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Larry Fitzgerald vs. Randy Moss
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Author:  Nas [ Mon Sep 25, 2017 10:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Larry Fitzgerald vs. Randy Moss
Regular Reader wrote:
Nas wrote:
Regular Reader wrote:
The last Vikings years and all the Raiders years kill him in my book


Yeah but then he reminded you he could have been better than Rice when he joined the Patriots.


"Want" to is always a factor in greatness.

As Fitzgerald just pulled another highlight catch out his ass


Can't deny that. Rice had 2 of the top 15 QB's throwing him the ball. Moss had bums. That has to get frustrating. Fitz at least had Warner for a few years.
Author:  tommy [ Mon Sep 25, 2017 10:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Larry Fitzgerald vs. Randy Moss
Fitzgerald has always made his teams better than Moss has made his teams
Author:  veganfan21 [ Mon Sep 25, 2017 10:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Larry Fitzgerald vs. Randy Moss
tommy wrote:
Fitzgerald has always made his teams better than Moss has made his teams


Moss was the team. Fitz had Edge James and Bolden.
Author:  HawaiiYou [ Mon Sep 25, 2017 10:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Larry Fitzgerald vs. Randy Moss
veganfan21 wrote:
tommy wrote:
Fitzgerald has always made his teams better than Moss has made his teams


Moss was the team. Fitz had Edge James and Bolden.


Moss made Daunte Culpepper into a pro bowler during those Vikings years.
Author:  Nas [ Mon Sep 25, 2017 10:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Larry Fitzgerald vs. Randy Moss
veganfan21 wrote:
tommy wrote:
Fitzgerald has always made his teams better than Moss has made his teams


Moss was the team. Fitz had Edge James and Bolden.


Yep
Author:  Nas [ Mon Sep 25, 2017 10:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Larry Fitzgerald vs. Randy Moss
HawaiiYou wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
tommy wrote:
Fitzgerald has always made his teams better than Moss has made his teams


Moss was the team. Fitz had Edge James and Bolden.


Moss made Daunte Culpepper into a pro bowler during those Vikings years.


Agreed. He also taught Fitz.
Author:  Regular Reader [ Mon Sep 25, 2017 10:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Larry Fitzgerald vs. Randy Moss
veganfan21 wrote:
tommy wrote:
Fitzgerald has always made his teams better than Moss has made his teams


Moss was the team. Fitz had Edge James and Bolden.


That Vikings team had another (unworthy in my book) HOF receiver and talent all over the rest of the field.

In fairness
Author:  veganfan21 [ Mon Sep 25, 2017 10:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Larry Fitzgerald vs. Randy Moss
Regular Reader wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
tommy wrote:
Fitzgerald has always made his teams better than Moss has made his teams


Moss was the team. Fitz had Edge James and Bolden.


That Vikings team had another (unworthy in my book) HOF receiver and talent all over the rest of the field.

In fairness


Which Vikings team? 15-1 in 98 with Moss as a rookie and Chis Carter as an old WR. Cunningham as QB.
Author:  Regular Reader [ Mon Sep 25, 2017 10:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Larry Fitzgerald vs. Randy Moss
veganfan21 wrote:
Regular Reader wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
tommy wrote:
Fitzgerald has always made his teams better than Moss has made his teams


Moss was the team. Fitz had Edge James and Bolden.


That Vikings team had another (unworthy in my book) HOF receiver and talent all over the rest of the field.

In fairness


Which Vikings team? 15-1 in 98 with Moss as a rookie and Chis Carter as an old WR. Cunningham as QB.


98 is the year that made him
Author:  FavreFan [ Mon Sep 25, 2017 10:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Larry Fitzgerald vs. Randy Moss
veganfan21 wrote:
tommy wrote:
Fitzgerald has always made his teams better than Moss has made his teams


Moss was the team.

That's an odd take. Moss was the ultimate front runner. He was good on loaded teams and was a shitty player when not playing with all pros.
Author:  newper [ Mon Sep 25, 2017 10:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Larry Fitzgerald vs. Randy Moss
veganfan21 wrote:
Which Vikings team? 15-1 in 98 with Moss as a rookie and Chis Carter as an old WR. Cunningham as QB.

In 99 and 2000 Carter had 90+ catches for 1200+ yards -- pretty good for an old man. Not to mention you had Smith at RB who was putting up 1500+ yards still. It is not like he was on the 2016 Bears or something.
Author:  tommy [ Mon Sep 25, 2017 10:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Larry Fitzgerald vs. Randy Moss
veganfan21 wrote:
tommy wrote:
Fitzgerald has always made his teams better than Moss has made his teams


Moss was the team. Fitz had Edge James and Bolden.

I dunno if Moss was ever the team, even in college.
Author:  newper [ Mon Sep 25, 2017 10:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Larry Fitzgerald vs. Randy Moss
FavreFan wrote:
That's an odd take. Moss was the ultimate front runner. He was good on loaded teams and was a shitty player when not playing with all pros.

