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PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2017 4:27 pm 
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veganfan21 wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
JJ Barea was the second scoring option most nights iirc.

Celtics was 2010. That was probably the series that LeBron finally decided he didn't want to actually have to compete too hard for a title.


I think you're still sour from the Spurs' embarrassing performance against the Heat in 2013 or whenever it was. Probably the worst choke job ever, even more than the Falcons' choke job.

Point is, LBJ has the league on lock down for at least seven years now. In the modern era, don't know if we've seen anything like it. He's more successful than both Kobe and Shaq after they broke up with one another, and he's still got about three more years to add to his legacy.

You gotta try harder at trolling. It was obvious even you didn't believe that first paragraph, and the Spurs got one of the more memorable revenges any team ever has the next season.

He's had the league on lock? That's an odd way to describe a guy who loses in the Finals more often than not.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2017 5:36 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
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JJ Barea was the second scoring option most nights iirc.

Celtics was 2010. That was probably the series that LeBron finally decided he didn't want to actually have to compete too hard for a title.


I think you're still sour from the Spurs' embarrassing performance against the Heat in 2013 or whenever it was. Probably the worst choke job ever, even more than the Falcons' choke job.

Point is, LBJ has the league on lock down for at least seven years now. In the modern era, don't know if we've seen anything like it. He's more successful than both Kobe and Shaq after they broke up with one another, and he's still got about three more years to add to his legacy.

You gotta try harder at trolling. It was obvious even you didn't believe that first paragraph, and the Spurs got one of the more memorable revenges any team ever has the next season.

He's had the league on lock? That's an odd way to describe a guy who loses in the Finals more often than not.


It was definitely a choke job though. Hit your free throws and then you don't have to worry about failing to corral a rebound. The choke job cost that franchise a ring.

So he's 3-4 in the Finals, yeah, but I look at it this way: since he turned about 25 years old in 2010, you've either beaten or lost to LBJ in the Finals as a matter of history. He's a mainstay - the common denominator in the past six (and likely seven after this year) finals matchups. Pretty damn impressive.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2017 5:44 pm 
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It's impressive. Just doesn't really compare to 6-0 in the Finals.

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PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2017 8:05 am 
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Here’s what the world was like the last time LeBron wasn’t playing in the Finals

JEREMY WOO
Friday May 26th, 2017

It’s been a really long time since LeBron James wasn’t playing in the Finals.

It was 2010, and we were all so young, and LeBron had just flamed out against the Celtics in the conference semifinals. Boston met Los Angeles in the the 2010 Finals, which began June 3 of that year.

Here’s a slice of what life was like on that day, nearly seven years ago.

• Barack Obama was the president, and democrats controlled both houses of congress.

• Donald Trump was about to start his final season of The Apprentice.

• The Burj Khalifa, the tallest man-made structure in the world, had recently opened.

• Less than 24 hours prior to the start of the Finals, Armando Galarraga of the Detroit Tigers had lost his perfect game on an incorrect call on the last play of the ninth inning.

• The Chicago Blackhawks were less than a week from winning the first of their trio of Stanley Cups.

• The Deepwater Horizon drilling platform exploded in the Gulf of Mexico not two months earlier.

• Spain was about to win its first World Cup. Italy was the defending champion.

• Selena Gomez and Justin Bieber had recently met for the first time. Gomez called Bieber her “little brother.”

• Brett Favre was still playing football, and had started every game he played in over the past 19 seasons.

• Ken Griffey Jr. had just retired from baseball on June 2.

• John Wall wasn’t in the NBA yet.

• Reggie Bush had not yet forfeited his Heisman Trophy.

• Derrick Rose was healthy.

• “OMG” by Usher and will.i.am. was the No. 1 song on the Billboard Hot 100. (Oh oh oh oh, oh oh oh oh oh, oh oh oh oh oh, oh oh)

• George Steinbrenner was still alive.

• UConn women had just completed their second consecutive 39–0 season.

• Shrek: Forever After was the No. 1 movie in America.

• I had not yet applied to college.

• LeBron hadn’t left the Cavaliers yet.


https://www.si.com/extra-mustard/2017/0 ... snt-finals

I'd add the following:

Obama was only starting his second year as president

Hillary Clinton was secretary of state (and presumably her infamous private email server was just set up and running at the time)

McNeil and Spiegs were just a year into their partnership

Vinny Del Negro was still coaching the Bulls

Rose has just made his first all star team

Tyrus Thomas, Brad Miller, and John Salmons were playing for the Bulls

Milton Bradley, Soriano, Aramis Ramirez, and Derrek Lee were playing for the Cubs

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PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2017 8:19 am 
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Of course it's a huge deal. Anyone who tries to act like making the Finals this many times is no big deal is retarded.

