, that’s quite the praise.
Valentine’s philosophy was, “I can’t make them think wrestling is real, but I sure can make them think I’m real.”

Terry Funk got his wish a few weeks back when WWE signed Brock Lesnar. Sure, Lesnar had a run as a top guy in pro
wrestling, youngest world champion in WWE history at the time, but he gained far more stardom as UFC champion, enough
that he could command more than five times the money for less than one-tenth of the dates than he could the last time he and
WWE were in negotiations and WWE thought they had a deal about five years ago.

A lot has come out of Extreme Rules and the decision to beat Lesnar in his first PPV match. Perhaps it’ll be something, like the
WCW Invasion angle or Eric Bischoff’s shocking debut on Raw where the first thing he did was hug Vince McMahon, pissing
away what would have been the most elementary and obvious feud. For all the success WWE has had in wrestling, two of the
things on Vince McMahon’s track record is that he usually doesn’t do well in outside businesses, and he sucks when it comes
to angles that the real world has handed him as gimmees as opposed to ones he came up with on his own. Still, in his
mentality, this should not have fallen into that category. In McMahon’s mind, he made Lesnar, and to a degree, he did, even if he
got bigger when he left.

And the promotion of Lesnar was perfect. He was portrayed as something very different from any other wrestler to come along.
Unlike Ken Shamrock, a UFC star of another era who they trained to be a pro wrestler, Lesnar came in as a pro wrestler turned
UFC fighter who was brought back as a UFC fighter in pro wrestling. He got his sponsors, his board shorts, and with a most
willing dance partner, John Cena, got to bust people up legitimately in a way that nobody in WWE has ever been allowed to do,
let alone encouraged to do.

In return, Cena may have found a way to be cheered in a way that television and PPV crowds have stopped doing for him for
years. The adult male demo, that hated him for whatever reason you choose, were taken for an emotional ride to the point they
were probably cheering him without even fully understanding why. But Cena, with his millions in the bank, and millions more to
come, at 35 years old, was willing to be busted up to make his new foe into a different level threat.

One can question Cena then beating Lesnar in his first match in all day long, particularly since the match was absolutely
perfect, until the finish, in making Lesnar into that something special and different. Cena vs. Lesnar had a level of suspension
of disbelief that no WWE match has had in years, not even the Cena vs. Punk match came close. It’s not something you can
replicate, because if you did, you’d have no wrestlers left to perform very quickly. Lesnar knocked Cena silly and busted him
open right away with hard elbows to the forehead. Cena was covered in his own blood, a level of bloodletting unfamiliar in the
modern WWE. Lesnar came in to a level of cheers that almost nobody short of Hulk Hogan or The Rock would get a few weeks
ago, but now he was a heel the level that nobody had been in a WWE ring dating back to the days it was WWWF. He had
completely replicated the UFC Brock Lesnar who talked into Las Vegas against Frank Mir and Randy Couture, where he
represented an affront to the religion of an audience that thought their guys were real and he was fake, except the scariest thing
of all, is that very quickly they realized he wasn’t. And it happened again.

If UFC could script outcomes, and Lesnar wasn’t so difficult to work with, he’d have been champion, dominated for so long
there would be a natural babyface turn, and eventually lose when it was the right time, after a several year run, to the right guy,
and the one loss alone, like when Sammartino lost to Graham, would keep business strong. But they can’t. WWE can.
But the truth is, the decision can be argued. The argument is this. What is Lesnar here for? Many years back, when Vince
McMahon was negotiating for Lennox Lewis, the boxing champion, to face Lesnar, his hope to be the next big star, you could
make an argument that for money, Lewis winning and then Lesnar coming back to beat him later would mean more. But
nobody thought of it that way. The match fell through because Lewis realized Lesnar was more real than he was looking for,
wanted a bunch of rule changes, and it became an unbookable match. The only thought, and this match was going to be a
shoot, is that our guy who isn’t as big a star, beats the guy who is a bigger star, and gets credibility for it.
Some people thought McMahon was paying Lesnar all that money to do something stars were aligned for with Cena, HHH,
Undertaker, The Rock and Steve Austin all potential big money matches. Run through several of them, become the hottest heel
they’ve ever had, and then lose at WrestleMania.

Instead, the mentality was that we spent tons of money on this guy who has credibility and can garner attention, and how can
we best use him to get our guys over. Well, come across as a threat, beat the holy shit out of him, and then our guy makes the
comeback and beats him. First time.
The decision to put Cena over at Extreme Rules in Chicago’s All-State Arena on 4/29 was made probably before the match was
announced. Lesnar was told at least two weeks ahead of time. He’s made it clear that he’s about the money, not the ego, and if
they want him to lose, he has no problem with it as long as they play fair with him. Does that mean he’ll make tons of demands
and be high maintenance? Well, he’s still Brock Lesnar. When that segment on Raw that ended the 4/23 show where Lesnar
was making all the demands of John Laurinaitis was airing, I was thinking of people in UFC, because that was way too close to
real life. Granted, the live audience didn’t get that and many were bored. The segment did play into the angle setting up
presumably his next match with HHH, so in hindsight, it was part of a logical story. And today, we should be thankful for that
because it’s the exception in modern booking rather than the rule.

