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PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 5:09 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
long time guy wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
Nas wrote:
He couldn't be the best player on any team. He's a top 50 player that's been overrated for years.

He could be but it wouldn’t be a great team. He’s a perfect 3rd best player. As a 4th best player it’s fyntasy situation (as we’re seeing).

Anyone who is a top 3 DPOY player annually and can shoot 3s and averages 7 apg is a special player. Because he doesn’t score 25 a game is a terrible reason to knock a player.



He struggles to score 10 on most nights.

He averages 10. Wrong again.


He drops ten per game actually.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 5:10 pm 
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leashyourkids wrote:
A role player can't be top 15.

Defense matters. I know you millennials are all about the dunks and 3 pointers but it’s still basketball. Reigning DPOY’s aren’t role players my friend.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 5:11 pm 
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veganfan21 wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
long time guy wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
Nas wrote:
He couldn't be the best player on any team. He's a top 50 player that's been overrated for years.

He could be but it wouldn’t be a great team. He’s a perfect 3rd best player. As a 4th best player it’s fyntasy situation (as we’re seeing).

Anyone who is a top 3 DPOY player annually and can shoot 3s and averages 7 apg is a special player. Because he doesn’t score 25 a game is a terrible reason to knock a player.



He struggles to score 10 on most nights.

He averages 10. Wrong again.


He drops ten per game actually.



Your inference ability is proving to be worse than JLN's.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 5:13 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
A role player can't be top 15.

Defense matters. I know you millennials are all about the dunks and 3 pointers but it’s still basketball. Reigning DPOY’s aren’t role players my friend.



They have been.

Number of Role players on this list.

https://www.nba.com/history/awards/defe ... f-the-year

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Last edited by long time guy on Sun Mar 11, 2018 5:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 5:13 pm 
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Better players on Western Conference playoff teams

1. Chris Paul
2. James Harden
3. Steph Curry
4. Kevin Durant
5. Klay Thompson
6. Damien Lillard
7. CJ McCollum
8. Jusuf Nurkic
9. Anthony Davis
10. DeMarcus Cousins
11. Jrue Holiday
12. Jimmy Butler
13. Karl-Anthony Towns
14. Russell Westbrook
15. Paul George
16. Marshmelo Anthony
17. LaMarcus Aldridge
18. Kawhi Leonard
19. DeAndre Jordan
20. Lou Williams
21. Nikola Jokic

We're at 21 players without including the East or the rest of the West. Top 50 may have been a little generous. Clearly not a top 15 player.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 5:14 pm 
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Houston has as much, if not more, offensive firepower than the Warriors do. When they meetup the difference in the series will be Draymond Green.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 5:15 pm 
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Nas wrote:
Better players on Western Conference playoff teams

1. Chris Paul
2. James Harden
3. Steph Curry
4. Kevin Durant
5. Klay Thompson
6. Damien Lillard
7. CJ McCollum
8. Jusuf Nurkic
9. Anthony Davis
10. DeMarcus Cousins
11. Jrue Holiday
12. Jimmy Butler
13. Karl-Anthony Towns
14. Russell Westbrook
15. Paul George
16. Marshmelo Anthony
17. LaMarcus Aldridge
18. Kawhi Leonard
19. DeAndre Jordan
20. Lou Williams
21. Nikola Jokic

We're at 21 players without including the East or the rest of the West. Top 50 may have been a little generous. Clearly not a top 15 player.

The fact you have Melo on there proves my theory you haven’t actually watched basketball in five years.

The rest of the list is, of course, ridiculous.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 5:16 pm 
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long time guy wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
A role player can't be top 15.

Defense matters. I know you millennials are all about the dunks and 3 pointers but it’s still basketball. Reigning DPOY’s aren’t role players my friend.



They have been.


Bruce Bowen was a great defender that gave some of the greatest scorers fits and he could knock down a 3 but no one tried to convince us that he was a top 15 player

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 5:18 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
Nas wrote:
Better players on Western Conference playoff teams

1. Chris Paul
2. James Harden
3. Steph Curry
4. Kevin Durant
5. Klay Thompson
6. Damien Lillard
7. CJ McCollum
8. Jusuf Nurkic
9. Anthony Davis
10. DeMarcus Cousins
11. Jrue Holiday
12. Jimmy Butler
13. Karl-Anthony Towns
14. Russell Westbrook
15. Paul George
16. Marshmelo Anthony
17. LaMarcus Aldridge
18. Kawhi Leonard
19. DeAndre Jordan
20. Lou Williams
21. Nikola Jokic

We're at 21 players without including the East or the rest of the West. Top 50 may have been a little generous. Clearly not a top 15 player.

The fact you have Melo on there proves my theory you haven’t actually watched basketball in five years.

The rest of the list is, of course, ridiculous.


