Nas wrote:
I think Mahomes, Burrow, Allen, and Jackson are the only quarterbacks that can carry a team.
Soon, my friend.
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| Reorganizing the QB Hierarchy http://chicagofanatics.com/viewtopic.php?f=90&t=129370 |
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| Author: | veganfan21 [ Mon Jan 23, 2023 12:18 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Reorganizing the QB Hierarchy |
As of Jan 2023 Tier 1: Burrow, Mahomes Tier 2: Allen, Hurts, Herbert Tier 3: Tua, Cousins, Lamar, Lawrence, Prescott, Rodgers Tier 4: Brady, Carr, Goff, Smith, Jones Tier 5: everyone else |
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| Author: | RFDC [ Mon Jan 23, 2023 12:25 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Reorganizing the QB Hierarchy |
I would say that is pretty fair look. The only one that I would consider moving is I think Lawrence is on the verge of tier 2. |
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| Author: | Nas [ Mon Jan 23, 2023 12:25 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Reorganizing the QB Hierarchy |
Immortal Tier: Brady Tier 1: Mahomes and Burrow Tier 2: Allen and Jackson Tier 3: Herbert and Hurts Tier 4: Doesn't matter |
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| Author: | Nardi [ Mon Jan 23, 2023 12:27 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Reorganizing the QB Hierarchy |
If a league has only 6 QB's worth having, it's not a league worth watching. |
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| Author: | RFDC [ Mon Jan 23, 2023 12:27 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Reorganizing the QB Hierarchy |
Clearly Brady is on the top tier as the GOAT. But I think he is talking as of right now where they all stand. Brady is not near tier 1 at the moment. |
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| Author: | Nas [ Mon Jan 23, 2023 12:34 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Reorganizing the QB Hierarchy |
RFDC wrote: Clearly Brady is on the top tier as the GOAT. But I think he is talking as of right now where they all stand. Brady is not near tier 1 at the moment. Excluding Brady, I think there are 6 really good to great quarterbacks in the NFL. After those 6, I think the next 10 or so are interchangeable. We'll see what happens with Lawrence and others next season. |
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| Author: | Frank Coztansa [ Mon Jan 23, 2023 12:41 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Reorganizing the QB Hierarchy |
Nardi wrote: If a league has only 6 QB's worth having, it's not a league worth watching. We have seen Jared Goff, Matthew Stafford, Nick Foles, Matt Ryan, Jimmy G, Joe Flacco, and a degraded Peyton Manning all start a Super Bowl fairly recently. I went back ten years. None of those guys would have been top 5/6 in the league at the time.You can get to and possibly win a Super Bowl with a tier 2, possibly even a tier 3 guy. |
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| Author: | veganfan21 [ Mon Jan 23, 2023 1:05 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Reorganizing the QB Hierarchy |
Frank Coztansa wrote: Nardi wrote: If a league has only 6 QB's worth having, it's not a league worth watching. We have seen Jared Goff, Matthew Stafford, Nick Foles, Matt Ryan, Jimmy G, Joe Flacco, and a degraded Peyton Manning all start a Super Bowl fairly recently. I went back ten years. None of those guys would have been top 5/6 in the league at the time.You can get to and possibly win a Super Bowl with a tier 2, possibly even a tier 3 guy. Yep, but you probably have to have an exceptional defense/running game component. Here the last 23 years of SBs and their QBs: Quote: Super Bowl XXXIV Kurt Warner | St. Louis Rams (tier 1) Steve McNair | Tennessee Titans (tier 2) Super Bowl XXXV Trent Dilfer | Baltimore Ravens (no tier) Kerry Collins | New York Giants (no tier) Super Bowl XXXVI Tom Brady | New England Patriots (tier 2 at this time?) Kurt Warner | St. Louis Rams (tier 1) Super Bowl XXXVII Brad Johnson | Tampa Bay Buccaneers (no tier) Rich