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Chris Paul or Allen Iverson?
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Author:  veganfan21 [ Tue Jul 30, 2019 1:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Chris Paul or Allen Iverson?
long time guy wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
Regular Reader wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
Unrelated but tmac could eat Iverson for breakfast and then have Paul as a mid morning snack.


And then fold in the playoffs.


Not like Paul has a better track record. patriot hasn't done shit in the league other than be a lower tier star.

And what sort of tier star do you think Tmac was? :lol:


Top tier. He was on par with Kobe. Unstoppable.

Kobe was only successful during the early 2000s because he had prime Shaq and PJ.


Then why aren't you comparing him to Kobe?


They were equals on a talent level until tmac's body broke down in Houston.
Author:  long time guy [ Tue Jul 30, 2019 1:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Chris Paul or Allen Iverson?
veganfan21 wrote:
long time guy wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
Regular Reader wrote:

And then fold in the playoffs.


Not like Paul has a better track record. patriot hasn't done shit in the league other than be a lower tier star.

And what sort of tier star do you think Tmac was? :lol:


Top tier. He was on par with Kobe. Unstoppable.

Kobe was only successful during the early 2000s because he had prime Shaq and PJ.


Then why aren't you comparing him to Kobe?


They were equals on a talent level until tmac's body broke down in Houston.


Maybe so. maybe not. Still not apt to compare him to Iverson or Paul. Size difference alone makes it a terrible comp.


He never has impacted winning in a way that either of those two have however.

I do agree at his peak he was every bit the player Kobe was. Still remember when they went at each other during the All Star game.

You could tell that is was not just another All Star game for those 2. Both had something to prove.
Author:  FavreFan [ Tue Jul 30, 2019 1:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Chris Paul or Allen Iverson?
veganfan21 wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
And what sort of tier star do you think Tmac was? :lol:


Top tier. He was on par with Kobe. Unstoppable.

Kobe was only successful during the early 2000s because he had prime Shaq and PJ.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

That's the worst opinion expressed in this thread by a mile.


Explain

There's nothing to explain. There's no evidence behind your stance. There's nothing to suggest he was ever a top tier star. He had a more irrelevant career than Carmelo Anthony. The 13 points in 35 seconds or whatever thing was cool but outside of that he was nothing but a selfish underachieving gunner who never made the 2nd round of the playoffs, a pretty damning stat considering the era in which he played. I'm glad he's more remembered for his laughable "feels good to be in the 2nd round" quote than anything he actually did on the court.
Author:  FavreFan [ Tue Jul 30, 2019 1:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Chris Paul or Allen Iverson?
veganfan21 wrote:
They were equals on a talent level until tmac's body broke down in Houston.

They were never equals on a talent level.
Author:  RFDC [ Tue Jul 30, 2019 1:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Chris Paul or Allen Iverson?
Kobe and Tmac equals on talent?? :lol: :lol:

damn. This is turning into quite the thread
Author:  long time guy [ Tue Jul 30, 2019 1:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Chris Paul or Allen Iverson?
FavreFan wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
They were equals on a talent level until tmac's body broke down in Houston.

They were never equals on a talent level.


Oh yes they were. Before the injuries McGrady was an elite player and the All NBA selections verifies it.

When Kobe didn't have superior talent around him he never made the 2nd round of the playoffs either.

His teams actually performed about the same as McGrady's when he didn't have Hall of Fame players around him.
Author:  FavreFan [ Tue Jul 30, 2019 1:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Chris Paul or Allen Iverson?
long time guy wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
They were equals on a talent level until tmac's body broke down in Houston.

They were never equals on a talent level.


Oh yes they were. When Kobe didn't have superior talent around him he never made the 2nd round of the playoffs.

His teams actually performed about the same as McGrady's when he didn't have Hall of Fame players around him.

You comparing Kobe when his 2nd best teammate was Kwame Brown to TMac when his 2nd best player was Yao Ming?
Author:  RFDC [ Tue Jul 30, 2019 1:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Chris Paul or Allen Iverson?
long time guy wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
They were equals on a talent level until tmac's body broke down in Houston.

They were never equals on a talent level.


Oh yes they were. When Kobe didn't have superior talent around him he never made the 2nd round of the playoffs either.

His teams actually performed about the same as McGrady's when he didn't have Hall of Fame players around him.

The teams around them really has nothing to do with their individual talent comparison.
Author:  long time guy [ Tue Jul 30, 2019 2:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Chris Paul or Allen Iverson?
RFDC wrote:
long time guy wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
They were equals on a talent level until tmac's body broke down in Houston.

They were never equals on a talent level.


Oh yes they were. When Kobe didn't have superior talent around him he never made the 2nd round of the playoffs either.

His teams actually performed about the same as McGrady's when he didn't have Hall of Fame players around him.

The teams around them really has nothing to do with their individual talent comparison.


When guys constantly use the success of the team (Which FF used and you failed to challenge) then yes it does. He brought up lack of playoff success as a means of comparing the 2. Ok when Kobe didn't have Hall of Famers around him his teams didn't do jack either.
Author:  long time guy [ Tue Jul 30, 2019 2:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Chris Paul or Allen Iverson?
FavreFan wrote:
long time guy wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
They were equals on a talent level until tmac's body broke down in Houston.

