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PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2017 1:39 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
It's too bad one of the many times LeBron quit in the playoffs was in 2009 when he should've met Kobe in the Finals but instead bowed out to Dwight fucking Howard and a bunch of nobodies


Yep. LeBron was terrible in that Magic series. Averaged 40-8-8.


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PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2017 1:45 pm 
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veganfan21 wrote:
long time guy wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
It's too bad one of the many times LeBron quit in the playoffs was in 2009 when he should've met Kobe in the Finals but instead bowed out to Dwight fucking Howard and a bunch of nobodies


Forgot about that one. Turkoglu was the 2nd best player on that squad as I remember.


Mo Williams vs Turkuglo sounds like an even matchup.
FavreFan wrote:

If your main point is LeBron is/was a better player than Wade, I agree. But Wade was inarguably the best player on that Heat team, and not by a small margin. Shaq averaged 20-9 and didn't even play 30 mpg


This thread has morphed into about 4-5 sub-arguments so it's hard to keep track of what is being argued. Here's a post of yours that I'm currently arguing against:

FavreFan wrote:
Ltg already handled this but no, Wade did not need LeBron to win a ring.


By posting the records of the Heat and Cavs when they had similar talent levels I've argued that LBJ's teams enjoyed better success than Wade's teams. So for me it seems Wade did in fact need LBJ to win because as Shaq declined so did the Heat. Dwayne Wade has no team success to speak of outside of his partnerships with Shaq and then LBJ/Bosh. When Wade was the first, second, and third best player on his team he never won more than 40-some games. When LBJ was in a similiar position he still made the Cavs into a 60-win contender. So, yes, Wade did need LBJ to win after Shaq declined.



You seem to be arguing whether we think Wade is Better than LeBron. No one is doing that. Conspired to play with Wade and Bosh because he knew be couldn't win without Wade and Bosh. When he saw Wade slipping rapidly he bounced again. It was an admittance on his part that he had little chance of doing anything with him. The spin seems to be that he is taking these teams and single handedly making them finals teams. That isn't the case.

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PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2017 1:47 pm 
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veganfan21 wrote:
long time guy wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
It's too bad one of the many times LeBron quit in the playoffs was in 2009 when he should've met Kobe in the Finals but instead bowed out to Dwight fucking Howard and a bunch of nobodies


Forgot about that one. Turkoglu was the 2nd best player on that squad as I remember.


Mo Williams vs Turkuglo sounds like an even matchup.
FavreFan wrote:

If your main point is LeBron is/was a better player than Wade, I agree. But Wade was inarguably the best player on that Heat team, and not by a small margin. Shaq averaged 20-9 and didn't even play 30 mpg


This thread has morphed into about 4-5 sub-arguments so it's hard to keep track of what is being argued. Here's a post of yours that I'm currently arguing against:

FavreFan wrote:
Ltg already handled this but no, Wade did not need LeBron to win a ring.


By posting the records of the Heat and Cavs when they had similar talent levels I've argued that LBJ's teams enjoyed better success than Wade's teams. So for me it seems Wade did in fact need LBJ to win because as Shaq declined so did the Heat. Dwayne Wade has no team success to speak of outside of his partnerships with Shaq and then LBJ/Bosh. When Wade was the first, second, and third best player on his team he never won more than 40-some games. When LBJ was in a similiar position he still made the Cavs into a 60-win contender. So, yes, Wade did need LBJ to win after Shaq declined.

Shaq averaged 20-9 the season the Heat won the title. He simply wasn't the player you think he was. He was a good player at that point. He wasn't dominant and he definitely wasn't commanding triple teams. Wade was on the very short list for best player in the league that year and had a dominant postseason run en route to a title. You are arguing against a statement that is objectively true. Wade won a title. Didn't need LeBron to do it.

Who knows what happens if them two and bosh never team up. Maybe Wade wins another maybe he doesn't. It's impossible to know. He was still heading into that offseason as one of the best players in the league still though, an All NBA first teamer.

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PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2017 1:49 pm 
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long time guy wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
long time guy wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
It's too bad one of the many times LeBron quit in the playoffs was in 2009 when he should've met Kobe in the Finals but instead bowed out to Dwight fucking Howard and a bunch of nobodies


Forgot about that one. Turkoglu was the 2nd best player on that squad as I remember.


Mo Williams vs Turkuglo sounds like an even matchup.
FavreFan wrote:

If your main point is LeBron is/was a better player than Wade, I agree. But Wade was inarguably the best player on that Heat team, and not by a small margin. Shaq averaged 20-9 and didn't even play 30 mpg


This thread has morphed into about 4-5 sub-arguments so it's hard to keep track of what is being argued. Here's a post of yours that I'm currently arguing against:

FavreFan wrote:
Ltg already handled this but no, Wade did not need LeBron to win a ring.


By posting the records of the Heat and Cavs when they had similar talent levels I've argued that LBJ's teams enjoyed better success than Wade's teams. So for me it seems Wade did in fact need LBJ to win because as Shaq declined so did the Heat. Dwayne Wade has no team success to speak of outside of his partnerships with Shaq and then LBJ/Bosh. When Wade was the first, second, and third best player on his team he never won more than 40-some games. When LBJ was in a similiar position he still made the Cavs into a 60-win contender. So, yes, Wade did need LBJ to win after Shaq declined.



You seem to be arguing whether we think Wade is Better than LeBron. No one is doing that. Conspired to play with Wade and Bosh because he knew be couldn't win without Wade and Bosh. When he saw Wade slipping rapidly he bounced again. It was an admittance on his part that he had little chance of doing anything with him. The spin seems to be that he is taking these teams and single handedly making them finals teams. That isn't the case.