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PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2017 8:26 am 
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So he's at 14 seasons now, eight of which he's made the finals as the franchise player of the team. So for more than half of his career to date he's played in the finals. Not a great record of course (3-4-?) but still dominant.

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PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2017 8:28 am 
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veganfan21 wrote:
So he's at 14 seasons now, eight of which he's made the finals as the franchise player of the team. So for more than half of his career to date he's played in the finals. Not a great record of course (3-4-?) but still dominant.


The Finals record is a dumb argument because if he hadn't made the Finals every year, his record would be better. It's basically penalizing him for making the Finals every year.

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PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2017 8:33 am 
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Making the Finals in a weak conf with teams that were supposed to make the Finals isn't that big a deal. The teams that he lapped to get here have been pretty shitty. If he'd accomplished it in the West it would be a much bigger deal.

Before Vegan pulls a WYC I think the East is closing the gap but it's really due to the faltering of the West. The West looks pretty shitty these days too.

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PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2017 8:35 am 
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long time guy wrote:
Making the Finals in a weak conf with teams that were supposed to make the Finals isn't that big a deal. The teams that he lapped to get here have been pretty shitty. If he'd accomplished it in the West it would be a much bigger deal.

Before Vegan pulls a WYC I think the East is closing the gap but it's really due to the faltering of the West. The West looks pretty shitty these days too.


Just a random question LTG, and I'm not trying to argue anything, where do you think next year's T'Wolves would finish in the east with the same healthy roaster?

I honestly think they should be playing in the east anyway.

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PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2017 8:36 am 
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Ben Zobrist on two last WS champs and getting MVP in the last one mean anything?

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PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2017 8:37 am 
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Jbi11s wrote:
long time guy wrote:
Making the Finals in a weak conf with teams that were supposed to make the Finals isn't that big a deal. The teams that he lapped to get here have been pretty shitty. If he'd accomplished it in the West it would be a much bigger deal.

Before Vegan pulls a WYC I think the East is closing the gap but it's really due to the faltering of the West. The West looks pretty shitty these days too.


Just a random question LTG, and I'm not trying to argue anything, where do you think next year's T'Wolves would finish in the east with the same healthy roaster?

I honestly think they should be playing in the east anyway.


Image

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PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2017 8:38 am 
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jimmypasta wrote:
Jbi11s wrote:
long time guy wrote:
Making the Finals in a weak conf with teams that were supposed to make the Finals isn't that big a deal. The teams that he lapped to get here have been pretty shitty. If he'd accomplished it in the West it would be a much bigger deal.

Before Vegan pulls a WYC I think the East is closing the gap but it's really due to the faltering of the West. The West looks pretty shitty these days too.


Just a random question LTG, and I'm not trying to argue anything, where do you think next year's T'Wolves would finish in the east with the same healthy roaster?

I honestly think they should be playing in the east anyway.


Image

:lol:

Good one Jimmy.

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PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2017 8:39 am 
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long time guy wrote:
Making the Finals in a weak conf with teams that were supposed to make the Finals isn't that big a deal. The teams that he lapped to get here have been pretty shitty. If he'd accomplished it in the West it would be a much bigger deal.

Before Vegan pulls a WYC I think the East is closing the gap but it's really due to the faltering of the West. The West looks pretty shitty these days too.


The only reason he was "supposed" to make the Finals is because he was on the team.

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PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2017 8:43 am 
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Vegan wants so badly to just come out and say LeBron is better than Jordan but he won't :lol:

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PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2017 8:44 am 
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FavreFan wrote:
Vegan wants so badly to just come out and say LeBron is better than Jordan but he won't :lol:


All this talk and yet I guess Kareem Abdul Jabbar never existed.

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PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2017 8:49 am 
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jimmypasta wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
Vegan wants so badly to just come out and say LeBron is better than Jordan but he won't :lol:


All this talk and yet I guess Kareem Abdul Jabbar never existed.

If you believe Kareem is the GOAT more power to you. I know a guy who thinks Shaq is. We all have our opinions.

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PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2017 9:03 am 
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FavreFan wrote:
jimmypasta wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
Vegan wants so badly to just come out and say LeBron is better than Jordan but he won't :lol:


All this talk and yet I guess Kareem Abdul Jabbar never existed.

If you believe Kareem is the GOAT more power to you. I know a guy who thinks Shaq is. We all have our opinions.


Nah, six rings is six, and he has the killer instinct that LBJ doesn't. I'm just trying to figure out LBJ's legacy here. I agree with LYK in that I don't think LBJ should be criticized for the 500ish record in the finals, but that he didn't win more means I can't place him above someone like MJ (or at least that's what I think).