Gannon | Oakland Raiders (tier 2?) Super Bowl XXXVIII Tom Brady | New England Patriots (tier 1) Jake Delhomme | Carolina Panthers (tier 3) Super Bowl XXXIX Tom Brady | New England Patriots (tier 1) Donovan McNabb | Philadelphia Eagles (tier 1ish?) Super Bowl XL Ben Roethlisberger | Pittsburgh Steelers (tier 3 - he was a limited rookie) Matt Hasselbeck | Seattle Seahawks (tier 2) Super Bowl XLI Peyton Manning | Indianapolis Colts (tier 1) Rex Grossman | Chicago Bears (no tier) Super Bowl XLII Eli Manning | New York Giants (tier 2) Tom Brady | New England Patriots (tier 1) Super Bowl XLIII Ben Roethlisberger | Pittsburgh Steelers (tier 1) Kurt Warner | Arizona Cardinals (tier 2) Super Bowl XLIV Drew Brees | New Orleans Saints (tier 1) Peyton Manning | Indianapolis Colts (tier 1) Super Bowl XLV Aaron Rodgers | Green Bay Packers (tier 1) Ben Roethlisberger | Pittsburgh Steelers (tier 1) Super Bowl XLVI Eli Manning | New York Giants (tier 2) Tom Brady | New England Patriots (tier 1) Super Bowl XLVII Joe Flacco | Baltimore Ravens (tier 2) Colin Kaepernick | San Francisco 49ers (tier 2) Super Bowl XLVIII Russell Wilson | Seattle Seahawks (tier 2) Peyton Manning | Denver Broncos (tier 2) Super Bowl XLIX Tom Brady | New England Patriots (tier 1) Russell Wilson | Seattle Seahawks (tier 2) Super Bowl L Peyton Manning | Denver Broncos (tier 3) Cam Newton | Carolina Panthers (tier 2) Super Bowl LI Tom Brady | New England Patriots (tier 1) Matt Ryan | Atlanta Falcons (tier 1) Super Bowl LII Nick Foles | Philadelphia Eagles (no tier) Tom Brady | New England Patriots (tier 1) Super Bowl LIII Tom Brady | New England Patriots (tier 1) Jared Goff | Los Angeles Rams (tier 2) Super Bowl LIV Patrick Mahomes | Kansas City Chiefs (tier 1) Jimmy Garoppolo | San Francisco 49ers (tier 3) Super Bowl LV Tom Brady | Tampa Bay Buccaneers (tier 1) Patrick Mahomes | Kansas City Chiefs (tier 1) Super Bowl LVI Joe Burrow | Cincinnati Bengals (tier 2) Matthew Stafford | Los Angeles Rams (tier 1) 23 SB games, 46 QBs. Tier breakdown for the 46 QBS: Tier 1: 22/46 Tier 2: 15/46 Tier 3: 4/46 No tier: 5/46 |
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| Author: | Nardi [ Mon Jan 23, 2023 1:07 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Reorganizing the QB Hierarchy |
Frank Coztansa wrote: Nardi wrote: If a league has only 6 QB's worth having, it's not a league worth watching. We have seen Jared Goff, Matthew Stafford, Nick Foles, Matt Ryan, Jimmy G, Joe Flacco, and a degraded Peyton Manning all start a Super Bowl fairly recently. I went back ten years. None of those guys would have been top 5/6 in the league at the time.You can get to and possibly win a Super Bowl with a tier 2, possibly even a tier 3 guy. Absolutely. There are more than 6 guys worth having. Nas' tier 4 , "it doesn't matter", I'll chalk it up to a hot take. |
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| Author: | Frank Coztansa [ Mon Jan 23, 2023 1:13 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Reorganizing the QB Hierarchy |
veganfan21 wrote: Yep, but you probably have to have an exceptional defense/running game component. Right, I don't necessarily disagree. But if you're playing in the Super Bowl, with rare exceptions, you have at least a middle of the road defense. If you have a top tier QB, you likely have a good run/short passing game anyway because having a Burrow or Brady type opens up so many more options.You're not going to have a dynasty and you're not likely to make more than one SB with a tier 3-4 QB. But you can make one and win one. If the Bears build a good D and Fields ends up no more than tier 3, but they win LIX or LX? I'm not gonna complain. |
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| Author: | veganfan21 [ Mon Jan 23, 2023 1:16 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Reorganizing the QB Hierarchy |
Yep. If look at all the games above and the tiers I placed the QBs in, you really only start to see tier 1 QBs dominate post- 2008 ish. I guess that makes sense with the trends we've witnessed over the past 15 years that favor passing teams. |
