I admit I forgot about Gronk.

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Yeah, Marvin Harrison and Reggie Wayne came out of nowhere. I can't even remember them having success in college or being on the radar for the NFL.

Look at the numbers with and without Peyton.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Yup. He looked superhuman during his first couple years in Denver. 55 TDs in 2013.

_________________
Successful calls:

Kyrie Irving will never win anything as a team's alpha: check
T.rubisky is a bust: check
Ben Simmons is a liability: check
The Fields Cult is dumb: double check

2013 CSFMB ROY

Marvin Harrison was a 1st round pick for a reason. He put up three pretty good years before Manning. Yeah, of course Manning allowed him to be even better, but you act like he was this non-talented hack before Manning arrived.

And none of those guys does much now. Is Eric Decker any good?

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Look at the numbers!

Peyton made everyone better. They all got much worse without him.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Who Brady didn't have yesterday either . Sorry but Brady is the alpha in this race. He'd totally rub Mannings breakfast on his sack and make him eat it in that Nationwide commercial .

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Proud member of the white guy grievance committee

It aint the six minutes. Its what happens in those six minutes.

JORR just got dismantled in this thread.


No. Jerry rice is and it's still not really close. He's easily the best QB ever though.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Peyton took 1st round wide receivers and made them stars. Brady took UDFA 'cracka' wide receivers and made them stars.

Very, very bad football thought.

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Yes

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

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In his defense, he does play for the Jets now.

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2018
#ExtendLafleur

Brady is better. The rewriting of what Peyton did is wrong.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Piecemeal. Brady has had one of the best offensive lines in the nfl almost every year of his career. I agree with your overall point though.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

The only significant investment the Patriots have made for Brady was Gronk, 2nd rounder. Randy Moss was a roll of the dice but only a 4th rounder. The only skill position they ever drafted was Maroney in 2006 and he was a bust. They have asked Brady to work with scrap heap pickups his entire career. Now in the case of Welker, he was a pretty high pick with Miami that didn't realize his potential, but it was still a scrap heap pickup.

We would have to define the criteria. It sounds like you're placing almost all yours on super bowl titles.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

I don't think so. I just got yelled at by a bunch of Bulls fans who can't even consider the possibility that anyone other than Jordan might be the greatest.

_________________
His mind is not for rent to any God or government.

Negative. Brady has won every year he's played. Rice is nothing without a good QB to throw the ball to him (Montana, Young, Rich Gannon in Oakland). I think defining an NBA player like Jordan as Basketball GOAT or Gretzky as NHL GOAT (which he's not) is easier than a position player in the NFL. For purposes of this argument, everything runs through the QB. I think the only correct answer when it comes to GOAT in the NFL is a QB, with consideration for Running Backs, who create more once a ball is handed to them.

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Where Manning should get a 'handicap' is head coaching. Beliciek will go down as the best ever. While Tony Dungy is an overrated hack. That colts defense was shit many years under his watch with Manning. If it was more consistent year after year(which it should have been as he was the Tampa 2 guru) they would have won more than 1 SB.

I don't have time to go over the numbers right now, but if you look, I believe that Colts defense was very jeckle and hyde in the mid 2000's. A couple of years, they were ranked very high, but other years very low. It may have coincided with the health/play of Bob Sanders because as we all know if you don't have a good safety the Tampa 2 D is dog shit.

Manning couldn't get to a Super Bowl without the NFL tweaking the rules for downfield contact of WRs. Ty Law used to manhandle WRs in the AFC championships and old horseface McGhee would go to shit. Both his championships weren't impressive. He beat a terribly flawed Bears team and had a defense carry his corpse to another one. Fuck Peyton Manning

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Yeah. The different era Brady played in was much tougher.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

No, you did. You barely even attempted an argument, just seemed like you wanted to troll Bulls fans

Let's try to breakdown the little argument

1.) you claimed it is all about size. This argument falls woefully short of even being an argument.

2.) you then claimed it was all about FG%, which is laughable. If that's the case Jordan isn't a top 20 player in history. It' also a disingenuous argument since you're on record here as saying Magic is the best player ever(an argument you seemed to have abandoned here, lending credence to the "you're just trolling Bulls fans" theory

3.) last bit of an attempt at an argument was you saying Jordan's inability to guard quick, little guards(I know there's some truth to this but it'll feel like a silly argument once I ask you who you're talking about and how it affected MJ) is an analog to Shaq's notorious poor free throw shooting.

It's going to be am extremely difficult task for you to win this argument logically.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Brady is the best QB of all time. Peyton is definitely top 5.

_________________
Good people drink good beer - Hunter S. Thompson

<º)))><

Waiting for the time when I can finally say
That this has all been wonderful, but now I'm on my way

You seem to be making an argument for the most effective football player. I would argue the best football player is the one who separates himself from his peers the most. (Peers meaning by era and by position). Rice and LT have a much stronger case in that department than Brady does.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

_________________
Successful calls:

Kyrie Irving will never win anything as a team's alpha: check
T.rubisky is a bust: check
Ben Simmons is a liability: check
The Fields Cult is dumb: double check

2013 CSFMB ROY

Agreed. MANY in this thread seem to feel it necessary to demean Peyton in order to bump Brady up even higher. That in and of itself is telling.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Manning beat Brady and the Pats both years to reach SB.

I was just going to bring up LT. An unblockable defensive player is priceless.

Like we saw twice against the Giants, if the defense is sitting on Tom Brady's head, he can't beat you.

_________________
Good people drink good beer - Hunter S. Thompson

<º)))><

Waiting for the time when I can finally say
That this has all been wonderful, but now I'm on my way