We could argue about Marshmelo and a couple of other players. I think 80% of the list can't be debated and this is just West playoff teams. You're dead wrong my friend.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 5:19 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
Nas wrote:
Better players on Western Conference playoff teams

1. Chris Paul
2. James Harden
3. Steph Curry
4. Kevin Durant
5. Klay Thompson
6. Damien Lillard
7. CJ McCollum
8. Jusuf Nurkic
9. Anthony Davis
10. DeMarcus Cousins
11. Jrue Holiday
12. Jimmy Butler
13. Karl-Anthony Towns
14. Russell Westbrook
15. Paul George
16. Marshmelo Anthony
17. LaMarcus Aldridge
18. Kawhi Leonard
19. DeAndre Jordan
20. Lou Williams
21. Nikola Jokic

We're at 21 players without including the East or the rest of the West. Top 50 may have been a little generous. Clearly not a top 15 player.

The fact you have Melo on there proves my theory you haven’t actually watched basketball in five years.

The rest of the list is, of course, ridiculous.



Rudy Gobert
Paul Milsap
Booker
Marc Gasol
Also better.

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Last edited by long time guy on Sun Mar 11, 2018 5:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 5:20 pm 
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Nas wrote:
long time guy wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
A role player can't be top 15.

Defense matters. I know you millennials are all about the dunks and 3 pointers but it’s still basketball. Reigning DPOY’s aren’t role players my friend.



They have been.


Bruce Bowen was a great defender that gave some of the greatest scorers fits and he could knock down a 3 but no one tried to convince us that he was a top 15 player

Did he average 7 apg while winning DPOY?

Did he throw down 32 points, 15 rebounds, and 9 assists while playing 47 minutes of a game 7 on the Finals?

Come on

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 5:20 pm 
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Nas wrote:
long time guy wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
A role player can't be top 15.

Defense matters. I know you millennials are all about the dunks and 3 pointers but it’s still basketball. Reigning DPOY’s aren’t role players my friend.



They have been.

Noah during his dpoy year was arguably top 15/20. Rodman or grant may have been top 15/20 during some seasons. Hornacek. Tayshuan Prince. Rondo.

Bruce Bowen was a great defender that gave some of the greatest scorers fits and he could knock down a 3 but no one tried to convince us that he was a top 15 player

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 5:21 pm 
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This thread verified those who appreciate defense and sharing the ball and those who don’t. Nothing else needs to be said.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 5:21 pm 
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Nas wrote:
long time guy wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
A role player can't be top 15.

Defense matters. I know you millennials are all about the dunks and 3 pointers but it’s still basketball. Reigning DPOY’s aren’t role players my friend.



They have been.



Bruce Bowen was a great defender that gave some of the greatest scorers fits and he could knock down a 3 but no one tried to convince us that he was a top 15 player


Noah during his dpoy year was arguably top 15/20. Rodman or grant may have been top 15/20 during some seasons. Hornacek. Tayshuan Prince. Rondo.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 5:21 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
Nas wrote:
long time guy wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
A role player can't be top 15.

Defense matters. I know you millennials are all about the dunks and 3 pointers but it’s still basketball. Reigning DPOY’s aren’t role players my friend.



They have been.


Bruce Bowen was a great defender that gave some of the greatest scorers fits and he could knock down a 3 but no one tried to convince us that he was a top 15 player

Did he average 7 apg while winning DPOY?

Did he throw down 32 points, 15 rebounds, and 9 assists while playing 47 minutes of a game 7 on the Finals?

Come on



So you're basing your opinion of him on one game?

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 5:22 pm 
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long time guy wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
Nas wrote:
long time guy wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
A role player can't be top 15.

Defense matters. I know you millennials are all about the dunks and 3 pointers but it’s still basketball. Reigning DPOY’s aren’t role players my friend.



They have been.


Bruce Bowen was a great defender that gave some of the greatest scorers fits and he could knock down a 3 but no one tried to convince us that he was a top 15 player

Did he average 7 apg while winning DPOY?

Did he throw down 32 points, 15 rebounds, and 9 assists while playing 47 minutes of a game 7 on the Finals?

Come on



So you're basing your opinion of him on one game?

No. Do you want me to list his credentials?

It’s clear you and Nas don’t value defense. Some of us do. It’s usually what separates champions from contenders.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 5:23 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
Nas wrote:
long time guy wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
A role player can't be top 15.

Defense matters. I know you millennials are all about the dunks and 3 pointers but it’s still basketball. Reigning DPOY’s aren’t role players my friend.



They have been.


Bruce Bowen was a great defender that gave some of the greatest scorers fits and he could knock down a 3 but no one tried to convince us that he was a top 15 player

Did he average 7 apg while winning DPOY?

Did he throw down 32 points, 15 rebounds, and 9 assists while playing 47 minutes of a game 7 on the Finals?

Come on


How many all time great scorers have Green given fits? He's an above average defender in a league that doesn't value defense.