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| Author: | Nas [ Mon Jan 23, 2023 1:21 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Reorganizing the QB Hierarchy |
Nardi wrote: Frank Coztansa wrote: Nardi wrote: If a league has only 6 QB's worth having, it's not a league worth watching. We have seen Jared Goff, Matthew Stafford, Nick Foles, Matt Ryan, Jimmy G, Joe Flacco, and a degraded Peyton Manning all start a Super Bowl fairly recently. I went back ten years. None of those guys would have been top 5/6 in the league at the time.You can get to and possibly win a Super Bowl with a tier 2, possibly even a tier 3 guy. Absolutely. There are more than 6 guys worth having. Nas' tier 4 , "it doesn't matter", I'll chalk it up to a hot take. I was being kind to Herbert and Hurts with my Tier 3. I think Mahomes, Burrow, Allen, and Jackson are the only quarterbacks that can carry a team. Rodgers, Murray, Stafford, Cousins, Dak, Carr, Goff, Lawrence, and Watson would be in that next tier. They're fine to have, but they're also interchangeable in a lot of ways. None of good enough to carry your team beyond a playoff appearance. They need a lot of help and a lot of breaks. |
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| Author: | veganfan21 [ Mon Jan 23, 2023 1:24 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Reorganizing the QB Hierarchy |
Forgot about Watson, have to massage the tiers to find a place for him. |
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| Author: | Frank Coztansa [ Mon Jan 23, 2023 1:32 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Reorganizing the QB Hierarchy |
Nas wrote: I think Mahomes, Burrow, Allen, and Jackson are the only quarterbacks that can carry a team. Soon, my friend.
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| Author: | Nardi [ Mon Jan 23, 2023 1:34 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Reorganizing the QB Hierarchy |
Nas wrote: Nardi wrote: Frank Coztansa wrote: Nardi wrote: If a league has only 6 QB's worth having, it's not a league worth watching. We have seen Jared Goff, Matthew Stafford, Nick Foles, Matt Ryan, Jimmy G, Joe Flacco, and a degraded Peyton Manning all start a Super Bowl fairly recently. I went back ten years. None of those guys would have been top 5/6 in the league at the time.You can get to and possibly win a Super Bowl with a tier 2, possibly even a tier 3 guy. Absolutely. There are more than 6 guys worth having. Nas' tier 4 , "it doesn't matter", I'll chalk it up to a hot take. I was being kind to Herbert and Hurts with my Tier 3. I think Mahomes, Burrow, Allen, and Jackson are the only quarterbacks that can carry a team. Rodgers, Murray, Stafford, Cousins, Dak, Carr, Goff, Lawrence, and Watson would be in that next tier. They're fine to have, but they're also interchangeable in a lot of ways. None of good enough to carry your team beyond a playoff appearance. They need a lot of help and a lot of breaks. Getting to tier 3 is an accomplishment. I'm just trying to be rational here, so there has to be a tier 4. Otherwise, the Bears have never had a QB who mattered, along with bunches of other teams. If your entire football fandom's basket of eggs is based on tier 1 and 2, it's an empty basket and a sad fandom. |
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| Author: | Regular Reader [ Mon Jan 23, 2023 1:38 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Reorganizing the QB Hierarchy |
veganfan21 wrote: Forgot about Watson, have to massage the tiers to find a place for him. Rub Mac Jones right on off…any tier. |
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| Author: | Nas [ Mon Jan 23, 2023 1:39 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Reorganizing the QB Hierarchy |
Frank Coztansa wrote: Nas wrote: I think Mahomes, Burrow, Allen, and Jackson are the only quarterbacks that can carry a team. Soon, my friend.I pray that you're right. |
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| Author: | Ca||er Bob [ Mon Jan 23, 2023 1:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Reorganizing the QB Hierarchy |
Nardi wrote: it's an empty basket and a sad fandom. 