I don't agree with LTG on reducing the impressiveness of LBJ's sevens straight appearances because of the lack of competition in the east. That the east has been terrible is true, but you can only play the teams on your schedule. But it's also true that LBJ had a direct role in reducing the quality of the east by joining forces with Wade and Bosh. I guess back in the '70s and '80s things might have been more competitive because talent wasn't distributed among so many teams. But that also means you might have benefited back then because there's a higher chance of having a strong team, something that players today don't enjoy unless by design (LBJ's Heat and Cavs) or luck in the draft (Thunder, Warriors).

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PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2017 9:11 am 
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leashyourkids wrote:
long time guy wrote:
Making the Finals in a weak conf with teams that were supposed to make the Finals isn't that big a deal. The teams that he lapped to get here have been pretty shitty. If he'd accomplished it in the West it would be a much bigger deal.

Before Vegan pulls a WYC I think the East is closing the gap but it's really due to the faltering of the West. The West looks pretty shitty these days too.


The only reason he was "supposed" to make the Finals is because he was on the team.



If you substitute Kawhi Leonard for James right now they still make the Finals.

It would have much more impressive if he'd remained in Miami and done it. Aging Wade and Bosh done. Instead he ran to Cleveland mostly because of Irving and Knew the deal for Love was in place. It would have been much more impressive had he remained in Cleveland and done it.

The James that bitches about needing more players (despite having the league's highest payroll) is the James that I will remember most. He has engineered his way into two tailor made situations.

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Last edited by long time guy on Sun May 28, 2017 9:21 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2017 9:20 am 
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Jbi11s wrote:
long time guy wrote:
Making the Finals in a weak conf with teams that were supposed to make the Finals isn't that big a deal. The teams that he lapped to get here have been pretty shitty. If he'd accomplished it in the West it would be a much bigger deal.

Before Vegan pulls a WYC I think the East is closing the gap but it's really due to the faltering of the West. The West looks pretty shitty these days too.


Just a random question LTG, and I'm not trying to argue anything, where do you think next year's T'Wolves would finish in the east with the same healthy roaster?

I honestly think they should be playing in the east anyway.



Off the top and this is a good question about 6 or 7. I'd have to think on it a little more. I'd have to think about teams on the rise like my Sixers lol and teams already in the playoffs.

Teams definitely better

Cavs
Wizards
Raptor
Celtics
Bucks

Other teams better
Sixers
Hawks
Charlotte

9 or 10.

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PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2017 9:31 am 
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long time guy wrote:
Jbi11s wrote:
long time guy wrote:
Making the Finals in a weak conf with teams that were supposed to make the Finals isn't that big a deal. The teams that he lapped to get here have been pretty shitty. If he'd accomplished it in the West it would be a much bigger deal.

Before Vegan pulls a WYC I think the East is closing the gap but it's really due to the faltering of the West. The West looks pretty shitty these days too.


Just a random question LTG, and I'm not trying to argue anything, where do you think next year's T'Wolves would finish in the east with the same healthy roaster?

I honestly think they should be playing in the east anyway.



Off the top and this is a good question about 6 or 7. I'd have to think on it a little more. I'd have to think about teams on the rise like my Sixers lol and teams already in the playoffs.

Teams definitely better

Cavs
Wizards
Raptor
Celtics
Bucks

Other teams better
Sixers
Hawks
Charlotte

9 or 10.

Next year if they over achieved I'd have them at 5 or 6. The Raptors could get blown up this summer. Milwaukee/ Minny would be a good playoff matchup. I think the Hawks are mediocre with a good coach. Charlotte is hit or miss each year. A healthy Sixers team is still something I need to see to properly evaluate them.

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PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2017 9:35 am 
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What is the point of this league even

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PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2017 9:53 am 
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leashyourkids wrote:
Of course it's a huge deal. Anyone who tries to act like making the Finals this many times is no big deal is retarded.
It isn't a huge deal. If he had no rings we would be laughing at him.

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PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2017 9:59 am 
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Curious Hair wrote:
What is the point of this league even

There's 30 teams and they play basketball against eachother to determine who has the best basketball team.

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PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2017 10:15 am 
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Jbi11s wrote:
long time guy wrote:
Jbi11s wrote:
long time guy wrote:
Making the Finals in a weak conf with teams that were supposed to make the Finals isn't that big a deal. The teams that he lapped to get here have been pretty shitty. If he'd accomplished it in the West it would be a much bigger deal.

Before Vegan pulls a WYC I think the East is closing the gap but it's really due to the faltering of the West. The West looks pretty shitty these days too.


Just a random question LTG, and I'm not trying to argue anything, where do you think next year's T'Wolves would finish in the east with the same healthy roaster?

I honestly think they should be playing in the east anyway.



