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Nas wrote:

Zippy-The-Pinhead wrote:

Caller Bob wrote:

Ken Griffey Jr?

Barry Bonds
Moises Alou
Prince Fielder
Peyton & Eli Manning
Roberto Alomar & Sandy Alomar, Jr.
Floyd Mayweather, Jr.

The Hulls and we're 2 years away from a 3rd generation of Mannings. I think Clay Matthew's dad or uncle played in the NFL too, but he sucked away his HoF chances at the end.

I think you guys are proving my point here. HOF athletes rarely have offspring who can match their athletic prowess.

Nas wrote:

Tall Midget wrote:

I agree about Odunze: His success seems more a product of Penix's skill level than his own innate greatness.

I haven't seen enough of MHJ yet to offer an opinion. I will say, though, that I find the "pedigree" argument unconvincing. It is very rare that the offspring of a great professional athlete turns out to be as good or better than his father.

It's rare for great athletes to produce great athletes. That said, MANY talented athletes are the product of athletically talented parents. Football appears to have cracked some code recently. Look at the drafts over the past 5 years or so, and you'll find the children of former players being drafted high and playing well. I don't know if any of them are as physically gifted as MHJ. I don't know if his dad was as physically gifted as this kid is. As we've seen with Fields, your physical tools can only carry you so far.

Does he have the “killer” instinct his supposedly had?

Losing 2x to Michigan and Georgia in the semis last year and being the 2nd or 3rd option on his team in big games doesn't scream generational talent. But the 19 year dbacks across the way were focused on shutting down MHJ so Egbuka was freed up to cook...generational talent all the way, getting shut down by Indiana, not unlike Justin Fields when he was at Ohio State.

who cares about a season, how about win a meaningful game; maybe even a generational talent could be the reason a team wins? e.g., Cooper Kupp dragging the Rams to a Super Bowl victory.

Nas wrote:

Zippy-The-Pinhead wrote:

Caller Bob wrote:

Ken Griffey Jr?

Barry Bonds
Moises Alou
Prince Fielder
Peyton & Eli Manning
Roberto Alomar & Sandy Alomar, Jr.
Floyd Mayweather, Jr.

The Hulls and we're 2 years away from a 3rd generation of Mannings. I think Clay Matthew's dad or uncle played in the NFL too, but he sucked away his HoF chances at the end.

I think you guys are proving my point here. HOF athletes rarely have offspring who can match their athletic prowess.

Tall Midget wrote:

Nas wrote:

Zippy-The-Pinhead wrote:

Caller Bob wrote:

Ken Griffey Jr?

Barry Bonds
Moises Alou
Prince Fielder
Peyton & Eli Manning
Roberto Alomar & Sandy Alomar, Jr.
Floyd Mayweather, Jr.

The Hulls and we're 2 years away from a 3rd generation of Mannings. I think Clay Matthew's dad or uncle played in the NFL too, but he sucked away his HoF chances at the end.

I think you guys are proving my point here. HOF athletes rarely have offspring who can match their athletic prowess.

A HOF athlete is a rarity to begin with, so the odds would be pretty long that an offspring becomes better. That said, I’d be willing to bet that an athletes kid is more likely to succeed in sports given the combination of exposure, training and genetics.

Hussra coming out strongly against MHJ has my attention.

Zippy-The-Pinhead wrote:

Caller Bob wrote:

Ken Griffey Jr?

Barry Bonds
Moises Alou
Prince Fielder
Peyton & Eli Manning
Roberto Alomar & Sandy Alomar, Jr.
Floyd Mayweather, Jr.

The Hulls and we're 2 years away from a 3rd generation of Mannings. I think Clay Matthew's dad or uncle played in the NFL too, but he sucked away his HoF chances at the end.

which bad opinions would those be? Like when I predicted in September before the first snap of this season that Lamar would be MVP and
the Ravens win the Super Bowl? Terrible opinions, for sure.

I just think it's odd that all we heard about all season is how Marvin Harrison Jr is the 2nd coming of Randy Moss and it turns out he's more Iraqi Republican Guard than an actual winning talent:

What did Randy Moss "win" in college? You are all over the place here.

Caller Bob wrote:

What did Randy Moss "win" in college? You are all over the place here.

Bears missing the playoffs by 1 W?

