Huh, DT?

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"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

So Irving is as good as Steph, but the stats don't show it, and never will show it, but everyone should just accept it as true, even though all the quantifiable evidence suggests it is not true. Ok. Good talk.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Once again "skill set". In order to do that you first have to be able to break down a guy's game I know it's difficult when every debate begins and ends with a data report.

It's that same sort of data report which led you to think that OKC had no chance against G.S., or S.A. for that matter. You saw an 18 win difference and immediately dismissed the prospect. That alone demonstrates that you are not really a good judge of talent or ability. Good talk indeed.

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idk, James wants to be Magic Johnson with the triple doubles, i mean in that Raptors game they lost didn't he take like 1 FG in the last 5 minutes ?

and Curry plays with Klay....and you know, like 8 million other people who shoot 3's all day but his stats aren't suppressed

You have fallen the Magic Johnson myth? Going into this season Lebron's avg shots per game was higher than Kobe Bryant's. For his career

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Irving had more FG attempts than James in every single game of the Raptors series but 1, in which they both had the same amount. Including his 3-19 game

Irving and Love are yooge liabilities on the defensive end--relatively speaking. Kevin Love has even said he doesn't close out on perimeter shooters b/c he's thinking and moving to grab rebounds.

Irving would've been more of a liability against Westbrook--or Westbrook's game would've taken more advantage of Kyrie's lackadaisical approach to defense.

last year CAVS did not have Love's offense. this year they have Love/James/Smith to provide most of the offense. if Curry starts going off on Irving/whomever the Cavs run at him from the starters, we'll probably see more of this this series than we'd like to:

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=w ... FcSC1JynQw


http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=w ... 4yAikkYaIA


Look at their career numbers. Irving averages more points per game at similar stages of their career. For all we know this year may be an outlier for Curry.

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The stats actually do show after 5 yrs. Irving has him beat.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=w ... FcSC1JynQw


http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=w ... 4yAikkYaIA

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So ltg, is Irving going to dominate Curry this series?

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

yeah and Curry for his career is shooting a better overall %, and a FAR better 3PT % overall
yea, an outlier

If they match up I have him to definitely outplay him.

Something tells me they will put Thompson on Irving but if they put Curry on Irving and vice versa Irving on Curry (which I expect) then Irving will get the better of the matchup. They have to guard each other. If there is cross matching then all bets are off.

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All I know is that I want LTG to be proven right in this argument.

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Got this one covered.

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I said they had the better shot. I'll stand by that. They got beat so I was wrong.

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Ба́бушка гада́ла, да на́двое сказа́ла—то ли до́ждик, то ли снег, то ли бу́дет, то ли нет.

I've grown tired of the Warriors. But Westbrook and Durant had their chance, so I'm rooting for the Warriors to beat the Cavs. I can certainly root for LeBron to lose.

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God is the uncaused cause of the universe. He had no beginning and has no end. He is not bound by the laws of the universe he created.

NBA.com stats / tracking area tracks scoring on drives. you have to fiddle with their filters to get regular season numbers and filter out
the guys playing 1 minute a game but scoring on their 1 drive per game etc.

re: Kyrie Irving's offensive number +/- being negatively impacted by being the 3rd or 4th scoring option any time he's on the floor:


yeah, Kyrie's taking shots, but when in the shot clock and what quality of shots?
I was thinking that if you're playing with Lebron/ Love / JR Smith, 9 times out of 10 down the floor, the play
is run for one of those 3. so that if/when you [Kyrie Irving] as the 4th option on offense do take a shot--it probably wasn't
by design, and probably was with the clock running down coming out of a busted play called for one of the other 3.

what do Love/SMith do when LeBron kicks out to them on a drive and the defense gets to them before they can get a shot up? Kick it back out to your point guard. Who now has to
improvise a play with the clock running down.


Westbrook/Curry are either 1 or 2 option when on the floor. Yeah, Curry has to shoot with the clock running down on a busted play [and he's fucking great at it]. but Curry's also getting the majority of
offensive sets called by the Warriors run for him to get a shot.

Draymond getting an expanded role as a passer under Kerr seems to have helped Curry and Thompson excel to insane shooting heights under Kerr. Iguodala's also decent at dishing out assists.

You think they run more plays for JR than Kyrie?

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

try again. No one said that. I said they run the majority of plays--vast majority, for Lebron/Love/JR. and JR and Love are there for LeBron to pass to off of his drives. so any play for Lebron...can end up being a play for Love / Smith--and that's by design. it's why LeBron like playing with Mike Miller and Ray Allen in Miami. And why he wanted guys like Love and Smith on the court with him in Cleveland, Part II Electric Dellavedova; Kyrie's job becomes to be the chas of the team--garbage collector.

You just said it again.

If 9 out of 10 plays they run are designed for Bron/Love/JR, how does that leave room for them to run more plays for Kyrie than JR?

But this is all nonsense anyway. They use Kyrie a lot. He's very good.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

i didn't say 9 out of 10 the 2nd time, i made it asshole proof by saying "majority of plays"

This shouldn't be a beef between us anyway. I think you and long time guy should talk and figure out if Kyrie is better than Steph Curry or if he's if the 4th best offensive player on the Cavs, and then all three of us can figure out where he's actually at.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

what? you think the guy who says repeatedly that there's no need for conversation about Steph Curry being the greatest shooter ever and who posted stats noting that Steph Curry's a more efficient scorer on his drives to the basket than Irving thinks Irving's a better offensive player than Curry? You on drugs?

If so, can I have some?

Just pointing out that while all shot attempts might be equal on the stat sheet, not all shot attempts are of equal kowality during the game.


and naturally instead of addressing the main point--all shots are equal, but some shots are more equal than others--you're admitting defeat by seizing on a common cliched expression of approximate statification and holding it up as the crux of the discussion. weak, like ukraine.

Of course I'm on drugs. You new here? I was just fucking with you anyway.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

It will become apparent who has the more complete offensive skill set. Once you see the number of screens that they have to run for Curry as opposed to what Cleveland does for Irving it will become obvious. There is no way that Curry has the off the dribble game that Irving has. Irving isn't exactly chopped liver as a 3 point shooter either. He has shot about 38-39 % for his career. Off the bounce he is simply much better than Curry. For their career there is a 2% difference in their shooting percentage also. Watch the number of down screens and stagger doubles that G.S will run for Curry during the course of this series. He can score off the dribble but he typically won't wear a team out with that. He needs picks and a lot of them. If not picks then run outs where he is wide open.



He also isn't a 4th option on Cleveland's team. He is their best offensive player to be honest. Irving consistently breaks guys down off the dribble and if G.S tries to guard him with Curry for much of this series he is going to murder him.

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how convenient of you to point out their career FG% is close, but miss pointing out that Curry's 3PT shooting is drastically better (.444 vs. 378) and with the volume of 3's he's taking (3590 vs. 1446 for Irving) for him to STILL be better with overall FG% is big
And did you seriously just say that Curry doesn't have an off the dribble game ? He breaks people down all the time

He is not in Irving's class as an off the drbible player. He needs a lot of picks. Irving doesn't. Curry has an off the dribble game but he is not as good as Irving. Just like Irving can shoot but he isn't in Curry's class as a shooter. If they guard each other, Irving will get the better of the matchup.

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as I had time to think about this it will go 7 and we will see who is the better coach James or Kerr

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I'm going to bounce from the spot for awhile but I will be back at some point to argue with you about this hoops stuff again. Playoffs have been great this season. See ya up the road.

I'm out.