Coming off the high of WrestleMania, and the natural post-Mania drop, Lesnar was the perfect direction to go with. They went
from the glib entertaining charismatic foe for Cena to the scary ass kicker, who can give the vibe of being real.
Should Cena have been first, because the build and the anticipation is the real money and the capture is the end of the story
and the segway to start a new story? Should Cena vs. Lesnar have been at SummerSlam if it was going first? Should Lesnar
have won the first win setting up Cena getting his win in a year? All very valid questions.

But Vince was thinking differently. And it’s not unheard of. The Johnny Valentine of the next generation was Bruiser Brody. Brody
had a very unique philosophy, which included throwing stiff kicks–not every time–but when the audience had its guard down,
and thus would be shocked. Work a few, they think they’re seeing a fake pro wrestling match, and wham, all of a sudden the
entire building changes. They think it’s a fight. It’s far more difficult to do that today. But Lesnar showed in the Cena match that
it’s not impossible. But unfortunately, the level Brody had to go was enough that guys would be banged up, but they could work
the next day, and the day after. To do that today, yes, it’s possible, but there are health concerns in the process. And let’s face it,
Undertaker, Austin and The Rock are not letting this guy bust them up with shoot elbows and put his body and most of his
power into knocking the wind out of them with a hard knee to the body. Still, Lesnar did bring a new dynamic and just coming
out, he brings something out of the crowd that no heel has done in the company in recent times.

How much it could have been worth is something we’ll never know, just how we’ll never know what would have happened had
Vince followed his original vision in 2001 after buying WCW, and the Tacoma crowd didn’t cause him to do a 180. PPV
numbers, both here and at SummerSlam should give us an idea. Our poll of people who purchased the PPV, after the Lesnar
loss, had 23% saying they were not buying another PPV. 11% more said they probably would not buy another but it’s not
impossible to change their minds. 14% more said they would buy SummerSlam if he headlines, but not another “B” show. 19%
buy WWE PPVs all the time, Lesnar or not. Another 19% would consider buying another show based on Lesnar headlining, but
it would depend on the build. And another 15% said they would definitely buy the next show Lesnar headlines.

That would appear to be SummerSlam, against HHH, based on an angle shot the next day in Dayton where Lesnar used a
Kimura, given that name instead of its pro wrestling term, the double wristlock, to “break the arm” of HHH in storyline. Because
Lesnar used so many of his limited dates (five already in the first month), he’s probably going to be around sparingly if at all. It
would make sense from here to go with Lesnar vs. HHH, and since HHH is largely retired, to give Lesnar a big win to start
building him for a match with Rock, Austin or Undertaker at Mania. According to those close to the situation, it was made clear
to Lesnar and Cena that this was a one match program, Cena gets his win, because that story of the babyface taking the
ungodly beating and coming back to win has been told. Maybe it could have been months long, or a year long, and more money
could have been drawn, but they felt that in real life, as opposed to storyline, Lesnar could leave at any time. They felt needed
their top guy getting the win first time out to make sure it happened. They weren’t in the business of booking multiple Lesnar vs.
Cena matches. They decided to only do one. And Cena probably is the guy who should beat Lesnar, but it also should have
been at the end of the run, not the beginning. But you do have the New Japan example, where Lesnar was brought in, beat
everyone and was to lose the IWGP title to Hiroshi Tanahashi. And instead, that never happened. In fairness to Lesnar, they cut
his pay before the match so he decided not to return for less money than the original deal. But business wise, that’s the same
Lesnar but a completely different game. This Lesnar after being UFC champion is multiple times the star of the New Japan
version. And he’s also making even more multiple times the money, which is a factor that makes it a lot less likely he’ll bail
ahead of time.

Last year’s Extreme Rules show did 108,000 domestic buys. Given that aside from Mania, the general trend is down, a base
show without Lesnar would have probably doing in the 98,000 range. If Lesnar vs. Cena means as much as C.M. Punk’s
threatening to quit and promo work, they hit 146,000. If it’s more, and it should be by a lot, and needs to be given what they are
paying him, then Lesnar’s first time in had substantial drawing power. The thing is, the more added people Lesnar drew, the
more they did hurt themselves having him lose. If this shows up and does 200,000, he’s got some huge drawing power
because Rock couldn’t do that at Survivor Series and Punk couldn’t do that with one of the best angles WWE has done in years.
If that happens, unless SummerSlam comes in and hits a very sizable increase from last year, then most likely the loss will
have hurt. But if it does in the 130,000 range, while he would have drawn some extra fans, it’s not a ton extra, so he’s likely not
drawing a ton extra at SummerSlam, whether he won or lost.

