I understand it but it's still odd. "We want criminals, but have no use for silent protestors."

How can you say that though? Who is a good example of a guy who should have gotten the chances that Fitzpatrick got? Let's use a guy like Bryon Leftwich. He got 5 chances(2 with the same team). Ryan Fitzpatrick has gotten 6 chances, though with Fitzpatrick he spent his first two chances just trying to prove he was an NFL quarterback with barely any playing time until the last season with his second team. Fitzpatrick also has 3 seasons better than anything Leftwich ever did, with another two seasons that would be comparable to Leftwich's career years.

Vick bounced around plenty toward the end getting chances to be a backup. He was last seen holding a clip board here in Pittsburgh a couple years ago. There is one example to offset Fitzpatrick. Can we move on?

I think there's a decent chance an equivalent black quarterback out of college doesn't even get drafted or is out of the league within Fitzpatrick's first 3 seasons. It took him 10 years to be the quarterback on a team with a winning record and I definitely think at the very latest he would've been bounced from Buffalo by the start of 2012. This doesn't even get into the backup roles he's been offered.

Buffalo Bills are world renowned for creating Fitzpatrick-esque QB's in this league. Tyrod Taylor, EJ Manuel, Cardale Jones... Bills are the backup QB feeder system.

That's because the odds of any undrafted quarterback having a meaningful career is very low. Even the far superior Kurt Warner and Warren Moon had to go to other leagues while Fitzpatrick didn't.

ZephMarshack has to google a little more than he has and let the Fitz thing go. There have been many black qbs and many more to come. There are a ton of factors affecting backup choices. Just look at Cutler. It took an injury to a starter and the head coach has a personal connection. Batch sat here for a decade because the team loved him and they knew he would barely have to play. So many teams have so many weird things that go on that you cannot just say the one black guy is getting screwed over.

No one bitches to the league or refuses to watch when criminals play. Only when the flag is disrespected.

I agree . People are very loyal to their favorite TV shows

Correct and I'd say black quarterbacks are more likely to go undrafted than equivalently talented white ones and they're also more likely to be out of the league quicker as well.

Maybe, but that is a lot different than what was said earlier.

Ironically, in football, for most opinions, the opposite is true.

It doesn't contradict anything I said earlier either though and is completely consistent with the idea that there are different standards applied based on race at that position.

Ryan Fitzpatrick has more career starts than every black quarterback outside of Warren Moon, Randall Cunningham, Donovan McNabb, and Steve McNair. So yes, one only needs to be as good as one of those guys to have a long career in the league akin to Fitzpatrick's.

It's also far different than this:

...which to me sounds like you are making the case that in order for a black player to last as long as Ryan Fitzpatrick they have to be a hall of famer or a near hall of famer.

You are literally saying you have to nearly be a hall of famer as a black quarterback to last as long as Ryan Fitzpatrick. That is significantly stronger of a statement than saying they are "more likely to go undrafted that equivalently talented white ones and they're also more likely to be out of the league quicker".

As I pointed out, someone like Byron Leftwich got 5 chances. Many other quarterbacks hung around the league for 10+ years and many of those didn't have the "good seasons" that Fitzpatrick had.

I mean, I guess I could be taking what you are saying as a stronger statement than you are actually attempting to make but I don't really think it is fair to make a point that being a black quarterback is significantly more difficult because of one of the strangest careers in NFL history with a guy who kind of sucks but still found a way to keep getting on the field.

I'm using Fitzpatrick as an example, but I've cited other quarterbacks and of course an actual study that found race was a predictor of a quarterback being benched controlling for everything else. You keep wanting to treat Fitzpatrick as some kind of huge anomaly but I would maintain that his race was an insufficient but absolutely necessary condition for his career to have transpired the way that it has.

Rick, which parts of the study that he posted did you disagree with?

I didn't disagree with the study. I am sure a bias exists.

I just don't think you have to be a near hall of famer to have a successful journeyman career where you are given multiple chances to succeed.

Oh ok. So you essentially agree with Zeph and just didn't like the Fitzpatrick example?

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