In his two years with the Raiders he only caught 11 TDs and then caught 23 TDs his first season with the Patriots.
Author:  newper [ Mon Sep 25, 2017 10:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Larry Fitzgerald vs. Randy Moss
Regular Reader wrote:
98 is the year that made him

That is his rookie year where he led the league in TDs, so yeah, it couldn't have been much earlier than that.
Author:  FavreFan [ Mon Sep 25, 2017 10:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Larry Fitzgerald vs. Randy Moss
newper wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
Which Vikings team? 15-1 in 98 with Moss as a rookie and Chis Carter as an old WR. Cunningham as QB.

In 99 and 2000 Carter had 90+ catches for 1200+ yards -- pretty good for an old man. Not to mention you had Smith at RB who was putting up 1500+ yards still. It is not like he was on the 2016 Bears or something.

Yeah. It's laughable to mention Cardinals version of Edge James while ignoring Smith
Author:  veganfan21 [ Mon Sep 25, 2017 10:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Larry Fitzgerald vs. Randy Moss
newper wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
Which Vikings team? 15-1 in 98 with Moss as a rookie and Chis Carter as an old WR. Cunningham as QB.

In 99 and 2000 Carter had 90+ catches for 1200+ yards -- pretty good for an old man. Not to mention you had Smith at RB who was putting up 1500+ yards still. It is not like he was on the 2016 Bears or something.


Moss' presence opened up the rest of the offense.

newper wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
That's an odd take. Moss was the ultimate front runner. He was good on loaded teams and was a shitty player when not playing with all pros.

In his two years with the Raiders he only caught 11 TDs and then caught 23 TDs his first season with the Patriots.


WRs are indebted to the talent around them. Fitz would have better career numbers had the Cards acquired better QBs. The odd take would be to say Fitz is a "front runner" because he produced better when he wasn't catching passes from Matt Leinart.
Author:  Nas [ Mon Sep 25, 2017 10:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Larry Fitzgerald vs. Randy Moss
Cokehead Carter extended his career because of Moss.
Author:  veganfan21 [ Mon Sep 25, 2017 10:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Larry Fitzgerald vs. Randy Moss
FavreFan wrote:
newper wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
Which Vikings team? 15-1 in 98 with Moss as a rookie and Chis Carter as an old WR. Cunningham as QB.

In 99 and 2000 Carter had 90+ catches for 1200+ yards -- pretty good for an old man. Not to mention you had Smith at RB who was putting up 1500+ yards still. It is not like he was on the 2016 Bears or something.

Yeah. It's laughable to mention Cardinals version of Edge James while ignoring Smith


They went to the superbowl with James as the starting RB.
Author:  FavreFan [ Mon Sep 25, 2017 10:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Larry Fitzgerald vs. Randy Moss
I hope you can do better than that veganfan. Just rewatch the game tonight if you want to argue Fitz quits on bad quarterbacks.

You can argue Moss is better if you want but you lose credibility if you're denying Moss didn't always play hard.
Author:  FavreFan [ Mon Sep 25, 2017 10:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Larry Fitzgerald vs. Randy Moss
veganfan21 wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
newper wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
Which Vikings team? 15-1 in 98 with Moss as a rookie and Chis Carter as an old WR. Cunningham as QB.

In 99 and 2000 Carter had 90+ catches for 1200+ yards -- pretty good for an old man. Not to mention you had Smith at RB who was putting up 1500+ yards still. It is not like he was on the 2016 Bears or something.

Yeah. It's laughable to mention Cardinals version of Edge James while ignoring Smith


They went to the superbowl with James as the starting RB.

:lol:

....ok?
Author:  newper [ Mon Sep 25, 2017 10:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Larry Fitzgerald vs. Randy Moss
veganfan21 wrote:
newper wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
Which Vikings team? 15-1 in 98 with Moss as a rookie and Chis Carter as an old WR. Cunningham as QB.

In 99 and 2000 Carter had 90+ catches for 1200+ yards -- pretty good for an old man. Not to mention you had Smith at RB who was putting up 1500+ yards still. It is not like he was on the 2016 Bears or something.


Moss' presence opened up the rest of the offense.

Tell that to Joey Porter and Doug Gabriel.
Author:  veganfan21 [ Mon Sep 25, 2017 10:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Larry Fitzgerald vs. Randy Moss
FavreFan wrote:
I hope you can do better than that veganfan. Just rewatch the game tonight if you want to argue Fitz quits on bad quarterbacks.

You can argue Moss is better if you want but you lose credibility if you're denying Moss didn't always play hard.