They were never equals on a talent level.


Oh yes they were. When Kobe didn't have superior talent around him he never made the 2nd round of the playoffs.

His teams actually performed about the same as McGrady's when he didn't have Hall of Fame players around him.

You comparing Kobe when his 2nd best teammate was Kwame Brown to TMac when his 2nd best player was Yao Ming?


Lamar Odom and Ron Artest were in some of those mixes as i recall. TMAC in Houston had injuries. Either he or Yao. I actually wonder if they ever played in any playoff series together. If they did it couldn't have been more than 1.
Author:  RFDC [ Tue Jul 30, 2019 2:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Chris Paul or Allen Iverson?
I am talking about vegans post that seemed clear to me to be talking on an individual level.

Kobe was the more talented basketball player.
Author:  FavreFan [ Tue Jul 30, 2019 2:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Chris Paul or Allen Iverson?
long time guy wrote:
RFDC wrote:
long time guy wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
They were equals on a talent level until tmac's body broke down in Houston.

They were never equals on a talent level.


Oh yes they were. When Kobe didn't have superior talent around him he never made the 2nd round of the playoffs either.

His teams actually performed about the same as McGrady's when he didn't have Hall of Fame players around him.

The teams around them really has nothing to do with their individual talent comparison.


When guys constantly use the success of the team (Which FF used and you failed to challenge) then yes it does. He brought up lack of playoff success as a means of comparing the 2. Ok when Kobe didn't have Hall of Famers around him his teams didn't do jack either.

T-Mac had Yao Ming when he was at his best and didn't do jack shit with him. Kobe won titles when paired with other talent. That's because Kobe played defense and T-Mac couldn't guard half the posters on this board in his prime.
Author:  Nas [ Tue Jul 30, 2019 2:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Chris Paul or Allen Iverson?
Offensively Kobe and T-Mac were close. Naturally I would give a slight edge to Kobe. Defensively there was no comparison. Kobe was an all nba defender and McGrady was slightly better than Harden.
Author:  Nas [ Tue Jul 30, 2019 2:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Chris Paul or Allen Iverson?
Regular Reader wrote:
long time guy wrote:
Michael Adams was a better player then IT too.


Easily.

And I'd take Tiny Archibald and AI over Paul.


You're showing your age. I can't agree or disagree because all I've seen is highlights and heard people at least a decade my senior speak highly of him.
Author:  GoldenJet [ Tue Jul 30, 2019 2:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Chris Paul or Allen Iverson?
Kobe, as a complete player, is on another level from T-Mac. One is top 50 all time, one is not.
Author:  long time guy [ Tue Jul 30, 2019 2:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Chris Paul or Allen Iverson?
FavreFan wrote:
long time guy wrote:
RFDC wrote:
long time guy wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
They were equals on a talent level until tmac's body broke down in Houston.

They were never equals on a talent level.


Oh yes they were. When Kobe didn't have superior talent around him he never made the 2nd round of the playoffs either.

His teams actually performed about the same as McGrady's when he didn't have Hall of Fame players around him.

The teams around them really has nothing to do with their individual talent comparison.


When guys constantly use the success of the team (Which FF used and you failed to challenge) then yes it does. He brought up lack of playoff success as a means of comparing the 2. Ok when Kobe didn't have Hall of Famers around him his teams didn't do jack either.

T-Mac had Yao Ming when he was at his best and didn't do jack shit with him. Kobe won titles when paired with other talent. That's because Kobe played defense and T-Mac couldn't guard half the posters on this board in his prime.


"At his best" :lol: :lol: Revisionist history. A board staple.

Yao was hurt every season that he and McGrady played with the Rockets.

On the same roster for 3 years together and then Yao retired from the league
Author:  veganfan21 [ Tue Jul 30, 2019 2:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Chris Paul or Allen Iverson?
GoldenJet wrote:
Kobe, as a complete player, is on another level from T-Mac. One is top 50 all time, one is not.


:lol:
Author:  ZephMarshack [ Tue Jul 30, 2019 2:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Chris Paul or Allen Iverson?
I will say one thing for Kobe: he had a somewhat decent argument for being top 3 on the Lakers during his first 3 titles with the most dominant big man ever.

I do love the citations of his defense when over half of his all-defensive selections make Derek Jeter's Gold Gloves look legitimate.
Author:  long time guy [ Tue Jul 30, 2019 2:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Chris Paul or Allen Iverson?
ZephMarshack wrote:
I will say one thing for Kobe: he had a somewhat decent argument for being top 3 on the Lakers during his first 3 titles with the most dominant big man ever.

I do love the citations of his defense when over half of his all-defensive selections make Derek Jeter's Gold Gloves look legitimate.


Yeah Kobe was a willing defender. He was never a great defender
Author:  Nas [ Tue Jul 30, 2019 3:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Chris Paul or Allen Iverson?
long time guy wrote:
ZephMarshack wrote:
I will say one thing for Kobe: he had a somewhat decent argument for being top 3 on the Lakers during his first 3 titles with the most dominant big man ever.