Our poll numbers were way up, but that’s to be expected. This kind of an angle hits our audience far more than the mainstream,
just like the Punk angle did. Our numbers were 5% lower than for Punk vs. Cena last year, but I don’t read anything into that.
Punk has never made a difference in a PPV number since, and he was put over. With Lesnar, there are so many dynamics in
play.

But Vince’s attitude is not unprecedented, harkening back to Brody. Antonio Inoki always wanted to beat Brody from day one
which led to all sorts of problems and eventually the relationship falling apart even though Brody was making ridiculous money
based on that era. But that’s how Inoki did business.

In arguably New Japan’s biggest angle of its history, when the world champion shooter Nobuhiko Takada (amazing how much
perceptions can change when reality interjects with fake reality) faced world champion Keiji Muto at the Tokyo Dome, doing at
the time the biggest gate in history (and still among the biggest for pro wrestling), New Japan made the call that their guy won
the first time. A lot of people argued with that, but wrestling was hot enough at the time and Takada was over enough that they
got two more Dome sellouts. Takada won the title in the rematch, and then Shinya Hashimoto represented the home team and
won the company’s world title back.

But years later, in a similar situation–the first All Japan vs. New Japan singles main event, Toshiaki Kawada vs. Kensuke
Sasaki, New Japan put the outsider over. In doing so, they got a sellout the second time as well. But after Sasaki went over in
the rematch, Kawada was never anywhere close to the level of a draw for New Japan again.

But uncertainty was another issue. In Memphis, when Jerry Lawler was top dog and would face a newcomer for a long
program, he’d almost always lose the first time, sometimes the second time, but talk people into coming back and in the end
he’d get his win. But with Brody, because of the uncertainty of how long Brody would stay, when he went to Memphis, they really
pushed for Brody to lose right away. As it turned out, I don’t even know that they ever had a singles match. If they did, the whole
program only lasted a few weeks and nobody ever beat the other so from a storytelling standpoint it didn’t have strong
beginning or ending because Brody wasn’t going to lose because of Japan, and for Lawler, except for the uniqueness of having
him in some tags, they couldn’t do a singles program for that reason.

The match itself was phenomenal, but again, it’s a one-time thing that really couldn’t be duplicated. My thought going in was
that the key to this match was to build Lesnar for bigger money matches, which means not risking a long match, and having
him go over strong. It was worked perfectly, and not only that, was such a great match without hurting Lesnar at all, at least in
the body of the match, that going long was not just to the benefit of the match, but would have been to the benefit of long-term
business. The finish is what it was. They had their reasons for the call. It was the wrong call for long-term business if Lesnar
was staying long enough to get a few wins and build for a meaningful loss at the end. If Lesnar is gone before SummerSlam,
it’s the right call.

And just after the match ended, something happened. This is the description. Lesnar was furious and making a scene. During
the match, in the latter stages, Lesnar did a springboard flying clothesline to Cena, and inadvertently, he flew over the top rope
with Cena, which was not his plan. He landed awkwardly on his leg, and at first appeared to blow out his knee. Apparently he
was okay, because after getting an “oh shit” look on his face, he limped a few steps, then kept going and stopped limping. After
the match he was complaining that Cena pulled down the rope, which caused him to fly over the top, and nearly blow out his
knee.

In addition, when he was given the finish, he was told he was being protected because he was destroying Cena, that Cena
would get the win, collapse, and have to be helped out of the ring and left for dead. Instead, Cena did a weird promo that based
on what we were told, he was not authorized to do. Everyone backstage, including Vince McMahon either had no idea what he
was doing (and it was not in the script for the show), or maybe Vince knew and was pretending. But given how it turned out, I’d
bet on the former. In the interview, Cena talked about how much he gave for the match, and he did, how he was now going on
vacation for a while. He talked about how everyone in WWE, good guys, bad guys, big guys and small guys, do everything they
can to entertain you people. He said he was proud he could have a match like this in Chicago, and that if he’s leaving for a
while, he wouldn’t want to have gone out any other way.

Then he was back on TV the next day, and announced as being the main event of the next PPV show, the 5/20 Over the Limit
show in Raleigh that features Cena vs. John Laurinaitis, C.M. Punk vs. Daniel Bryan for the WWE title and while not announced
yet, the plan was also for Sheamus vs. Alberto Del Rio for the world title.

