How can you accuse me of singling out a game when he's played three pro games and we are evaluating him?
Be serious.
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| Lamelo (& Lonzo) Ball Basketball, Family, and Friends Thread http://chicagofanatics.com/viewtopic.php?f=91&t=109091 |
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| Author: | FavreFan [ Sat Oct 21, 2017 11:26 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Lonzo: Year 1 |
Jury's still out on Lonzo. I think he'll be good but he still only has 3 points when someone guards him. |
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| Author: | veganfan21 [ Sat Oct 21, 2017 11:27 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Lonzo: Year 1 |
shakes wrote: hey douchebags, this is a LONZO THREAD. Take your talk of inferior players to a different thread. He'll never be as good as Westbrook. He'll be more valuable than Irving though. |
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| Author: | FavreFan [ Sat Oct 21, 2017 11:29 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Lonzo: Year 1 |
Poor vegan. He's so triggered by Kyrie he's become incapable of evaluating any players any other way except comparing them to him. |
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| Author: | veganfan21 [ Sat Oct 21, 2017 11:33 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Lonzo: Year 1 |
I don't get the hype though. I mean it seems like he could turn into a decent point forward but there's nothing to suggest he'd be some sort of transcendent talent, or at least the type of talent to justify all this hype. Maybe the hype is just due to his father being a genius marketer and guys here are buying into it. |
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| Author: | long time guy [ Sat Oct 21, 2017 11:49 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Lonzo: Year 1 |
shakes wrote: long time guy wrote: shakes wrote: long time guy wrote: shakes wrote: Youngest player since Lebron in 2005 to put up stats like that. 2 games in Lonzo has set the bar for best game by a rookie this year. let's see how long before someone tops it, or if that even happens. I imagine it will be him and Simmons battling it out all year at the top of class. They're the only two guys who can fill a stat sheet like that. Shame his team sucks so much or else he would've had an easy triple double. Both Lopez and Ingram missed wide open jumpers in final minute that would've given Lonzo an apple. The reason that he will put up numbers is because his team sucks so bad. Stats aren't the only barometer either. MCW had a helluva game one when he was a rookie too. Ball is in the best situation to put up numbers and Phoenix plays no defense. They were dying on that high screen roll all night. I will check him out tomorrow and see what's up. Narrative before last night: Lonzo can't play in the NBA Narrative after last night: Lonzo can only play against certain teams in the NBA Looking forward to seeing the narrative change throughout the season. You stated that he'd be a stud. There has been nothing to demonstrate that and you find alternative ways to assess him whenever he has a bad game. If he doesn't do shit offensively it becomes about the 5 rebounds that he grabbed. If not that it was the 7 assists. His man dropped 28 on him last night while playing fewer minutes. Ball also had the worst plus minus of any of the other starters too. I don't generally care about that stat but it should be noted if we are going to discuss his teammates. 29/9/11. Youngest player to ever put up that statline. Alternative way to assess whenever he had a bad game? LOL, you mean like quoting +/- single game stats? No, you're the only person here looking for alternative ways to assess. BTW, Kuzma had an awful +/- in that game as well. He went 6/7 from the field, did he have a bad game too? Kuzma didn't start. Ball had a good game. If you are looking for stats let's do it then. After Two games he is shooting about 35% from the field. Avg 15 points per game also. He scored 29 points on 27 shots yesterday and has 32 points on 33 shots in 2 games. He is getting torched on defense also. He has assisted and rebounded well. You keep comparing him to guys that play on MUCH better teams also. Of the top rookies in the league he is in by far the best situation for putting up numbers. It doesn't mean that he is necessarily better though. |
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| Author: | long time guy [ Sat Oct 21, 2017 11:53 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Lonzo: Year 1 |
One of the best articles that I've read on Ball. https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/lonz ... mitations/ |
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| Author: | FavreFan [ Sat Oct 21, 2017 12:14 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Lonzo: Year 1 |
long time guy wrote: One of the best articles that I've read on Ball. https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/lonz ... mitations/ And it just happens to support your side of the argument. What a coincidence! |
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| Author: | long time guy [ Sat Oct 21, 2017 12:19 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Lonzo: Year 1 |
FavreFan wrote: long time guy wrote: One of the best articles that I've read on Ball. https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/lonz ... mitations/ And it just happens to support your side of the argument. What a coincidence! You didn't expect my source to be an ESPN writer did you? They sold their collective souls a while ago when it comes to ball. |
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| Author: | veganfan21 [ Sat Oct 21, 2017 12:27 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Lonzo: Year 1 |