Nope, not my argument. Moss doesn't have Fitz's rep as a hard worker and team player. I don't dispute that. I'm just talking about talent - I think Moss had more of it. Fitz's career is somewhat tragic due to lackluster Cards QBs. Would have loved to see his numbers had he had decent to good QBs for most of his career. Between Warner and Palmer there was like five years of atrociousness. It was really sad to see Fitz suffer from that.
Author:  veganfan21 [ Mon Sep 25, 2017 10:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Larry Fitzgerald vs. Randy Moss
newper wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
newper wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
Which Vikings team? 15-1 in 98 with Moss as a rookie and Chis Carter as an old WR. Cunningham as QB.

In 99 and 2000 Carter had 90+ catches for 1200+ yards -- pretty good for an old man. Not to mention you had Smith at RB who was putting up 1500+ yards still. It is not like he was on the 2016 Bears or something.


Moss' presence opened up the rest of the offense.

Tell that to Joey Porter and Doug Gabriel.


What do underperforming bums have to do with Moss?
Author:  FavreFan [ Mon Sep 25, 2017 10:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Larry Fitzgerald vs. Randy Moss
veganfan21 wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
I hope you can do better than that veganfan. Just rewatch the game tonight if you want to argue Fitz quits on bad quarterbacks.

You can argue Moss is better if you want but you lose credibility if you're denying Moss didn't always play hard.


Nope, not my argument. Moss doesn't have Fitz's rep as a hard worker and team player. I don't dispute that. I'm just talking about talent - I think Moss had more of it. Fitz's career is somewhat tragic due to lackluster Cards QBs. Would have loved to see his numbers had he had decent to good QBs for most of his career. Between Warner and Palmer there was like five years of atrociousness. It was really sad to see Fitz suffer from that.

They went to the Super Bowl with Warner as their starting QB
Author:  Regular Reader [ Mon Sep 25, 2017 10:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Larry Fitzgerald vs. Randy Moss
This was a fun game to watch once they turned Dak loose
Author:  veganfan21 [ Mon Sep 25, 2017 10:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Larry Fitzgerald vs. Randy Moss
FavreFan wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
I hope you can do better than that veganfan. Just rewatch the game tonight if you want to argue Fitz quits on bad quarterbacks.

You can argue Moss is better if you want but you lose credibility if you're denying Moss didn't always play hard.


Nope, not my argument. Moss doesn't have Fitz's rep as a hard worker and team player. I don't dispute that. I'm just talking about talent - I think Moss had more of it. Fitz's career is somewhat tragic due to lackluster Cards QBs. Would have loved to see his numbers had he had decent to good QBs for most of his career. Between Warner and Palmer there was like five years of atrociousness. It was really sad to see Fitz suffer from that.

They went to the Super Bowl with Warner as their starting QB


I meant post-Warner and pre-Palmer - the years in between those two QBs.
Author:  newper [ Mon Sep 25, 2017 10:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Larry Fitzgerald vs. Randy Moss
veganfan21 wrote:
newper wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
Moss' presence opened up the rest of the offense.

Tell that to Joey Porter and Doug Gabriel.

What do underperforming bums have to do with Moss?

So when other players do well, it is because Moss took the pressure off of them, but when other players perform poorly, it was their fault and Moss couldn't have helped them. Makes sense.
Author:  veganfan21 [ Mon Sep 25, 2017 11:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Larry Fitzgerald vs. Randy Moss
newper wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
newper wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
Moss' presence opened up the rest of the offense.

Tell that to Joey Porter and Doug Gabriel.

What do underperforming bums have to do with Moss?

So when other players do well, it is because Moss took the pressure off of them, but when other players perform poorly, it was their fault and Moss couldn't have helped them. Makes sense.


I don't know what's so controversial about saying other players can excel when one single player commands double teams. No player outside of a QB can put underperforming WRs in positions to succeed. You act as if Porter was on his way to becoming a legend until Moss showed up and derailed his career. Porter was out of the league shortly after Moss left Oakland anyway, and he still had plenty left in the tank.
Author:  newper [ Mon Sep 25, 2017 11:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Larry Fitzgerald vs. Randy Moss
veganfan21 wrote:
I don't know what's so controversial about saying other players can excel when one single player commands double teams. No player outside of a QB can put underperforming WRs in positions to succeed. You act as if Porter was on his way to becoming a legend until Moss showed up and derailed his career. Porter was out of the league shortly after Moss left Oakland anyway, and he still had plenty left in the tank.

But look at the numbers and you'll see they were almost the same the year before Moss came to Oakland. If he was commanding double teams in Oakland, wouldn't their numbers go up? Or are you saying they don't have any talent, and therefore the reason Carter did so well as an older player was because he did have talent and benefited from these Moss double teams? And if that is the case, you would have to agree that Moss wasn't the only talent on that team.
Author:  IMU [ Mon Sep 25, 2017 11:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Larry Fitzgerald vs. Randy Moss
Randy Moss.

C'mon guys, this isn't a debate!
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