Fields stays healthy, I think there's 1 more W in the games Bagent kept throwing picks in:

and the way the media and fans love, love love them some Justin Fields...Fields QB's the Bears back to the post-season, they probably would've found a way to give him some kind of award, maybe the MHJ Commemorative Generational Talent award.

You don't dismiss them entirely, but you adjust what you're seeing on the field right now to account for the fact that Penix is playing his 6th season of college ball against mostly teenagers with 1 to 3 years of college experience.

Nardi wrote:

Tall Midget wrote:

Hussra wrote:

Penix is playing well--as you'd expect a 24 year old 6th year player to do against 18-20 year olds. :lol:

I don't see a team risking a top 10 1st round pick on Penix--esp with other options available who aren't old dudes approaching retirement age picking apart teenager-rostered defenses

Penix played very well at Indiana of all places and then revived the moribund football program at Washington. I'd certainly look at him closely if I were Poles.

You certainly don't cavalierly dismiss someone because they're 24. I find that nuts.

More than age, his throwing motion throws me off. This coming from someone who competed against a lefty brother for a chunk of my life. It just looks too stiff.

Hussra wrote:

Caller Bob wrote:

What did Randy Moss "win" in college? You are all over the place here.

MHJ was the best WR talent in a group that included Olave, Wilson, Smith Njigba and Egbuka. They all look good to great in the NFL.

I don't think anyone worried about taking Olave and Wilson high in the first round. I wouldn't worry about MHJ.

He is better than Odunze but I wouldn't split hairs too finely with this years top WR. They are all good. Odunze doesn't get as much separation as MHJ and Nabers. If you are keeping Fields, you better get a guy with separation if you want Justin to throw him the ball.

good dolphin wrote:

that's my sense that if MHJ's name weren't Harrison Jr, he'd still be yet another good to great OSU WR entering the NFL. Seems to be a halo effect from the name that makes folks think he's going straight from Columbus to Canton.

Ever since Matt Millen ruined the Lions for years taking Wide Receivers draft after draft in the top 10, gun-shy about taking a WR that high in the draft--unless it's a legit once in a generation receiver like a Moss or Megatron. Or you're pairing up a Joe Burrow with his security blanket receiver type situation.

No question MHJ will be the 1st WR off the board in the draft.

Author:	Nas [ Tue Jan 02, 2024 8:34 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Odunze vs MHJ
Tall Midget wrote: Nas wrote: Zippy-The-Pinhead wrote: Caller Bob wrote: Ken Griffey Jr? Barry Bonds Moises Alou Prince Fielder Peyton & Eli Manning Roberto Alomar & Sandy Alomar, Jr. Floyd Mayweather, Jr. The Hulls and we're 2 years away from a 3rd generation of Mannings. I think Clay Matthew's dad or uncle played in the NFL too, but he sucked away his HoF chances at the end. I think you guys are proving my point here. HOF athletes rarely have offspring who can match their athletic prowess. I was in agreement with you. The talent is there, I don't know if he has the killer in him that his dad had.

Author:	Nas [ Tue Jan 02, 2024 8:37 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Odunze vs MHJ
Hawg Ass wrote: Nas wrote: Tall Midget wrote: I agree about Odunze: His success seems more a product of Penix's skill level than his own innate greatness. I haven't seen enough of MHJ yet to offer an opinion. I will say, though, that I find the "pedigree" argument unconvincing. It is very rare that the offspring of a great professional athlete turns out to be as good or better than his father. It's rare for great athletes to produce great athletes. That said, MANY talented athletes are the product of athletically talented parents. Football appears to have cracked some code recently. Look at the drafts over the past 5 years or so, and you'll find the children of former players being drafted high and playing well. I don't know if any of them are as physically gifted as MHJ. I don't know if his dad was as physically gifted as this kid is. As we've seen with Fields, your physical tools can only carry you so far. Does he have the “killer” instinct his supposedly had? It's worth a shot to find out. Sr. allegedly liked to shoot with guns in both hands.

Author:	Hussra [ Tue Jan 02, 2024 8:44 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Odunze vs MHJ
Losing 2x to Michigan and Georgia in the semis last year and being the 2nd or 3rd option on his team in big games doesn't scream generational talent. But the 19 year dbacks across the way were focused on shutting down MHJ so Egbuka was freed up to cook...generational talent all the way, getting shut down by Indiana, not unlike Justin Fields when he was at Ohio State.