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Blago: https://youtube.com/shorts/Lftdxd-YXt8?feature=share

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 5:24 pm 
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Nas, leash, or Ltg - please name the role players in nba history who have put up 32-15-9 in a game 7 Finals game. Hell, any Finals game. I’ll wait.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 5:25 pm 
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Nas wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
Nas wrote:
Better players on Western Conference playoff teams

1. Chris Paul
2. James Harden
3. Steph Curry
4. Kevin Durant
5. Klay Thompson
6. Damien Lillard
7. CJ McCollum
8. Jusuf Nurkic
9. Anthony Davis
10. DeMarcus Cousins
11. Jrue Holiday
12. Jimmy Butler
13. Karl-Anthony Towns
14. Russell Westbrook
15. Paul George
16. Marshmelo Anthony
17. LaMarcus Aldridge
18. Kawhi Leonard
19. DeAndre Jordan
20. Lou Williams
21. Nikola Jokic

We're at 21 players without including the East or the rest of the West. Top 50 may have been a little generous. Clearly not a top 15 player.

The fact you have Melo on there proves my theory you haven’t actually watched basketball in five years.

The rest of the list is, of course, ridiculous.


We could argue about Marshmelo and a couple of other players. I think 80% of the list can't be debated and this is just West playoff teams. You're dead wrong my friend.


Green is better than Anthony right now.
Bowen was a very good wing defender who had Duncan protecting the rim. Green not only can guard multiple positions, only Bogut and Durant have averaged more Blocks/gm then Green the past 5 years.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 5:25 pm 
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In the history of the League Defensive dominant players have never been the best player on a championship team. Save Ben Wallace also. He wasn't the best player on that squad.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 5:26 pm 
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Nas wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
Nas wrote:
long time guy wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
A role player can't be top 15.

Defense matters. I know you millennials are all about the dunks and 3 pointers but it’s still basketball. Reigning DPOY’s aren’t role players my friend.



They have been.


Bruce Bowen was a great defender that gave some of the greatest scorers fits and he could knock down a 3 but no one tried to convince us that he was a top 15 player

Did he average 7 apg while winning DPOY?

Did he throw down 32 points, 15 rebounds, and 9 assists while playing 47 minutes of a game 7 on the Finals?

Come on


How many all time great scorers have Green given fits? He's an above average defender in a league that doesn't value defense.

This just reconfirmed, again, my opinions that you don’t watch the league anymore.

Golden State, Houston, Boston, Toronto - all among the top defensive teams. Also the four best teams in the standings.

It’s a faster pace than in years past but defense is still being played, and it’s as important as ever.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 5:27 pm 
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veganfan21 wrote:
Nas wrote:
long time guy wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
A role player can't be top 15.

Defense matters. I know you millennials are all about the dunks and 3 pointers but it’s still basketball. Reigning DPOY’s aren’t role players my friend.



They have been.



Bruce Bowen was a great defender that gave some of the greatest scorers fits and he could knock down a 3 but no one tried to convince us that he was a top 15 player


Noah during his dpoy year was arguably top 15/20. Rodman or grant may have been top 15/20 during some seasons. Hornacek. Tayshuan Prince. Rondo.


Noah was the best player on the team and Rodman was the best rebounder and a top 5 defender. Green has never been the best player on any team in his life and he's not the best rebounder in the league.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 5:28 pm 
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long time guy wrote:
In the history of the League Defensive dominant players have never been the best player on a championship team. Save Ben Wallace also. He wasn't the best player on that squad.

I agree he wouldn’t be the best player on a championship team. You always go to one extreme or the other. On the other hand, no team he is on would ever win less than 25-30 games. That’s why your comment was so dumb earlier.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 5:28 pm 
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long time guy wrote:
In the history of the League Defensive dominant players have never been the best player on a championship team. Save Ben Wallace also. He wasn't the best player on that squad.


Bill Russell

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 5:29 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
long time guy wrote:
In the history of the League Defensive dominant players have never been the best player on a championship team. Save Ben Wallace also. He wasn't the best player on that squad.

I agree he wouldn’t be the best player on a championship team. You always go to one extreme or the other. On the other hand, no team he is on would ever win less than 25-30 games. That’s why your comment was so dumb earlier.


Poor FF validating strawman arguments.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 5:31 pm 
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I'm gonna give this a try:

In the history of the league no great defensive player with limited scoring skills has ever not been really talented.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 5:32 pm 
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veganfan21 wrote:
I'm gonna give this a try:

In the history of the league no great defensive player with limited scoring skills has ever not been really talented.

True, and this also underscores his obvious playnaking abilities. The number of DPOY winners averaging 7 apg is pretty low.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 5:33 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
Nas, leash, or Ltg - please name the role players in nba history who have put up 32-15-9 in a game 7 Finals game. Hell, any Finals game. I’ll wait.

Am I gonna be waiting awhile?

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 5:37 pm 
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Top 50 role players occasionally have great games. He had a great game. Clap for him. Going forward would you rather have Markkanen or Green?

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 5:38 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
Nas, leash, or Ltg - please name the role players in nba history who have put up 32-15-9 in a game 7 Finals game. Hell, any Finals game. I’ll wait.

Am I gonna be waiting awhile?


Wasn't Green suspended for a finals game that Cleveland won en route to winning in 7 games?

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