It is currently Fri Mar 29, 2024 7:35 am

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 79 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2017 9:34 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 20, 2006 9:15 pm
Posts: 48754
Location: Bohemian Club Annual World Power Consolidation Conference & Golf Outing
pizza_Place: World Fluoridation Conspiracy Pizza & WINGS!
Nas wrote:
Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
Shot in the dark, but what about Steve McNair? He was a blast to watch.


Steve Young was better than all these guys.


I don't disagree but he got to learn from arguably the greatest QB ever (at that time) and he had weapons every QB dreams about.


But he didn't get to play until he was 30.

Vick was striving to be Steve Young. He never got there.

_________________
https://twitter.com/DrKenCast


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2017 9:34 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu May 28, 2009 11:10 am
Posts: 42094
Location: Rock Ridge (splendid!)
pizza_Place: Charlie Fox's / Paisano's
Consider Vick playing in a time where you could still kill a man on the field, then consider Cunningham playing with the relatively molly-coddled rules of today.

Other pointless anecdotal 'evidence' ... in college we played Madden for $ for a 'season' with playoffs and a championship (I lost the SB) ... the 'better' players were disallowed from using Cunningham

_________________
Power is always in the hands of the masses of men. What oppresses the masses is their own ignorance, their own short-sighted selfishness.
- Henry George


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2017 9:35 pm 
Offline
100000 CLUB
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 8:06 pm
Posts: 76695
pizza_Place: 773-684-2222
RFDC wrote:
Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote:
Vick was never a consistent passer.

Cunningham wasn't great but you had to respect it. And he was better than Vick.

Running, at their peak, was pretty even. Vick was flashier with a better arm.

C'mon. Vick was clearly the superior runner. Did Cunningham ever line up as a RB more than once a game? Vick did, when he was 30 years old.


Disagree. Cunningham was dangerous running the ball.

He just didn't look like Barry Sanders when he was doing it. He killed teams with his legs.

All that is true and Vick was still clearly superior. Cam Newton kills guys running the ball. Vick was clearly better than him too.


Clearly superior at what exactly? I'd say they were equally effective running the ball.


How can you say they were equally effective? Vick had over 6000 yds rushing in his career which is like 1200 more than Cunningham had in a longer career


You're not comparing the same game.

_________________
Nas: Blago, who has single handedly destroyed CFMB?

Blago: https://youtube.com/shorts/Lftdxd-YXt8?feature=share

"You can’t love your country only when you win." -President Biden

https://youtu.be/R6e4ruziZBI?si=1G4W1vbh0eGQuHfU


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2017 9:35 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2007 11:17 am
Posts: 72289
Location: Palatine
pizza_Place: Lou Malnatis
RFDC wrote:
Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote:
Vick was never a consistent passer.

Cunningham wasn't great but you had to respect it. And he was better than Vick.

Running, at their peak, was pretty even. Vick was flashier with a better arm.

C'mon. Vick was clearly the superior runner. Did Cunningham ever line up as a RB more than once a game? Vick did, when he was 30 years old.


Disagree. Cunningham was dangerous running the ball.

He just didn't look like Barry Sanders when he was doing it. He killed teams with his legs.

All that is true and Vick was still clearly superior. Cam Newton kills guys running the ball. Vick was clearly better than him too.


Clearly superior at what exactly? I'd say they were equally effective running the ball.


How can you say they were equally effective? Vick had over 6000 yds rushing in his career which is like 1200 more than Cunningham had in a longer career

Exactly. I'm willing to agree Cunningham was the better QB. This isn't even a debate if we are asking who the better runner was. Vick has no equal yet in history in that regard.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2017 9:36 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 20, 2006 9:15 pm
Posts: 48754
Location: Bohemian Club Annual World Power Consolidation Conference & Golf Outing
pizza_Place: World Fluoridation Conspiracy Pizza & WINGS!
RFDC wrote:
Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote:
Vick was never a consistent passer.

Cunningham wasn't great but you had to respect it. And he was better than Vick.

Running, at their peak, was pretty even. Vick was flashier with a better arm.

C'mon. Vick was clearly the superior runner. Did Cunningham ever line up as a RB more than once a game? Vick did, when he was 30 years old.


Disagree. Cunningham was dangerous running the ball.

He just didn't look like Barry Sanders when he was doing it. He killed teams with his legs.

All that is true and Vick was still clearly superior. Cam Newton kills guys running the ball. Vick was clearly better than him too.