long time guy wrote: FavreFan wrote: long time guy wrote: One of the best articles that I've read on Ball. https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/lonz ... mitations/ And it just happens to support your side of the argument. What a coincidence! You didn't expect my source to be an ESPN writer did you? They sold their collective souls a while ago when it comes to ball. long time guy wrote: http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/20177155/kyrie-irving-trade-talks-show-how-much-teams-including-cleveland-cavaliers-value-him
Very insightful article by Woj. |
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| Author: | long time guy [ Sat Oct 21, 2017 12:33 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Lonzo: Year 1 |
veganfan21 wrote: long time guy wrote: FavreFan wrote: long time guy wrote: One of the best articles that I've read on Ball. https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/lonz ... mitations/ And it just happens to support your side of the argument. What a coincidence! You didn't expect my source to be an ESPN writer did you? They sold their collective souls a while ago when it comes to ball. long time guy wrote: http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/20177155/kyrie-irving-trade-talks-show-how-much-teams-including-cleveland-cavaliers-value-him Very insightful article by Woj. You may not have noticed but I specifically referenced Ball. They are extremely invested in hyping him. |
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| Author: | Jbi11s [ Mon Oct 23, 2017 1:31 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Lonzo: Year 1 |
8,13,8 vs. Pelicans Shot 3-13 from the field. 0-5 from 3. |
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| Author: | long time guy [ Mon Oct 23, 2017 4:35 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Lonzo: Year 1 |
Jbi11s wrote: 8,13,8 vs. Pelicans Shot 3-13 from the field. 0-5 from 3. also had 5 turnovers and the team played much better when he wasn't in the game. His +/- has been worse than any of the Lakers starters in each of the first 3 games. That includes his breakout game against the Suns from the other day. |
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| Author: | Nas [ Mon Oct 23, 2017 7:41 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Lonzo: Year 1 |
He's almost averaging a triple double and he's awful offensively. What happens when he improves offensively? |
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| Author: | long time guy [ Mon Oct 23, 2017 7:44 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Lonzo: Year 1 |
Nas wrote: He's almost averaging a triple double and he's awful offensively. What happens when he improves offensively? He might not improve that much either offensively or defensively. Triple doubles can be overrated too. You can have one and still play terribly. |
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| Author: | Nas [ Mon Oct 23, 2017 8:07 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Lonzo: Year 1 |
long time guy wrote: Nas wrote: He's almost averaging a triple double and he's awful offensively. What happens when he improves offensively? He might not improve that much either offensively or defensively. Triple doubles can be overrated too. You can have one and still play terribly. He's already one of the best rebounding PG in the league. His passing ability will likely be elite. He has nowhere to go but up when it comes to scoring. He isn't going to be a 30% shooter for his career. |
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| Author: | FavreFan [ Mon Oct 23, 2017 8:12 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Lonzo: Year 1 |
Nas wrote: long time guy wrote: Nas wrote: He's almost averaging a triple double and he's awful offensively. What happens when he improves offensively? He might not improve that much either offensively or defensively. Triple doubles can be overrated too. You can have one and still play terribly. He's already one of the best rebounding PG in the league. His passing ability will likely be elite. He has nowhere to go but up when it comes to scoring. He isn't going to be a 30% shooter for his career. He struggled heavily against the only good defensive PG he faced(and the Clippers have no other good defensive guards). He put up his numbers against a team that's somehow a bigger joke than the Bulls a team with no backcourt at all. The Lakers also run almost every possession through him even in comparison to other PGs. It's fair to say his stats are prettt inflated right now. I think he's already good and I think he's going to be really good, but triple double stats are not a reliable indicator of how good a player is. |
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| Author: | Nas [ Mon Oct 23, 2017 8:43 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Lonzo: Year 1 |
FavreFan wrote: Nas wrote: long time guy wrote: Nas wrote: He's almost averaging a triple double and he's awful offensively. What happens when he improves offensively? He might not improve that much either offensively or defensively. Triple doubles can be overrated too. You can have one and still play terribly. He's already one of the best rebounding PG in the league. His passing ability will likely be elite. He has nowhere to go but up when it comes to scoring. He isn't going to be a 30% shooter for his career. He struggled heavily against the only good defensive PG he faced(and the Clippers have no other good defensive guards). He put up his numbers against a team that's somehow a bigger joke than the Bulls a team with no backcourt at all. The Lakers also run almost every possession through him even in comparison to other PGs. It's fair to say his stats are prettt inflated right now. I think he's already good and I think he's going to be really good, but triple double stats are not a reliable indicator of how good a player is. There are only like 5 good defensive PGs in the NBA. |
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| Author: | FavreFan [ Mon Oct 23, 2017 8:46 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Lonzo: Year 1 |