Off the top and this is a good question about 6 or 7. I'd have to think on it a little more. I'd have to think about teams on the rise like my Sixers lol and teams already in the playoffs.

Teams definitely better

Cavs
Wizards
Raptor
Celtics
Bucks

Other teams better
Sixers
Hawks
Charlotte

9 or 10.

Next year if they over achieved I'd have them at 5 or 6. The Raptors could get blown up this summer. Milwaukee/ Minny would be a good playoff matchup. I think the Hawks are mediocre with a good coach. Charlotte is hit or miss each year. A healthy Sixers team is still something I need to see to properly evaluate them.


Minnesota has to get decidedly better too. I know there is a school of thought that says they're young they will be fine. They finished with a worse record than Sacramento. With better talent and in theory a better coach that should never happen.

I agree with everything you said in your post though. Raptors is contingent on coming back with the same top guys. Philly can t have their best players hurt all the time.

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PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2017 10:31 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
Of course it's a huge deal. Anyone who tries to act like making the Finals this many times is no big deal is retarded.
It isn't a huge deal. If he had no rings we would be laughing at him.


What?

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PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2017 10:40 am 
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leashyourkids wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
Of course it's a huge deal. Anyone who tries to act like making the Finals this many times is no big deal is retarded.
It isn't a huge deal. If he had no rings we would be laughing at him.


What?
Only the wins matter. No one would be praising him for being the Buffalo Bills.

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PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2017 10:46 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
Of course it's a huge deal. Anyone who tries to act like making the Finals this many times is no big deal is retarded.
It isn't a huge deal. If he had no rings we would be laughing at him.


What?
Only the wins matter. No one would be praising him for being the Buffalo Bills.


I was going to mention the Bills - I praise them for what they did (or rather what they almost did four years in a row). It's different in basketball of course. I think at the very least, even if he went 0-8 in the finals, he validated all the hype that surrounded him two years before he even played his first NBA game (the chosen one, etc.). Again, he's been in the finals as the lead dog of a team for more than half his career. The one constant in the NBA over the past seven years has been whatever team LBJ is on is going to the finals.

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PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2017 10:52 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
Of course it's a huge deal. Anyone who tries to act like making the Finals this many times is no big deal is retarded.
It isn't a huge deal. If he had no rings we would be laughing at him.


What?
Only the wins matter. No one would be praising him for being the Buffalo Bills.


That's absurd, and I'm an MJ guy.

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PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2017 10:53 am 
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veganfan21 wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
Of course it's a huge deal. Anyone who tries to act like making the Finals this many times is no big deal is retarded.
It isn't a huge deal. If he had no rings we would be laughing at him.


What?
Only the wins matter. No one would be praising him for being the Buffalo Bills.


I was going to mention the Bills - I praise them for what they did (or rather what they almost did four years in a row). It's different in basketball of course. I think at the very least, even if he went 0-8 in the finals, he validated all the hype that surrounded him two years before he even played his first NBA game (the chosen one, etc.). Again, he's been in the finals as the lead dog of a team for more than half his career. The one constant in the NBA over the past seven years has been whatever team LBJ is on is going to the finals.


This is where I disagree. If he had remained in Miami he doesn't go back. Same with Cleveland the first time. It's actually why he departed in the first place.

The media i.e. guys like Bernstein has marketed it as though you simply need LeBron and you will go the Finals. It does a disservice to Hall of Fame guys like Wade and Even Bosh to push this narrative all the time. Wade was a top 5 guy before he ever played with James. He also was the best player on a championship team before he ever played with LeBron.

Kyrie Irving was well on his way to being an All Star player before James. Love had been an All Star.

LeBron James no doubt makes teams better but he isn't putting guys on his back and carrying them to the Eastern Conf finals every year. If that were the case it wouldn't matter who his teammates are.

He doesn't come back to Cleveland without Irving and Love in place.

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PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2017 11:00 am 
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veganfan21 wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
Of course it's a huge deal. Anyone who tries to act like making the Finals this many times is no big deal is retarded.
It isn't a huge deal. If he had no rings we would be laughing at him.


What?
Only the wins matter. No one would be praising him for being the Buffalo Bills.


I was going to mention the Bills - I praise them for what they did (or rather what they almost did four years in a row). It's different in basketball of course. I think at the very least, even if he went 0-8 in the finals, he validated all the hype that surrounded him two years before he even played his first NBA game (the chosen one, etc.). Again, he's been in the finals as the lead dog of a team for more than half his career. The one constant in the NBA over the past seven years has been whatever team LBJ is on is going to the finals.
To me 1 title is bigger than 10 losses in the Finals. LeBron is great because of his titles. He isn't great because he lost a lot too.

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