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| Author: | This Ends in Antioch [ Mon Jan 23, 2023 1:42 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Reorganizing the QB Hierarchy |
| Author: | Urlacher's missing neck [ Mon Jan 23, 2023 1:44 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Reorganizing the QB Hierarchy |
Nas wrote: Frank Coztansa wrote: Nas wrote: I think Mahomes, Burrow, Allen, and Jackson are the only quarterbacks that can carry a team. Soon, my friend.I pray that you're right. He's getting that work in already. I saw a story on the new team president visiting the facility only to find it was really a story praising Fields and his eternal work ethic as he was crushing a workout in the gym. Not as good as the vacation treadmill piece but there is plenty of time for them to write a dozen or so of those before camp starts. |
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| Author: | This Ends in Antioch [ Mon Jan 23, 2023 1:46 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Reorganizing the QB Hierarchy |
Urlacher's missing neck wrote: Nas wrote: Frank Coztansa wrote: Nas wrote: I think Mahomes, Burrow, Allen, and Jackson are the only quarterbacks that can carry a team. Soon, my friend.I pray that you're right. He's getting that work in already. I saw a story on the new team president visiting the facility only to find it was really a story praising Fields and his eternal work ethic as he was crushing a workout in the gym. Not as good as the vacation treadmill piece but there is plenty of time for them to write a dozen or so of those before camp starts. Is there a video of him getting out of his car at Halas Hall before the sun comes up, well before anybody else is working (aside from the media guy taking the video)? |
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| Author: | Caller Bob [ Mon Jan 23, 2023 1:47 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Reorganizing the QB Hierarchy |
Urlacher's missing neck wrote: Nas wrote: Frank Coztansa wrote: Nas wrote: I think Mahomes, Burrow, Allen, and Jackson are the only quarterbacks that can carry a team. Soon, my friend.I pray that you're right. He's getting that work in already. I saw a story on the new team president visiting the facility only to find it was really a story praising Fields and his eternal work ethic as he was crushing a workout in the gym. Not as good as the vacation treadmill piece but there is plenty of time for them to write a dozen or so of those before camp starts. Better than the "No DeVante makes the Packers better"pieces? |
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| Author: | veganfan21 [ Mon Jan 23, 2023 2:08 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Reorganizing the QB Hierarchy |
Regular Reader wrote: veganfan21 wrote: Forgot about Watson, have to massage the tiers to find a place for him. Rub Mac Jones right on off…any tier. That's Daniel - Mac will compete with Mitch for best journeyman backup in the next 1-2 years. |
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| Author: | Regular Reader [ Mon Jan 23, 2023 3:26 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Reorganizing the QB Hierarchy |
I’d still pause on the Daniel Jones love. Six seven games aren’t enough imo. |
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| Author: | veganfan21 [ Mon Jan 23, 2023 3:31 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Reorganizing the QB Hierarchy |
Regular Reader wrote: I’d still pause on the Daniel Jones love. Six seven games aren’t enough imo. No love from me, just saying I see him on the Smith, Carr, Goff, etc., level. |
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| Author: | Seacrest [ Mon Jan 23, 2023 6:02 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Reorganizing the QB Hierarchy |
This Ends in Antioch wrote: Can't tackle. 
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| Author: | IkeSouth [ Mon Jan 23, 2023 6:45 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Reorganizing the QB Hierarchy |
i think qbs have gotten better over the past few decades but the defenses got betterer |
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| Author: | 312player [ Mon Jan 23, 2023 8:07 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Reorganizing the QB Hierarchy |
Ain't nobody taking lamar jackson over Hurts. |
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| Author: | 312player [ Mon Jan 23, 2023 8:08 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Reorganizing the QB Hierarchy |
veganfan21 wrote: Regular Reader wrote: I’d still pause on the Daniel Jones love. Six seven games aren’t enough imo. No love from me, just saying I see him on the Smith, Carr, Goff, etc., level. I do too, he had the worst WRs in the league |
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| Author: | Nas [ Mon Jan 23, 2023 8:12 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Reorganizing the QB Hierarchy |
312player wrote: Ain't nobody taking lamar jackson over Hurts. Everyone would. Don't let an injured fantasy season cloud your judgment. Hurts couldn't carry an offense if his life depended on it. |
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