I do love the citations of his defense when over half of his all-defensive selections make Derek Jeter's Gold Gloves look legitimate.


Yeah Kobe was a willing defender. He was never a great defender


I think young and prime Kobe was a willing/great defender. You may have his last 5 or so years stuck in your head.
Author:  Nas [ Tue Jul 30, 2019 3:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Chris Paul or Allen Iverson?
ZephMarshack wrote:
I will say one thing for Kobe: he had a somewhat decent argument for being top 3 on the Lakers during his first 3 titles with the most dominant big man ever.

I do love the citations of his defense when over half of his all-defensive selections make Derek Jeter's Gold Gloves look legitimate.


Yeah his last 2 or 3 were reputation.
Author:  W_Z [ Tue Jul 30, 2019 3:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Chris Paul or Allen Iverson?
iverson is more comparable to carmello anthony as a player than isiah thomas or chris paul. those are true point guards, whereas iverson was always a SG, even when he was (stupidly) put in as a PG. he didn't have the qualities of a PG.

he literally carried that '00 team to the finals, but he had a good defending PG in eric snow. and dikembe was good under the post until he was mauled by shaq in the finals.

as far as height, i'd give it to iverson as more of an impact player. you couldn't take your eyes off him when he was on the court; paul can be an invisible man sometimes.
Author:  veganfan21 [ Tue Jul 30, 2019 6:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Chris Paul or Allen Iverson?
long time guy wrote:
You could tell that is was not just another All Star game for those 2. Both had something to prove.


As WZ correctly pointed out below, AI was basically a SG.

AI had one run to the finals in a weak as hell East. That was when the giants of the East met their deaths: Chicago, Miami, NY, and Indiana. Into the void stepped a working man's basketball team with one star. They had to beat the broke as hell Milwaukee Bucks to get into the finals. That was one of the worst conferences of all time.

Other than that one fluke finals run, AI and Tmac have comparable team success.
Author:  veganfan21 [ Tue Jul 30, 2019 6:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Chris Paul or Allen Iverson?
RFDC wrote:
I am talking about vegans post that seemed clear to me to be talking on an individual level.

Kobe was the more talented basketball player.


Both were freakishly athletic wing players who were unstoppable. What was the difference on offense? Tmac may even had the slight edge athletically. Kobe was more polished/eventually developed better fundamentals. He was a student of the game. Tmac was casual in the very beginning - just raw talent in need of guidance. All that shit he did in Orlando he did without really knowing what he was doing. It was scary. At the same age Kobe bricked three pointers in LA during the playoffs because he thought he was better than prime Shaq.
Author:  long time guy [ Tue Jul 30, 2019 6:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Chris Paul or Allen Iverson?
veganfan21 wrote:
long time guy wrote:
You could tell that is was not just another All Star game for those 2. Both had something to prove.


As WZ correctly pointed out below, AI was basically a SG.

AI had one run to the finals in a weak as hell East. That was when the giants of the East met their deaths: Chicago, Miami, NY, and Indiana. Into the void stepped a working man's basketball team with one star. They had to beat the broke as hell Milwaukee Bucks to get into the finals. That was one of the worst conferences of all time.

Other than that one fluke finals run, AI and Tmac have comparable team success.


McGrady was more of a Small Forward than he was a shooting guard and this thread is about guys 6 feet and under.

Where does McGrady fit in?
Author:  long time guy [ Tue Jul 30, 2019 6:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Chris Paul or Allen Iverson?
veganfan21 wrote:
RFDC wrote:
I am talking about vegans post that seemed clear to me to be talking on an individual level.

Kobe was the more talented basketball player.


Both were freakishly athletic wing players who were unstoppable. What was the difference on offense? Tmac may even had the slight edge athletically. Kobe was more polished/eventually developed better fundamentals. He was a student of the game. Tmac was casual in the very beginning - just raw talent in need of guidance. All that shit he did in Orlando he did without really knowing what he was doing. It was scary. At the same age Kobe bricked three pointers in LA during the playoffs because he thought he was better than prime Shaq.


Shit up the thread time. Thanks for nothing. Let the record show that this is what this dude is trying to do.
Author:  veganfan21 [ Tue Jul 30, 2019 6:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Chris Paul or Allen Iverson?
FavreFan wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
They were equals on a talent level until tmac's body broke down in Houston.

They were never equals on a talent level.


Oh yes they were. 30+ PPG scorers who couldn't be stopped.
Author:  Walt Williams Neck [ Fri Aug 02, 2019 10:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Chris Paul or Allen Iverson?
easy Paul AI has been retired for years ,,,plus AI SG Paul a PG
Author:  The Missing Link [ Thu Jul 01, 2021 1:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Chris Paul or Allen Iverson?
Might be about time to bump this one as well.
Author:  RFDC [ Thu Jul 01, 2021 1:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Chris Paul or Allen Iverson?
:lol: Loved reading back over some of the terrible opinions.

Iverson is still the answer for me.
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