Clearly superior at what exactly? I'd say they were equally effective running the ball.


How can you say they were equally effective? Vick had over 6000 yds rushing in his career which is like 1200 more than Cunningham had in a longer career


FF said at their apex.

_________________
https://twitter.com/DrKenCast


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2017 9:38 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2007 11:17 am
Posts: 72289
Location: Palatine
pizza_Place: Lou Malnatis
Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote:
RFDC wrote:
Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
C'mon. Vick was clearly the superior runner. Did Cunningham ever line up as a RB more than once a game? Vick did, when he was 30 years old.


Disagree. Cunningham was dangerous running the ball.

He just didn't look like Barry Sanders when he was doing it. He killed teams with his legs.

All that is true and Vick was still clearly superior. Cam Newton kills guys running the ball. Vick was clearly better than him too.


Clearly superior at what exactly? I'd say they were equally effective running the ball.


How can you say they were equally effective? Vick had over 6000 yds rushing in his career which is like 1200 more than Cunningham had in a longer career


FF said at their apex.

Vick wins that either way. Cunningham never ran for 1000 yards in a season. No QB ever has, except Vick.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2017 9:39 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 20, 2006 9:15 pm
Posts: 48754
Location: Bohemian Club Annual World Power Consolidation Conference & Golf Outing
pizza_Place: World Fluoridation Conspiracy Pizza & WINGS!
FavreFan wrote:
Exactly. I'm willing to agree Cunningham was the better QB. This isn't even a debate if we are asking who the better runner was. Vick has no equal yet in history in that regard.


That's just not true.

Vick was more fun to watch but if we are just talking about their prime, he has an equal and it's Cunningham.

Vick had a better career running it.

_________________
https://twitter.com/DrKenCast


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2017 9:41 pm 
Offline
100000 CLUB
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 8:06 pm
Posts: 76695
pizza_Place: 773-684-2222
Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote:
RFDC wrote:
Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
C'mon. Vick was clearly the superior runner. Did Cunningham ever line up as a RB more than once a game? Vick did, when he was 30 years old.


Disagree. Cunningham was dangerous running the ball.

He just didn't look like Barry Sanders when he was doing it. He killed teams with his legs.

All that is true and Vick was still clearly superior. Cam Newton kills guys running the ball. Vick was clearly better than him too.


Clearly superior at what exactly? I'd say they were equally effective running the ball.


How can you say they were equally effective? Vick had over 6000 yds rushing in his career which is like 1200 more than Cunningham had in a longer career


FF said at their apex.

FavreFan wrote:
Vick wins that either way. Cunningham never ran for 1000 yards in a season. No QB ever has, except Vick.


Different game. Vick's yards were easier. Less fear and less punishment.

_________________
Nas: Blago, who has single handedly destroyed CFMB?

Blago: https://youtube.com/shorts/Lftdxd-YXt8?feature=share

"You can’t love your country only when you win." -President Biden

https://youtu.be/R6e4ruziZBI?si=1G4W1vbh0eGQuHfU


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2017 9:41 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 20, 2006 9:15 pm
Posts: 48754
Location: Bohemian Club Annual World Power Consolidation Conference & Golf Outing
pizza_Place: World Fluoridation Conspiracy Pizza & WINGS!
1000 yards is arbitrary but Cunningham had 942.

Pretty equal.

_________________
https://twitter.com/DrKenCast


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2017 9:42 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2007 11:17 am
Posts: 72289
Location: Palatine
pizza_Place: Lou Malnatis
Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote:
1000 yards is arbitrary but Cunningham had 942.

Pretty equal.

Some QBs are more equal than others.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2017 9:44 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 20, 2006 9:15 pm
Posts: 48754
Location: Bohemian Club Annual World Power Consolidation Conference & Golf Outing
pizza_Place: World Fluoridation Conspiracy Pizza & WINGS!
Cunningham also threw for 3500 yards and 30 TDs that year compared to Vick's 2500/20 in his year.

_________________
https://twitter.com/DrKenCast


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2017 9:46 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2011 7:56 am
Posts: 32235
Location: A sterile, homogeneous suburb
pizza_Place: Pizza Cucina
Fran Tarkenton was the greatest QB in history.

_________________
Curious Hair wrote:
I'm a big dumb shitlib baby


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2017 9:47 pm 
Offline
100000 CLUB
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 8:06 pm
Posts: 76695
pizza_Place: 773-684-2222
Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote:
Cunningham also threw for 3500 yards and 30 TDs that year compared to Vick's 2500/20 in his year.


