Is there any way I can delete this thread?

Turner has been really bad. He's got a chance to turn it around but so far the results look really bad.

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I missed this thread the first time around, but I'm on record with B&B thinking Turner will end up being a poor top ten pick, let alone the #2. He does nothing spectacular, no big leaping ability or shooting ability, no extra quickness etc. Not sure what people saw in him in college. I was very underwhelmed.

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Ба́бушка гада́ла, да на́двое сказа́ла—то ли до́ждик, то ли снег, то ли бу́дет, то ли нет.

someone check the tapes

You will be wrong if you think he will be a poor top ten pick. He's going to be at worst a solid starter in this league for a long time. He's had some good games and some games where he was worthless. It often takes players some time to adjust to the NBA game. I think at worst he'll be good for 15+ points a game and 6+ rebounds a game. He won't be a superstar with those numbers but they can hardly be classified as poor.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

That was more of a Jason Goff prediction.

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i project him more as a Sharone Wright type

He's a poor man's Stromile Swift.

(Can you be any poor-er?)

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and those are the guys who have contests to see who can fit the largest cucumber down their throat.

john wall sucks. thats all folks. to compare him to derrik rose is insulting to rose.

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the world will always the world. your entire existence is defined by your response.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Still laughing at this. Turner is in a much better situation though so it could end up being closer than I originally thought

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Listen to the river sing sweet songs
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For the first time since the season started last year I think I've got a shot here. It's more on Wall than Turner though but that was part of my original argument.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/wizards/before-the-wizards-john-wall-can-lead-he-needs-to-work-on-his-game/2012/01/05/gIQAmD6gdP_story.html

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Both players look like busts but I don't think Turner has much of a shot of ever being better than Wall. Wall will at least still be in the league 5 years from now most likely.

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Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Werent B and B or at least the older B in Mokena projecting Wall to be better than D. Rose.


What happened to this kid anyway?

Many people were. Coaching has made a big difference. Flip Saunders is an awful coach and I'm not sure Rose would've made the leap with VDN still coaching him.

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Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Turner may be star of turbulent draft class
11:28 PM, Jan. 7, 2012 | Comments


The Sixers have to be breathing a sigh of relief that in the 2010 draft they selected Evan Turner instead of DeMarcus Cousins, who was considered potentially the best player available.

It’s not that Turner has become a star or has the potential to become one. Or that Cousins won’t one day become a great player.
Turner, after all, doesn’t even start for the Sixers, who took him second overall.
Yet, in a draft class that is quickly making headlines for all the wrong reasons, Turner is proving that he can not only be a good NBA player but a good citizen as well.
Cousins, meanwhile, has gotten into arguments with coaches and teammates, leading to the firing of Sacramento Kings coach Paul Westphal on Thursday, and his attitude has been questioned on several occasions.
That dichotomy will be evident Tuesday, when the Kings play the Sixers at the Wells Fargo Center.
Turner could have pouted when he found out before the season that he would be coming off the bench, while Jodie Meeks started at shooting guard.
He didn’t.
“You don’t have any other choice,” Turner said of accepting his role. “It’s also easy on this team. We’re all comfortable with each other. Everyone is rooting for each other, no matter if you’re starting or coming off the bench.”
Turner had 21 points in the Sixers’ 101-93 win over New Orleans on Wednesday and played almost the entire fourth quarter.
For the season, he is averaging 10.0 points and 5.7 rebounds in 26.3 minutes, which are almost starter’s minutes. Turner is often on the court in the fourth quarter because he is a good perimeter defender, and he has found a way to fit in with Andre Iguodala and Jrue Holiday, which he struggled with last season.
Contrast that to the other top five picks in the draft, particularly Cousins, who went fifth.
The week started when Cousins and Westphal had an argument in his office Sunday, and the Kings issued a statement the next day saying Cousins was told to stay away from the team after demanding a trade.
Cousins denied making the trade request. He missed one game and came off the bench in two others.
(Page 2 of 2)
Four days later, Westphal was fired, replaced by assistant Keith Smart. Cousins responded for Smart with 19 points and 15 rebounds in the Kings’ win Thursday over Houston.
But how long will that last?
“It just wears on your team after awhile,” Sixers coach Doug Collins said, referring to teams with drama. “I don’t have to take a fire extinguisher and put out fires every day. That can take a toll on you.”
The rest of that top five isn’t much to brag about either.
John Wall, the top pick, is a turnover machine on an 0-7 Washington Wizards team. Derrick Favors, who went third, is already on his second team. He, too, is mainly a reserve, although he did have a big game as a starter against the Sixers, with a career-high 20 points and 11 rebounds.
Wesley Johnson, who went fourth to Minnesota, hasn’t made an impact.
Turner, meanwhile, went through a difficult first season where he was in and out of the rotation.
Now he has a regular role as a reserve. And who knows? Maybe one day he can become a dependable 15-20 points-per-game scorer.
Cousins has the potential to surpass that. He also has the potential to play for several teams, angering coaches and GMs at every stop, before they become exasperated and give up on him.

