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PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 5:30 pm 
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Manning is over rated, not a top 10 guy.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 5:33 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
denisdman wrote:
My list in order:

Brady
P Manning
Marino
Favre
Rodgers

And I have to give Brady so much credit. He seems to have the least talent among that group, and he also had very mediocre skills guys around him.

Having the best coach of all time is more useful than having elite WRs


Cameras don't hurt either.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 5:33 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
ZephMarshack wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
ZephMarshack wrote:
Sticking Rodgers in the same tier as Eli and Rivers is something only a Bears fan could do. If anything I'd put Brady and Manning above the rest and then stick Brees, Rodgers, and Ben in their own tier.
If it makes you feel better, I think if he has a good end to his career I think Rodgers can get up to tier 1.

I hate the guy so it doesn't make me feel better at all, but even if he never plays again I think he already ranks above Ben and Brees all time.
I think the stats don't tell the whole story on Ben.

I disagree on Brees. The Rodgers is great argument has always been about his statistics and he doesn't have that over Brees.

Um... yes he does. Unless you just mean longevity stats.

Rodgers/Brees isn't really a debate. Rodgers was clearly and significantly better when both were at their best. Brees wins on longevity but that's overrated. It's not like Rodgers only had 5 good years.

Got any stats to back that up?

Yeah but I don't feel like doing the copy/paste work. You have the internet. Just look at their 2011 seasons when they were both at their best.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 5:34 pm 
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Brees plays like 10 games a year in a dome too.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 5:38 pm 
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Yeah but I don't feel like doing the copy/paste work. You have the internet. Just look at their 2011 seasons when they were both at their best.

:lol: Ok. I guess one season proves it isn't even debatable.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 5:43 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
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Yeah but I don't feel like doing the copy/paste work. You have the internet. Just look at their 2011 seasons when they were both at their best.

:lol: Ok. I guess one season proves it isn't even debatable.

Read the post you asked me to post stats on. It specifies them at their best.

But I'm not sure your end game here. We both have pro football reference. If you need me to actually post their stats here I can do that when I get home but we both know Rodgers does have a statistical case over Brees.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 5:43 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
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Yeah but I don't feel like doing the copy/paste work. You have the internet. Just look at their 2011 seasons when they were both at their best.

:lol: Ok. I guess one season proves it isn't even debatable.

Read the post you asked me to post stats on. It specifies them at their best.

But I'm not sure your end game here. We both have pro football reference. If you need me to actually post their stats here I can do that when I get home but we both know Rodgers does have a statistical case over Brees.

Please do.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 5:47 pm 
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:lol: Ok. This should be good.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 5:51 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
:lol: Ok. This should be good.

I was obviously joking about Rodgers being tier 2 but I think it's going to be very tough to say there isn't even an argument Brees is close to him.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 6:04 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
:lol: Ok. This should be good.

I was obviously joking about Rodgers being tier 2 but I think it's going to be very tough to say there isn't even an argument Brees is close to him.


The fact that he went to Purdue.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 6:05 pm 
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I'll also be up front that I'm definitely going to use the stats of Brady and Manning and the fact that FF argued that Rodgers has surpassed them too even if he retired.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 6:06 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
:lol: Ok. This should be good.

I was obviously joking about Rodgers being tier 2 but I think it's going to be very tough to say there isn't even an argument Brees is close to him.

It would just end up coming down to how much you value total passing yardage. I don't mean that as a knock either. But in terms of things like QB rating, TD/INT ratio, y/a, etc Rodgers has the advantage in almost every single one. I don't want to get into bashing Brees like Spaulding. He's one of the best players to ever play. I just don't think there's much of a case to be made he's better than Rodgers.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 6:08 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
I'll also be up front that I'm definitely going to use the stats of Brady and Manning and the fact that FF argued that Rodgers has surpassed them too even if he retired.

Have I said Rodgers is the best QB ever? I don't remember saying that but I don't believe it and I have no problem admitting it was a dumb thing to say. Brady is the best QB ever and there's not a particularly close second.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 6:09 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
:lol: Ok. This should be good.

I was obviously joking about Rodgers being tier 2 but I think it's going to be very tough to say there isn't even an argument Brees is close to him.

It would just end up coming down to how much you value total passing yardage. I don't mean that as a knock either. But in terms of things like QB rating, TD/INT ratio, y/a, etc Rodgers has the advantage in almost every single one. I don't want to get into bashing Brees like Spaulding. He's one of the best players to ever play. I just don't think there's much of a case to be made he's better than Rodgers.

I look forward to it. I don't think the gap is as large as you think especially to just dismiss even the thought that they are close.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 6:10 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
I'll also be up front that I'm definitely going to use the stats of Brady and Manning and the fact that FF argued that Rodgers has surpassed them too even if he retired.

Have I said Rodgers is the best QB ever? I don't remember saying that but I don't believe it and I have no problem admitting it was a dumb thing to say. Brady is the best QB ever and there's not a particularly close second.

I believe you said he could retire after 2015 and still be the best ever. I said he needed to be better for longer. Maybe it was second behind Brady though.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 6:12 pm 
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Without looking, the stat where Rodgers will dominate anyone is going to be his TD-INT ratio.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 6:15 pm 
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Belichick's Patriots with Rodgers > Belichick's Patriots with Brady.