Author:	Nas [ Tue Jan 02, 2024 8:53 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Odunze vs MHJ
Hussra coming out strongly against MHJ has my attention.

Author:	312player [ Tue Jan 02, 2024 8:58 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Odunze vs MHJ
Hussra wrote: Losing 2x to Michigan and Georgia in the semis last year and being the 2nd or 3rd option on his team in big games doesn't scream generational talent. But the 19 year dbacks across the way were focused on shutting down MHJ so Egbuka was freed up to cook...generational talent all the way, getting shut down by Indiana, not unlike Justin Fields when he was at Ohio State. If you look at the top 20 WR best seasons in ncaa history, maybe 3 of those guys amounted to anything in the nfl.

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Author:	Hussra [ Tue Jan 02, 2024 9:02 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Odunze vs MHJ
who cares about a season, how about win a meaningful game; maybe even a generational talent could be the reason a team wins? e.g., Cooper Kupp dragging the Rams to a Super Bowl victory.

Author:	Nas [ Tue Jan 02, 2024 9:05 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Odunze vs MHJ
Hussra wrote: who cares about a season, how about win a meaningful game; maybe even a generational talent could be the reason a team wins? e.g., Cooper Kupp dragging the Rams to a Super Bowl victory. Did you watch the Ohio State and Michigan game? When they threw the ball in his zip code he caught it. Ohio State wasn't beating Georgia last year. It's not like they lost to TCU.

Author:	Hussra [ Tue Jan 02, 2024 9:09 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Odunze vs MHJ
One of his better games, yes; but generationally great? Nah.

Author:	Franky T [ Tue Jan 02, 2024 9:30 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Odunze vs MHJ
Whichever one Caller Idiot wants, you should hope the Bears draft the other.

Author:	Zippy-The-Pinhead [ Tue Jan 02, 2024 9:54 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Odunze vs MHJ
Tall Midget wrote: Nas wrote: Zippy-The-Pinhead wrote: Caller Bob wrote: Ken Griffey Jr? Barry Bonds Moises Alou Prince Fielder Peyton & Eli Manning Roberto Alomar & Sandy Alomar, Jr. Floyd Mayweather, Jr. The Hulls and we're 2 years away from a 3rd generation of Mannings. I think Clay Matthew's dad or uncle played in the NFL too, but he sucked away his HoF chances at the end. I think you guys are proving my point here. HOF athletes rarely have offspring who can match their athletic prowess. A HOF athlete is a rarity to begin with, so the odds would be pretty long that an offspring becomes better. That said, I’d be willing to bet that an athletes kid is more likely to succeed in sports given the combination of exposure, training and genetics.

Author:	Tall Midget [ Wed Jan 03, 2024 4:46 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Odunze vs MHJ
Zippy-The-Pinhead wrote: Tall Midget wrote: Nas wrote: Zippy-The-Pinhead wrote: Caller Bob wrote: Ken Griffey Jr? Barry Bonds Moises Alou Prince Fielder Peyton & Eli Manning Roberto Alomar & Sandy Alomar, Jr. Floyd Mayweather, Jr. The Hulls and we're 2 years away from a 3rd generation of Mannings. I think Clay Matthew's dad or uncle played in the NFL too, but he sucked away his HoF chances at the end. I think you guys are proving my point here. HOF athletes rarely have offspring who can match their athletic prowess. A HOF athlete is a rarity to begin with, so the odds would be pretty long that an offspring becomes better. That said, I’d be willing to bet that an athletes kid is more likely to succeed in sports given the combination of exposure, training and genetics. Your first sentence only serves to support my argument. Your second sentence is so vague as to have almost no meaning. How is "success" defined in this context? A Pro Bowl player? An NFL starter? A good college player but marginal NFL player? A college player who doesn't make it to the pros? A high-level high school player?

