In all honesty, it's like JORR never saw Jordan play. No one in their right mind is taking Shaq over him.

I'm pretty sure that's wrong. I think if you were drafting all players in NBA history at their peak and all the top GMs in history were participating, all three of the big men I mentioned plus a few others would be taken ahead of Jordan.

I've never seen a credible ranking of players that puts Shaq ahead of Jordan.

There are other players who may have a case to be equal or better than Jordan. Shaq is not one of them.

And that would be a terrible argument. Especially considering Shaq shot 58% compared to Jordan's 51%. We can't get around the fact that it's a game where size matters.

Shaq is the most criminally underrated player in NBA history.

Shaq is the most criminally underrated player in NBA history.

That doesn't mean he is the best player ever.

Is Jordan a top 10 player?

Shaq was a dominant scorer and is one of the greatest players of all-time. That said, he had some glaring weaknesses. He was a huge liability late in the game due to free throws. Having him on your team means you had no choice but to play at a slower pace. He was also not dominant on the defensive end.

Think about it - Jordan affected everything on the court, didn't slow down the tempo (like big centers do)

Yes.

It seems like you want to award style points because an up-tempo game is what you prefer to watch.

Shaq is the most criminally underrated player in NBA history.

What was Jordan's? What about Lebron?

I thought height matters? Who on your list is ahead of Jordan?

Jordan was often exploited defensively by quick little guards.

LeBron may be as complete a player as the NBA has seen, but I would say he doesn't have the killer instinct of a Jordan. His backers will portray it as an attribute- "unselfishness"- but I wold argue that if you're the best player on the court and you want to be seen that way, you're not supposed to be looking to Irving or Wade to take the last shot.

Height does matter. The greatest big man is necessarily better than the greatest guard. However, you are not greater than Calvin Murphy.

Joe, you are in full MondayMorningTroll Mode, and I laud you for that.

But, assuming this is an actual argument, I am going to tell you that nobody in their right minds takes Jordan anything other than #1. Shaq, Wilt, Kareem - they are all dependent on someone else getting them the ball, and they are the LAST LINE of defense. Jordan does what he wants, when he wants, on both ends of the court, and had the athletic ability to play 4 of the 5 positions.

Lastly, Jordan is the baddest motherfucker on the planet and would rip each of these guys throats out (the ones who he got to face saw that firsthand) - even Wilt. Wilt was big and bad for his time, and I would take him over any big man but Shaq, or maybe Bill Russel, but MJ would work circles around him and make him shoot granny free throws all day if he wanted to score.

This is a non-argument.

The argument starts at who is chosen #2.

This is a typical argument from the Chicagoan of a certain age. It's like it's a fact that was written on the stone tablets carried by Moses- JORDAN IS THE GREATEST AND THOU SHALT ACCEPT NO ARGUMENT TO THE CONTRARY.

Jordan was often exploited defensively by quick little guards.

Your argument is literally that he wasn't as tall as other players. That is why it isn't being accepted.

No, it's not. Your argument, though you won't acknowledge it, is that the accomplishments of the big men have to be graded on some sort of curve because of their size.

I realize it's more exciting to see Jordan flying through the air than it is to see Shaq get the ball under the basket and slam it through. It's just not more effective.

Your argument is literally that he wasn't as tall as other players. That is why it isn't being accepted.

No, it's not. Your argument, though you won't acknowledge it, is that the accomplishments of the big men have to be graded on some sort of curve because of their size.

I realize it's more exciting to see Jordan flying through the air than it is to see Shaq get the ball under the basket and slam it through. It's just not more effective.

Brady is the GOAT.
How do you even really argue against it?

I have to agree with Rick here. You haven't really given an argument other than "taller players are automatically better."

You don't want to compare the accomplishments of Jordan vs. Shaq. You will lose.

Are you certain about that?