Brady would've busted out of the league a few seasons under McCarthy at the beginning of his career.


Last edited by Hussra on Mon Oct 23, 2017 6:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 6:15 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
:lol: Ok. This should be good.

I was obviously joking about Rodgers being tier 2 but I think it's going to be very tough to say there isn't even an argument Brees is close to him.

It would just end up coming down to how much you value total passing yardage. I don't mean that as a knock either. But in terms of things like QB rating, TD/INT ratio, y/a, etc Rodgers has the advantage in almost every single one. I don't want to get into bashing Brees like Spaulding. He's one of the best players to ever play. I just don't think there's much of a case to be made he's better than Rodgers.

I look forward to it. I don't think the gap is as large as you think especially to just dismiss even the thought that they are close.

Or we could just save me the time and agree Rodgers is/was better but it's close. I don't necessarily care to argue about degrees, especially because I've always liked Brees.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 6:16 pm 
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Hussra wrote:
Belichick's Patriots with Rodgers > Belichick's Patriots with Brady.

Brady would've busted out of the league a few seasons under McCarthy at the beginning of his career.

I think that's true but it's hard arguing hypotheticals in these type of arguments. It can quickly go all over the place. If we stick with just what we know and saw happened I don't think anyone comes close to Brady.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 6:26 pm 
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Sad to see the shameless deification of Brady from otherwise reasonable guys like FF and Rick. Dude's a cheater and guys want to just gloss over that when declaring him the best ever.
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Keep this study in mind on Sunday when that grand psychological riddle known as the New England Patriots tries to win yet another Super Bowl. In New England, you see, the Patriots’ coach, Bill Belichick, is a mastermind, quarterback Tom Brady is superhuman and the entire organization is viewed as a model of professional football perfection.

Outside New England, there’s far more skepticism. The Patriots are considered unrepentant cheaters, caught (and punished) more than once for their football crimes. Yet they keep winning, with a roster full of retreads and spare parts. Could they be skirting the rules even today, in new or undetected ways? Many football fans — nearly all of them outside New England — would not be surprised.



David DeSteno has a special vantage point for observing public response to the Patriots. He is a professor of psychology in Patriots country, at Northeastern University, in Boston, and he was a co-author of the study mentioned above. DeSteno is not a football fan, but he is an expert on the psychology of emotion, hypocrisy and moral judgment. He said you can’t really blame the Patriots faithful for believing their team can do no wrong, and has done no wrong, even though it was twice caught cheating by the N.F.L.

So the pre-Super Bowl chatter marches on, focusing on Belichick’s genius, even though he was fined a half-million dollars for videotaping opposing coaches in 2007, or Brady’s brilliance, even though he was suspended for the first four games of the season after being accused of using deflated footballs.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... SJnU1suS6Y

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 7:08 pm 
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The video taping is real bad, i don't give a crap about deflating footballs.. Lotta QBs did that and yhey should be allowed to do it.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 8:02 pm 
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leashyourkids wrote:
Without looking, the stat where Rodgers will dominate anyone is going to be his TD-INT ratio.

And knowing when to scramble, but I don't think they have a stat for that.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 8:06 pm 
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312player wrote:
Manning is over rated, not a top 10 guy.


Take a look at his career numbers. Absolutely sick.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 8:12 pm 
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312player wrote:
Manning is over rated, not a top 10 guy.


That is just an awful thought.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 8:13 pm 
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denisdman wrote:
312player wrote:
Manning is over rated, not a top 10 guy.


Take a look at his career numbers. Absolutely sick.



Sick indeed, then the playoffs start and those numbers fall off a cliff.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 9:09 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
Seacrest wrote:
If Russell Wilson is on the list, then we may as well throw Brett Hundley into the ring as well.

Brady is the only QB more accomplished in the first few years of a career. If Wilson stays relatively healthy over the next 8-10 years he's a lock.

Yea just 8-10 years of good health.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 9:12 pm 
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Brady
Rodgers
Brees
Ben

Eli will get in but shouldn't

No Stafford, Wilson, Rivers

Cutler maybe.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 9:13 pm 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
Seacrest wrote:
If Russell Wilson is on the list, then we may as well throw Brett Hundley into the ring as well.

Brady is the only QB more accomplished in the first few years of a career. If Wilson stays relatively healthy over the next 8-10 years he's a lock.

Yea just 8-10 years of good health.

Well, I think there's an assumed level of future health in these discussions, right? Otherwise it's simply Brady, Rodgers, Brees, and Ben and no case can be made for anyone else.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 9:21 pm 
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I'm not trolling about the cheating stuff. Only Patriots fanboys think Brady's accomplishments and "records" are not tainted.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 9:25 pm 
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veganfan21 wrote:
I'm not trolling about the cheating stuff. Only Patriots fanboys think Brady's accomplishments and "records" are not tainted.

That's obviously not true. None of us are Patriot fans.

I treat it like the Bonds stuff. If you want to call it tainted that's fine but I'm not gonna pretend Brady didn't win five Super Bowls.

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