Author:	RFDC [ Wed Jan 03, 2024 9:21 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Odunze vs MHJ
Nas wrote: Hussra coming out strongly against MHJ has my attention. It shouldn't. He loves doing this bit. He takes a strange contrarian position and throws a bunch of shit against a wall to see if he can get it to stick. When it ends up wrong he just shrugs his shoulders and moves on to the next bad opinion

Author:	man of few opinions [ Wed Jan 03, 2024 9:44 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Odunze vs MHJ
Nas wrote: Zippy-The-Pinhead wrote: Caller Bob wrote: Ken Griffey Jr? Barry Bonds Moises Alou Prince Fielder Peyton & Eli Manning Roberto Alomar & Sandy Alomar, Jr. Floyd Mayweather, Jr. The Hulls and we're 2 years away from a 3rd generation of Mannings. I think Clay Matthew's dad or uncle played in the NFL too, but he sucked away his HoF chances at the end. Clay Matthews dad played forever in the NFL and has the third most tackles ever. His uncle is in the Hall of Fame.

Author:	Hussra [ Wed Jan 03, 2024 10:13 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Odunze vs MHJ
which bad opinions would those be? Like when I predicted in September before the first snap of this season that Lamar would be MVP and the Ravens win the Super Bowl? Terrible opinions, for sure. I just think it's odd that all we heard about all season is how Marvin Harrison Jr is the 2nd coming of Randy Moss and it turns out he's more Iraqi Republican Guard than an actual winning talent:

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Author:	Nas [ Wed Jan 03, 2024 10:19 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Odunze vs MHJ
Hussra wrote: which bad opinions would those be? Like when I predicted in September before the first snap of this season that Lamar would be MVP and the Ravens win the Super Bowl? Terrible opinions, for sure. I just think it's odd that all we heard about all season is how Marvin Harrison Jr is the 2nd coming of Randy Moss and it turns out he's more Iraqi Republican Guard than an actual winning talent: Where do you place MHJ in this draft class? Where do rank him when it comes to WRs? Who would you take with the first pick?

Author:	RFDC [ Wed Jan 03, 2024 10:21 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Odunze vs MHJ
Hussra wrote: which bad opinions would those be? Like when I predicted in September before the first snap of this season that Lamar would be MVP and the Ravens win the Super Bowl? Terrible opinions, for sure. I just think it's odd that all we heard about all season is how Marvin Harrison Jr is the 2nd coming of Randy Moss and it turns out he's more Iraqi Republican Guard than an actual winning talent: you also have the Bears making the playoffs with Fields being a stud You throw enough shit against a wall you are going to hit once in awhile.

Author:	Caller Bob [ Wed Jan 03, 2024 10:24 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Odunze vs MHJ
What did Randy Moss "win" in college? You are all over the place here.

Author:	Hussra [ Wed Jan 03, 2024 10:26 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Odunze vs MHJ
Caller Bob wrote: What did Randy Moss "win" in college? You are all over the place here.

Author:	Hussra [ Wed Jan 03, 2024 10:47 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Odunze vs MHJ
Bears missing the playoffs by 1 W? Fields stays healthy, I think there's 1 more W in the games Bagent kept throwing picks in: and the way the media and fans love, love love them some Justin Fields...Fields QB's the Bears back to the post-season, they probably would've found a way to give him some kind of award, maybe the MHJ Commemorative Generational Talent award.

Author:	Nas [ Wed Jan 03, 2024 10:50 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Odunze vs MHJ
Hussra wrote: Bears missing the playoffs by 1 W? Fields stays healthy, I think there's 1 more W in the games Bagent kept throwing picks in: and the way the media and fans love, love love them some Justin Fields...Fields QB's the Bears back to the post-season, they probably would've found a way to give him some kind of award, maybe the MHJ Commemorative Generational Talent award. Where do you place MHJ in this draft class? Where do rank him when it comes to WRs? Who would you take with the first pick?

Author:	good dolphin [ Wed Jan 03, 2024 10:55 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Odunze vs MHJ
Hussra wrote: You don't dismiss them entirely, but you adjust what you're seeing on the field right now to account for the fact that Penix is playing his 6th season of college ball against mostly teenagers with 1 to 3 years of college experience. then take a look at pennix playing for IU when he was younger with talent that was bottom of the big 10

Author:	Hussra [ Wed Jan 03, 2024 11:01 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Odunze vs MHJ
Hell if I know, I mean, isn't the combine kind of important for these things? Current feeling after watching his youtube shit....If he checks out with the doctors, you take Penix IF you're the Bears / a team on Bears timeline. Bears O-Line should hold up well enough to keep him from taking too many shots. Penix only took 10 sacks all season, only 2 multiple (2 sacks ea) games Bears probably rather not start all over with a raw 20-21 year old rookie QB. Bears situation is an exception where Penix age/experience make him the better pick over potential head-case Caleb and many unknowns with the others. Course the combine + other info will no doubt come out btw now and last week of April

