Rose was efficient in 2011. A .550 TS% is very good, especially for a PG with a usage rate like you mentioned.

But again, we already covered efficiency. Kawhi is much more efficient than Dominique ever was. Given the data we have, it's impossible to justify saying Dominique was a great scorer and Kawhi is not.

It's also funny that we have only focused on scoring. If we look at their overall games the comparison just gets silly.

One guy averaged 25 points and 7 rebounds a game and shot 46% from the field over a damn near 20 year career. The other guy is averaging 15 points and 6 rebounds after 6 years and you're telling everyone that he's a better scorer and rebounder. His actual numbers say you're wrong. His career year still comes up short when it comes to what Dominique actually averaged over nearly 20 years.

It's funny you keep mentioning 46%. You do realize that hurts your argument rather than helping it, right?

Also, the rest of your post is just arguing who had the better career and ignoring advanced stats because they hurt your argument.

I understand that 46% isn't better than what Leonard is shooting today. If he plays 20 years there won't be much of a difference.

No one gives a crap about advanced stats when comparing players. If I ask you how many points does Kawhi score, you aren't going to tell me 40 per 100 possessions. If I ask you how many rebounds does he get a game, you aren't going to tell me 11 per 100 possessions.

Considering the Spurs pace of play is faster than the teams that Dominique has been on all you're saying is Leonard isn't on the floor long enough. You know what happens when players play a ton of mins? They get tired. You know what happens when players get tired? They aren't as effective.

You're all over the place here. You want to use Nique's point totals per game, but then want to dismiss his FG% per game because he was "tired".

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... aka01.html

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... ido01.html

It's really simple. If you are in favor of ignoring additional, useful data and just want to look at traditional stats, I can see how you would think Nique is better. If you look at all the data available, the choice is pretty easily Kawhi. And that's without even mentioning that Kawhi is on his way to being possibly the best defensive player in history.

I've looked at their numbers. Dominique shot 48% for most of his career. That's great for a scorer. A guy like Kobe would have killed for that.

A lower usage rate doesn't make him a better scorer or rebounder. I'm sure you can find bench guys with low usage rates that project to be better than all time greats. They give titles out for traditional numbers. They don't pass out scoring and rebounding titles out for hypothetical numbers.

Wake me when Kawhi averages 30 points and 8 rebounds in a season. Kawhi wasn't the leader of any of those teams and he still may not be now.

Wake me when Kawhi averages 30 points and 8 rebounds in a season. Kawhi wasn't the leader of any of those teams and he still may not be now.

Ok. Good talk. I look forward to hearing you rank MLB players based off RBI totals this upcoming season.

"Jose Abreu averages 55 home runs and 150 RBI per 700 plate appearances"

That ain't shit if you can't guard anyone. Melo is this generation's Nique. Both are more capable versions of someone like Ricky Davis - scoring, some ancillary stats, and not much else.

Great scorers aren't usually asked to defend because they need to use that energy on offense.

That's unequivocally false. Just look at Jordan, LeBron, young Kobe, young D Wade, etc.

That's unequivocally false. Just look at Jordan, LeBron, young Kobe, young D Wade, etc.

Those guys are exceptions and Wade shouldn't be on the list with those 3. He was never an elite defender. He just blocked shots in the way AI got steals.

FF, Vegan, et al...I know you're both significantly younger than me. Did either of you see 'Nique in his prime? He was a stud. Top 3 for a few yrs. Kawhi has become a great player but stats be damned...he's not the player DW was (keeping in mind the respective eras).

FF, Vegan, et al...I know you're both significantly younger than me. Did either of you see 'Nique in his prime? He was a stud. Top 3 for a few yrs. Kawhi has become a great player but stats be damned...he's not the player DW was (keeping in mind the respective eras).

I don't think I saw him at all

Listen, I know he was a stud. But he excelled at just one facet of the game. Without necessarily pointing to Kawhi, I just think the more dynamic players generally add more value to a given team. I think an ideal comp for Nique is Melo - the career numbers are eerily similar.

He rebounded the ball too. He just didn't have to play defense.

He rebounded the ball too. He just didn't have to play defense.

I don't think I saw him at all

Listen, I know he was a stud. But he excelled at just one facet of the game. Without necessarily pointing to Kawhi, I just think the more dynamic players generally add more value to a given team. I think an ideal comp for Nique is Melo - the career numbers are eerily similar.

Hard to tell if you're talking about Melo or Nique still.

"Didn't have to" is an odd way of putting it.

Marshmelo could never score like Dominique and Marshmelo isn't in the same class as Dominique. In a much tougher league Dominique was a top 3 scorer and top 10 player most of his career. He destroyed all time great defenders like Scottie even late in his career. Bird and Jordan kept him from the Finals because both were much better players. BTW Bird wasn't a good defender either but he'll always be better than 15 points and 6 rebounds Leonard.