Nas wrote: FavreFan wrote: Nas wrote: long time guy wrote: Nas wrote: He's almost averaging a triple double and he's awful offensively. What happens when he improves offensively? He might not improve that much either offensively or defensively. Triple doubles can be overrated too. You can have one and still play terribly. He's already one of the best rebounding PG in the league. His passing ability will likely be elite. He has nowhere to go but up when it comes to scoring. He isn't going to be a 30% shooter for his career. He struggled heavily against the only good defensive PG he faced(and the Clippers have no other good defensive guards). He put up his numbers against a team that's somehow a bigger joke than the Bulls a team with no backcourt at all. The Lakers also run almost every possession through him even in comparison to other PGs. It's fair to say his stats are prettt inflated right now. I think he's already good and I think he's going to be really good, but triple double stats are not a reliable indicator of how good a player is. There are only like 5 good defensive PGs in the NBA. That's not true. |
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| Author: | Nas [ Mon Oct 23, 2017 8:49 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Lonzo: Year 1 |
It is. Most of those guys don't care about defense. |
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| Author: | FavreFan [ Mon Oct 23, 2017 8:50 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Lonzo: Year 1 |
Nas wrote: It is. Most of those guys don't care about defense. That's not true. There are actually very few PGs who simply don't try on defense. Even Steph Curry is decent. |
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| Author: | veganfan21 [ Mon Oct 23, 2017 9:10 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Lonzo: Year 1 |
FavreFan wrote: Nas wrote: long time guy wrote: Nas wrote: He's almost averaging a triple double and he's awful offensively. What happens when he improves offensively? He might not improve that much either offensively or defensively. Triple doubles can be overrated too. You can have one and still play terribly. He's already one of the best rebounding PG in the league. His passing ability will likely be elite. He has nowhere to go but up when it comes to scoring. He isn't going to be a 30% shooter for his career. He struggled heavily against the only good defensive PG he faced(and the Clippers have no other good defensive guards). He put up his numbers against a team that's somehow a bigger joke than the Bulls a team with no backcourt at all. The Lakers also run almost every possession through him even in comparison to other PGs. It's fair to say his stats are prettt inflated right now. I think he's already good and I think he's going to be really good, but triple double stats are not a reliable indicator of how good a player is. Why so harsh. You're being very unfair. Very unfair. He's basically an infant in NBA years and you're already holding his game against Beverly against him. 19 year olds or whatever he is are going to get clowned during their rookie year. No shame in it. All part of the growth process. |
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| Author: | FavreFan [ Mon Oct 23, 2017 9:17 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Lonzo: Year 1 |
veganfan21 wrote: FavreFan wrote: Nas wrote: long time guy wrote: Nas wrote: He's almost averaging a triple double and he's awful offensively. What happens when he improves offensively? He might not improve that much either offensively or defensively. Triple doubles can be overrated too. You can have one and still play terribly. He's already one of the best rebounding PG in the league. His passing ability will likely be elite. He has nowhere to go but up when it comes to scoring. He isn't going to be a 30% shooter for his career. He struggled heavily against the only good defensive PG he faced(and the Clippers have no other good defensive guards). He put up his numbers against a team that's somehow a bigger joke than the Bulls a team with no backcourt at all. The Lakers also run almost every possession through him even in comparison to other PGs. It's fair to say his stats are prettt inflated right now. I think he's already good and I think he's going to be really good, but triple double stats are not a reliable indicator of how good a player is. Why so harsh. You're being very unfair. Very unfair. He's basically an infant in NBA years and you're already holding his game against Beverly against him. 19 year olds or whatever he is are going to get clowned during their rookie year. No shame in it. All part of the growth process. I don't understand this response. Did you just entirely ignore the part where I said I think he is ALREADY good and might be very good? |
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| Author: | long time guy [ Mon Oct 23, 2017 9:23 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Lonzo: Year 1 |
Nas wrote: long time guy wrote: Nas wrote: He's almost averaging a triple double and he's awful offensively. What happens when he improves offensively? He might not improve that much either offensively or defensively. Triple doubles can be overrated too. You can have one and still play terribly. He's already one of the best rebounding PG in the league. His passing ability will likely be elite. He has nowhere to go but up when it comes to scoring. He isn't going to be a 30% shooter for his career. There are certain things that are difficult to correct. He doesn't finish particularly well. He doesn't shoot well. Its magnified when defenders are in his grill. He isn't going to get particularly quicker off the bounce. He is adept at running fast breaks but in half court sets he is extremely ordinary. |