Author:	good dolphin [ Wed Jan 03, 2024 11:10 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Odunze vs MHJ
MHJ was the best WR talent in a group that included Olave, Wilson, Smith Njigba and Egbuka. They all look good to great in the NFL. I don't think anyone worried about taking Olave and Wilson high in the first round. I wouldn't worry about MHJ. He is better than Odunze but I wouldn't split hairs too finely with this years top WR. They are all good. Odunze doesn't get as much separation as MHJ and Nabers. If you are keeping Fields, you better get a guy with separation if you want Justin to throw him the ball.

Author:	Franky T [ Wed Jan 03, 2024 11:11 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Odunze vs MHJ
man of few opinions wrote: Hussra wrote: Caller Bob wrote: What did Randy Moss "win" in college? You are all over the place here.

Author:	Hussra [ Wed Jan 03, 2024 11:20 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Odunze vs MHJ
good dolphin wrote: MHJ was the best WR talent in a group that included Olave, Wilson, Smith Njigba and Egbuka. They all look good to great in the NFL. I don't think anyone worried about taking Olave and Wilson high in the first round. I wouldn't worry about MHJ. He is better than Odunze but I wouldn't split hairs too finely with this years top WR. They are all good. Odunze doesn't get as much separation as MHJ and Nabers. If you are keeping Fields, you better get a guy with separation if you want Justin to throw him the ball. that's my sense that if MHJ's name weren't Harrison Jr, he'd still be yet another good to great OSU WR entering the NFL. Seems to be a halo effect from the name that makes folks think he's going straight from Columbus to Canton. Ever since Matt Millen ruined the Lions for years taking Wide Receivers draft after draft in the top 10, gun-shy about taking a WR that high in the draft--unless it's a legit once in a generation receiver like a Moss or Megatron. Or you're pairing up a Joe Burrow with his security blanket receiver type situation. No question MHJ will be the 1st WR off the board in the draft.

Author:	good dolphin [ Wed Jan 03, 2024 12:37 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Odunze vs MHJ
Hussra wrote: good dolphin wrote: MHJ was the best WR talent in a group that included Olave, Wilson, Smith Njigba and Egbuka. They all look good to great in the NFL. I don't think anyone worried about taking Olave and Wilson high in the first round. I wouldn't worry about MHJ. He is better than Odunze but I wouldn't split hairs too finely with this years top WR. They are all good. Odunze doesn't get as much separation as MHJ and Nabers. If you are keeping Fields, you better get a guy with separation if you want Justin to throw him the ball. that's my sense that if MHJ's name weren't Harrison Jr, he'd still be yet another good to great OSU WR entering the NFL. Seems to be a halo effect from the name that makes folks think he's going straight from Columbus to Canton. Ever since Matt Millen ruined the Lions for years taking Wide Receivers draft after draft in the top 10, gun-shy about taking a WR that high in the draft--unless it's a legit once in a generation receiver like a Moss or Megatron. Or you're pairing up a Joe Burrow with his security blanket receiver type situation. No question MHJ will be the 1st WR off the board in the draft. I think you are reading me wrong. Olave and Wilson were almost immediate Pro Bowl level WR after being top 10 picks. That's Harrison's floor.

Author:	Tall Midget [ Wed Jan 03, 2024 3:28 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Odunze vs MHJ
good dolphin wrote: MHJ was the best WR talent in a group that included Olave, Wilson, Smith Njigba and Egbuka. They all look good to great in the NFL. I don't think anyone worried about taking Olave and Wilson high in the first round. I wouldn't worry about MHJ. He is better than Odunze but I wouldn't split hairs too finely with this years top WR. They are all good. Odunze doesn't get as much separation as MHJ and Nabers. If you are keeping Fields, you better get a guy with separation if you want Justin to throw him the ball. Would Odunze be considered a top prospect if he weren't playing with Penix?

Author:	Caller Bob [ Wed Jan 03, 2024 3:31 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Odunze vs MHJ
Tall Midget wrote: playing with Penix? It would make him the best prospect since Michael Sam.