Cunningham's rushing totals and passing yards were more impressive than Vick's. Vick would have died in that NFL.

_________________
Nas: Blago, who has single handedly destroyed CFMB?

Blago: https://youtube.com/shorts/Lftdxd-YXt8?feature=share

"You can’t love your country only when you win." -President Biden

https://youtu.be/R6e4ruziZBI?si=1G4W1vbh0eGQuHfU


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2017 9:48 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 20, 2006 9:15 pm
Posts: 48754
Location: Bohemian Club Annual World Power Consolidation Conference & Golf Outing
pizza_Place: World Fluoridation Conspiracy Pizza & WINGS!
FavreFan wrote:
Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote:
1000 yards is arbitrary but Cunningham had 942.

Pretty equal.

Some QBs are more equal than others.


I guess I'm losing track of your point. I thought you wanted opinions on who was a better QB at their peak.

It's Cunningham.

Vick was probably a better runner at their peak but it's pretty close. Vick was a better runner over his career because he was never the passer that Cunningham was.

_________________
https://twitter.com/DrKenCast


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2017 9:51 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 19, 2009 11:19 am
Posts: 23917
pizza_Place: Jimmy's Place
Tebow

_________________
Reality is your friend, not your enemy. -- Seacrest


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2017 9:54 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2011 7:56 am
Posts: 32235
Location: A sterile, homogeneous suburb
pizza_Place: Pizza Cucina
Vick was never a great QB. He had flashes of brilliance but never sustained it. Cunningham was legit. He was the better QB.

That said, Vick was the second best pure runner I've ever watched.

_________________
Curious Hair wrote:
I'm a big dumb shitlib baby


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2017 9:55 pm 
Offline
100000 CLUB
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 8:06 pm
Posts: 76695
pizza_Place: 773-684-2222
Vick is nowhere near as good as Cunningham. Cunningham v Moon is a better argument.

_________________
Nas: Blago, who has single handedly destroyed CFMB?

Blago: https://youtube.com/shorts/Lftdxd-YXt8?feature=share

"You can’t love your country only when you win." -President Biden

https://youtu.be/R6e4ruziZBI?si=1G4W1vbh0eGQuHfU


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2017 9:57 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 20, 2006 9:15 pm
Posts: 48754
Location: Bohemian Club Annual World Power Consolidation Conference & Golf Outing
pizza_Place: World Fluoridation Conspiracy Pizza & WINGS!
Nas wrote:
Vick is nowhere near as good as Cunningham. Cunningham v Moon is a better argument.


Moon wasn't mobile like Cunningham.

He was a traditional drop back passer.

_________________
https://twitter.com/DrKenCast


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2017 10:00 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 20, 2006 9:15 pm
Posts: 48754
Location: Bohemian Club Annual World Power Consolidation Conference & Golf Outing
pizza_Place: World Fluoridation Conspiracy Pizza & WINGS!
QB-Eagles was better than all these fools.

_________________
https://twitter.com/DrKenCast


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2017 10:00 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2011 7:56 am
Posts: 32235
Location: A sterile, homogeneous suburb
pizza_Place: Pizza Cucina
Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote:
Nas wrote:
Vick is nowhere near as good as Cunningham. Cunningham v Moon is a better argument.


Moon wasn't mobile like Cunningham.

He was a traditional drop back passer.


This.

I was beginning to wonder if our criteria was just black QB's.

_________________
Curious Hair wrote:
I'm a big dumb shitlib baby


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2017 10:00 pm 
Offline
100000 CLUB
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 8:06 pm
Posts: 76695
pizza_Place: 773-684-2222
Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote:
Nas wrote:
Vick is nowhere near as good as Cunningham. Cunningham v Moon is a better argument.


Moon wasn't mobile like Cunningham.

He was a traditional drop back passer.


I know. I was talking about who was a better QB at their peak.

_________________
Nas: Blago, who has single handedly destroyed CFMB?

Blago: https://youtube.com/shorts/Lftdxd-YXt8?feature=share

"You can’t love your country only when you win." -President Biden

https://youtu.be/R6e4ruziZBI?si=1G4W1vbh0eGQuHfU


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2017 10:01 pm 
Offline
100000 CLUB
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 8:06 pm
Posts: 76695
pizza_Place: 773-684-2222
leashyourkids wrote:
Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote:
Nas wrote:
Vick is nowhere near as good as Cunningham. Cunningham v Moon is a better argument.