Lesnar complained that he was double-crossed, said he was quitting and when Mark Carrano (who works under Laurinaitis in
the Talent Relations department) tried to calm him down, Lesnar reportedly told him to do what the old DX catch phrase was,
but not in comedic terms.

As far as what is and isn’t legit, everyone will interpret their own way. Carrano was said to be giving orders to Lesnar at that
moment, and Lesnar was very mad about a lot of different things that happened and that the only time he came even close to
wanting to quit was all due to how Carrano acted around him. Even those who insist the Lesnar quitting was a partial work say
Carrano was not part of it and Lesnar was ready to quit over him. But that had nothing to do with what happened in the ring.
Another person said Lesnar wasn’t mad or felt double-crossed on the promo in reality life, but he was legitimately upset over a
number of things that happened during the match. But any talk of quitting past the Carrano deal was just to play into the angle
that was supposed to happen. But that ended up being tweaked, as he never quit on the show. Instead, after breaking HHH’s
arm in storyline, the only thing said is he was kicked out of the building by security. Announcer Michael Cole said that he was
almost surely being fired, which is carny for tune in next week and see how they get out of it but he’ll be back for the grudge
match.

Others have said both Cena and Lesnar were knocked silly from stiffing each other in the match, and Cena’s weird promo may
have been because he was on auto pilot by that point in time from all the shots to the head during the match. Lesnar took a
Cena chain shot that was hard enough to legitimately bust him open hard way to set up the finish.
The show drew a legitimate sellout announced at 14,817 fans to The All-State Arena, which was 11,500 paying more than
$700,000.

Overall, it was a strong show in the sense it really was a three-match card and all three matches were very good to excellent.
There was a lot of filler, quickies designed to just get Brodus Clay and Ryback quick wins and change the Divas title, which was
quite the story itself.

The Bella Twins contract expired the next day, and they opted not to ink a new deal. They are now taking a variety of autograph
show dates as “Nicole & Brianna Garcia, formerly the Bella Twins.” The booking idea was for Nikki Bella to beat Beth Phoenix
for the title, and then drop it to the returning Kharma, with the idea that it would build Phoenix vs. Kharma as this big-time
women’s match. Understanding that, which makes sense, the idea was to hold off on that match and thus you needed Phoenix
losing the title (with the ankle injury as an explanation) to someone to get it on Kharma and build Phoenix for the chase.
Simple enough. The only problem is, WWE is now at the point where if an angle gets out, they are going to change it. This came
off clumsy, as Phoenix did the injury angle and WWE sold it like it was a major injury, possibly a broken ankle. A couple of days
later, the story changed that it wasn’t major, and that she had been cleared to wrestle and would be back getting a rematch with
Nikki at the PPV. Then, on the show, Eve Torres said the match wouldn’t happen because she wasn’t cleared, even though she
had been cleared days earlier in their storyline. Then Torres said she had a mystery opponent that hasn’t been around in a
while, but then, in a wink to show our report was wrong, said, “It’s not Kharma.” Kharma hadn’t been around for nearly a year
aside from a brief cameo at the Rumble, and in her next to last appearance, was harassed and teased about being fat and ugly
by the Bella Twins since she was pregnant and they knew she couldn’t fight them. Given the contract situation, they had exactly
two dates, the PPV and Raw the next day, to pay off that storyline, and decided not to and instead did something that nobody
could have cared about just for the silliest of reasons possible.

So they brought out Layla, who won the title to no reaction. She retained it in a three-way against the twins at Raw, and then in a
segment on the web site, the Twins were fired. The firing was announced on the air, with the line by Cole to check the web site
to see why.

The show also featured the new concept of a 30 minute Youtube pre-game show featuring Santino Marella vs. The Miz for the
U.S. title. Miz was in the ring and was cutting a long promo, which was pretty clear was to stall so they could gather enough
viewers who wouldn’t have tuned in right away. The gist of the promo was that how last year he was in the main event at
Extreme Rules (vs. Cena), and the reason Laurinaitis has all this power now is because of him, since he was the one who won
the match for Team Johnny at WrestleMania. But now he’s stuck in a pre-show match. That was all well and good, but boy did
that bury the U.S. title ten feet deep when Miz is complaining about getting a title shot. For reasons I can’t understand, even with
a live pre-show match, the barker channel ran an old tape with Scott Stanford. Even TNA, when it does a live 30 minute pregame
shoot, can get it on the barker channel, where it’s going to be far more effective in moving orders than on Youtube,
particularly if you advertise it ahead of time. Marella vs. Miz had 55,000 viewers when the match started and 63,000 when it
ended.

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I'm picturing a 12 year old Bob Loblaw bitching out a Randy Savage Wrestling Buddy for botching his finisher. Also envisioning Bob Loblaw getting bitched at for lighting the living room table on fire for said finisher.


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