Coaching is probably part of it, but I think it is a mental thing. Rose is mentally tough and wants to be the best and works hard to be the best. I don't see that in Wall. Wall relies on his talent. Well now he is in a league with guys every bit as talented as he is.

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"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

I don't agree with pretty much any of that article. John Wall is clearly a much better player than Turner. If the 76ers could swap those two straight up they wouldn't hesitate to do so. I'm pretty sure I'd take Wesley Johnson, Favors, and Cousins over Turner also. Turner just isn't good, the others are still unknowns.

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Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Why? You often cite advanced statistics but you seem to want to ignore how bad Wall is using those. I agree that Wall is more talented but the league is filled with talented players who don't translate to wins. In fact, the Wizards had another one in Arenas.
Why can't Evan Turner get better too? We haven't even seen Turner get a chance at starting yet and being a featured guy and yet you already have closed the book on him?

This seems just like Turner's college career. He seems to be better year after year. Eventually, you look and he's the best guy on your team. That may not happen this year though.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Pargo has been an NBA player since 2002. Turner has been one since 2010. In 2020, if Turner isn't any good that would be a fair comparison.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

JBills vibe.

My whole point was that it's too early to close the book on Turner like FavreFan wants to do.

Turner may never get the chance, but it's too early to say that we already know what he is.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

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Hahahaha... You love me Brick... Its so fucking funny...

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That joke won't be nearly as funny when you are gone from the board starting on Saturday.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

I'm not sure why you think I cite advanced statistics all the time. I have before, but certainly not often.

Its possible than Turner improves a lot but it's highly unlikely. Have you seen him play or are you just looking at stats? Either way, I would think there's only one conclusion to come to. He can't beat out Jodie Meeks for a starting spot because he's not really good at anything. He's ok at a ton of stuff but he doesn't have an elite NBA skill like Wall does(his transition play). John Wall is playing for one of the worst coaches in the league and with one of the worst teams in the league both talent and attitude wise, and yet he is demonstrably much better than Turner has showed. He's a terrible shooter(which isn't the problem because Rose was a couple years ago and Rondo and Kidd have been, the problem is that he settles for jump shots too often, especially off the pick n roll where he should have a clear advantage to get into the lane.)

I understand why you want to hold out hope that Turner will be a better pro because of your prediction but it won't happen. Both players are clearly not living up to expectations but Wall has clearly showed potential to be great and even as bad as he's been so far his rookie numbers were still comparable to any rookie PG in history.

The reason the other guys I mentioned are still unknowns is the same reason everyone thought Turner would be much better out of the gate. He was supposedly NBA ready. But unlike the other guys he doesn't appear to have all-world athleticism or potential. He doesn't have an elite skill at this level and he actually does appear to have a good work ethic(based on interviews and hearsay), so it doesn't seem to be a lack of effort on his part. He just isn't very good.

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Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

You are one of the only people I've ever heard on here cite football outsiders.
Who thought Turner would be much better than Wall out of the gate? I certainly didn't. I don't see many posts in this thread saying that.

So FavreFan, you think this is the best Turner will ever be? I guess we'll bump this at the end of the year or next year and see if you were right that Turner is already at his ceiling.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

I meant better than he was, not better than Wall. That was poorly worded on my part.

I think Turner could improve slightly but I don't think he will have a big leap that we typically see from top picks over the course of their rookie contracts. I'm fairly confident he will never be an All Star and that his ceiling is a solid starter. His best chance to make a real impact is to focus as much on defense as possible because he does have All Defensive team potential if he works hard on that end but I just don't see anything from him that leads me to believe he will be better than Wall all around. If Wall was paired with Adelman or Carlisle I think this discussion would look very silly very quickly. But even if he never reaches his potential it would take an Arenas-esque fall from grace for Turner to end up as the better pro. Unlike Arenas though, Wall is a willing, gifted passer. That combined with his athleticism(Rose's level), and it's hard seeing him not getting better.

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Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

And I thought Football Outsiders was a fairly well known, respected football site. Is it not?

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Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

So do you think that Wall will be an All-Star and when will it happen? He seems very far away from that right now.

_________________
You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!