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| Author: | veganfan21 [ Mon Oct 23, 2017 9:24 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Lonzo: Year 1 |
FavreFan wrote: veganfan21 wrote: FavreFan wrote: Nas wrote: long time guy wrote: Nas wrote: He's almost averaging a triple double and he's awful offensively. What happens when he improves offensively? He might not improve that much either offensively or defensively. Triple doubles can be overrated too. You can have one and still play terribly. He's already one of the best rebounding PG in the league. His passing ability will likely be elite. He has nowhere to go but up when it comes to scoring. He isn't going to be a 30% shooter for his career. He struggled heavily against the only good defensive PG he faced(and the Clippers have no other good defensive guards). He put up his numbers against a team that's somehow a bigger joke than the Bulls a team with no backcourt at all. The Lakers also run almost every possession through him even in comparison to other PGs. It's fair to say his stats are prettt inflated right now. I think he's already good and I think he's going to be really good, but triple double stats are not a reliable indicator of how good a player is. Why so harsh. You're being very unfair. Very unfair. He's basically an infant in NBA years and you're already holding his game against Beverly against him. 19 year olds or whatever he is are going to get clowned during their rookie year. No shame in it. All part of the growth process. I don't understand this response. Did you just entirely ignore the part where I said I think he is ALREADY good and might be very good? Yes, it was just odd to single out the Beverly game. Who cares? It was his very first game in the NBA. If anything Beverly should be slapped around for boasting about shutting down a 19 year old in his first pro game. |
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| Author: | FavreFan [ Mon Oct 23, 2017 9:25 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Lonzo: Year 1 |
long time guy wrote: Nas wrote: long time guy wrote: Nas wrote: He's almost averaging a triple double and he's awful offensively. What happens when he improves offensively? He might not improve that much either offensively or defensively. Triple doubles can be overrated too. You can have one and still play terribly. He's already one of the best rebounding PG in the league. His passing ability will likely be elite. He has nowhere to go but up when it comes to scoring. He isn't going to be a 30% shooter for his career. There are certain things that are difficult to correct. He doesn't finish particularly well. He doesn't shoot well. Its magnified when defenders are in his grill. He isn't going to get particularly quicker off the bounce. He is adept at running fast breaks but in half court sets he is extremely ordinary. I think Lonzo was a good shooter in college but regardless, shooting is something that most players improve upon and some fairly quickly. |
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| Author: | FavreFan [ Mon Oct 23, 2017 9:26 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Lonzo: Year 1 |
How can you accuse me of singling out a game when he's played three pro games and we are evaluating him? Be serious.
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| Author: | long time guy [ Mon Oct 23, 2017 9:27 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Lonzo: Year 1 |
Nas wrote: It is. Most of those guys don't care about defense. There are different degrees to being bad at defense. Ball is atrocious at it. |
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| Author: | veganfan21 [ Mon Oct 23, 2017 9:28 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Lonzo: Year 1 |
FavreFan wrote: How can you accuse me of singling out a game when he's played three pro games and we are evaluating him? Be serious.Too early to evaluate. He's not even done growing yet physically speaking. |
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| Author: | long time guy [ Mon Oct 23, 2017 9:32 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Lonzo: Year 1 |
FavreFan wrote: long time guy wrote: Nas wrote: long time guy wrote: Nas wrote: He's almost averaging a triple double and he's awful offensively. What happens when he improves offensively? He might not improve that much either offensively or defensively. Triple doubles can be overrated too. You can have one and still play terribly. He's already one of the best rebounding PG in the league. His passing ability will likely be elite. He has nowhere to go but up when it comes to scoring. He isn't going to be a 30% shooter for his career. There are certain things that are difficult to correct. He doesn't finish particularly well. He doesn't shoot well. Its magnified when defenders are in his grill. He isn't going to get particularly quicker off the bounce. He is adept at running fast breaks but in half court sets he is extremely ordinary. I think Lonzo was a good shooter in college but regardless, shooting is something that most players improve upon and some fairly quickly. Its going to always be difficult for him to get that shot off. It doesn't matter if guys are on him or they're closing out. I wonder if he will be effective with that release and form. Speed of the NBA game is a lot different than college and I'm sure he was playing against a lot of zone defenses in college. |
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| Author: | FavreFan [ Mon Oct 23, 2017 9:36 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Lonzo: Year 1 |
veganfan21 wrote: FavreFan wrote: How can you accuse me of singling out a game when he's played three pro games and we are evaluating him? Be serious.Too early to evaluate. He's not even done growing yet physically speaking. This is an odd take. I guess you can tell the mods to delete the thread but I'd suggest just finding something else you do have an opinion on then. |
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