Moon wasn't mobile like Cunningham.

He was a traditional drop back passer.


This.

I was beginning to wonder if our criteria was just black QB's.


I was. We debated these things as a kid. I was a Moon guy.

_________________
Nas: Blago, who has single handedly destroyed CFMB?

Blago: https://youtube.com/shorts/Lftdxd-YXt8?feature=share

"You can’t love your country only when you win." -President Biden

https://youtu.be/R6e4ruziZBI?si=1G4W1vbh0eGQuHfU


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2017 10:01 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 20, 2006 9:15 pm
Posts: 48754
Location: Bohemian Club Annual World Power Consolidation Conference & Golf Outing
pizza_Place: World Fluoridation Conspiracy Pizza & WINGS!
Nas wrote:
Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote:
Nas wrote:
Vick is nowhere near as good as Cunningham. Cunningham v Moon is a better argument.


Moon wasn't mobile like Cunningham.

He was a traditional drop back passer.


I know. I was talking about who was a better QB at their peak.


Well, Moon.

He was great.

_________________
https://twitter.com/DrKenCast


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2017 10:25 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2007 11:17 am
Posts: 72289
Location: Palatine
pizza_Place: Lou Malnatis
Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote:
1000 yards is arbitrary but Cunningham had 942.

Pretty equal.

Some QBs are more equal than others.


I guess I'm losing track of your point. I thought you wanted opinions on who was a better QB at their peak.

It's Cunningham.

Vick was probably a better runner at their peak but it's pretty close. Vick was a better runner over his career because he was never the passer that Cunningham was.

My original point was that I thought Vick was better but it was an interesting question. The thread sort of evolved but I can't agree that Cunningham and Vick were very close in terms of running.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2017 10:35 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 20, 2006 9:15 pm
Posts: 48754
Location: Bohemian Club Annual World Power Consolidation Conference & Golf Outing
pizza_Place: World Fluoridation Conspiracy Pizza & WINGS!
Prior to Cunningham's injury, he was exceptional.

What criteria are you using? I agree Vick was better. But he was also flashier with his quickness. Cunningham was pretty amazing as well pre-injury. Just not as highlight-y.

_________________
https://twitter.com/DrKenCast


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2017 10:38 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 20, 2006 9:15 pm
Posts: 48754
Location: Bohemian Club Annual World Power Consolidation Conference & Golf Outing
pizza_Place: World Fluoridation Conspiracy Pizza & WINGS!
To be clear, I'm just talking about running above.

_________________
https://twitter.com/DrKenCast


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2017 10:44 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 20, 2006 9:15 pm
Posts: 48754
Location: Bohemian Club Annual World Power Consolidation Conference & Golf Outing
pizza_Place: World Fluoridation Conspiracy Pizza & WINGS!
Thanks for this thread. I just fired up some YouTube videos on Cunningham.

I had forgotten just how amazing he was. And how strong his arm was.

_________________
https://twitter.com/DrKenCast


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2017 10:50 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Mar 31, 2006 3:29 pm
Posts: 34796
pizza_Place: Al's Pizza
Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote:
QB-Eagles was better than all these fools.


This guy gets it.

_________________
Good people drink good beer - Hunter S. Thompson

<º)))><

Waiting for the time when I can finally say
That this has all been wonderful, but now I'm on my way


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2017 11:04 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu May 28, 2009 11:10 am
Posts: 42094
Location: Rock Ridge (splendid!)
pizza_Place: Charlie Fox's / Paisano's
Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote:
Nas wrote:
Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote:
Nas wrote:
Vick is nowhere near as good as Cunningham. Cunningham v Moon is a better argument.


Moon wasn't mobile like Cunningham.

He was a traditional drop back passer.


I know. I was talking about who was a better QB at their peak.


Well, Moon.

He was great.

Image

_________________
Power is always in the hands of the masses of men. What oppresses the masses is their own ignorance, their own short-sighted selfishness.
- Henry George


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2017 11:22 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2011 7:56 am
Posts: 32235
Location: A sterile, homogeneous suburb
pizza_Place: Pizza Cucina
I don't think black QB's should be illegal, but I don't have to like it.

_________________
Curious Hair wrote:
I'm a big dumb shitlib baby


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 79 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group