Why is the onus on LBJ to go it alone and not Wade and Bosh? They are equal co-conspirators. If LBJ's two titles with the Heat have an asterisk then that asterisk has to apply to Bosh and Wade as well. Like I said before, LBJ has a record of non-title success outside of Bosh and Wade when they had teams of similar talent. Bosh and Wade don't have that same record. So, yes, adding the much more accomplished James to the mix single handedly made them a serious contender.

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PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2017 4:48 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
long time guy wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
It's too bad one of the many times LeBron quit in the playoffs was in 2009 when he should've met Kobe in the Finals but instead bowed out to Dwight fucking Howard and a bunch of nobodies


Forgot about that one. Turkoglu was the 2nd best player on that squad as I remember.


Mo Williams vs Turkuglo sounds like an even matchup.
FavreFan wrote:

If your main point is LeBron is/was a better player than Wade, I agree. But Wade was inarguably the best player on that Heat team, and not by a small margin. Shaq averaged 20-9 and didn't even play 30 mpg


This thread has morphed into about 4-5 sub-arguments so it's hard to keep track of what is being argued. Here's a post of yours that I'm currently arguing against:

FavreFan wrote:
Ltg already handled this but no, Wade did not need LeBron to win a ring.


By posting the records of the Heat and Cavs when they had similar talent levels I've argued that LBJ's teams enjoyed better success than Wade's teams. So for me it seems Wade did in fact need LBJ to win because as Shaq declined so did the Heat. Dwayne Wade has no team success to speak of outside of his partnerships with Shaq and then LBJ/Bosh. When Wade was the first, second, and third best player on his team he never won more than 40-some games. When LBJ was in a similiar position he still made the Cavs into a 60-win contender. So, yes, Wade did need LBJ to win after Shaq declined.

Shaq averaged 20-9 the season the Heat won the title. He simply wasn't the player you think he was. He was a good player at that point. He wasn't dominant and he definitely wasn't commanding triple teams. Wade was on the very short list for best player in the league that year and had a dominant postseason run en route to a title. You are arguing against a statement that is objectively true. Wade won a title. Didn't need LeBron to do it.

Who knows what happens if them two and bosh never team up. Maybe Wade wins another maybe he doesn't. It's impossible to know. He was still heading into that offseason as one of the best players in the league still though, an All NBA first teamer.


I don't dispute (obviously) that Wade was an all world player. If you want to talk about truths then you also have to deal with the Heat's record once Shaq continued to decline. There's an undeniable correlation there that clearly suggests Shaq was not some Taj Gibson type player that you're implying he was. As he declined so did the heat. What also shouldn't be in dispute is that Wade and Shaq comprised a better team than any team LeBron was on prior to 2010. If you really want to compare how LBJ and Wade fared as the leader of their respective teams then you got to compare apples to apples, which is what I did above. When you do that you'll see Wade was far more in need of someone like LBJ than vice versa. LBJ was racking up 60 win seasons playing with Larry Hughes while Wade was putting up 40 win seasons with similar supporting talent.

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PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2017 5:59 pm 
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veganfan21 wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
long time guy wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
It's too bad one of the many times LeBron quit in the playoffs was in 2009 when he should've met Kobe in the Finals but instead bowed out to Dwight fucking Howard and a bunch of nobodies


Forgot about that one. Turkoglu was the 2nd best player on that squad as I remember.


Mo Williams vs Turkuglo sounds like an even matchup.
FavreFan wrote:

If your main point is LeBron is/was a better player than Wade, I agree. But Wade was inarguably the best player on that Heat team, and not by a small margin. Shaq averaged 20-9 and didn't even play 30 mpg


This thread has morphed into about 4-5 sub-arguments so it's hard to keep track of what is being argued. Here's a post of yours that I'm currently arguing against:

FavreFan wrote:
Ltg already handled this but no, Wade did not need LeBron to win a ring.


By posting the records of the Heat and Cavs when they had similar talent levels I've argued that LBJ's teams enjoyed better success than Wade's teams. So for me it seems Wade did in fact need LBJ to win because as Shaq declined so did the Heat. Dwayne Wade has no team success to speak of outside of his partnerships with Shaq and then LBJ/Bosh. When Wade was the first, second, and third best player on his team he never won more than 40-some games. When LBJ was in a similiar position he still made the Cavs into a 60-win contender. So, yes, Wade did need LBJ to win after Shaq declined.

Shaq averaged 20-9 the season the Heat won the title. He simply wasn't the player you think he was. He was a good player at that point. He wasn't dominant and he definitely wasn't commanding triple teams. Wade was on the very short list for best player in the league that year and had a dominant postseason run en route to a title. You are arguing against a statement that is objectively true. Wade won a title. Didn't need LeBron to do it.

Who knows what happens if them two and bosh never team up. Maybe Wade wins another maybe he doesn't. It's impossible to know. He was still heading into that offseason as one of the best players in the league still though, an All NBA first teamer.


I don't dispute (obviously) that Wade was an all world player. If you want to talk about truths then you also have to deal with the Heat's record once Shaq continued to decline. There's an undeniable correlation there that clearly suggests Shaq was not some Taj Gibson type player that you're implying he was. As he declined so did the heat. What also shouldn't be in dispute is that Wade and Shaq comprised a better team than any team LeBron was on prior to 2010. If you really want to compare how LBJ and Wade fared as the leader of their respective teams then you got to compare apples to apples, which is what I did above. When you do that you'll see Wade was far more in need of someone like LBJ than vice versa. LBJ was racking up 60 win seasons playing with Larry Hughes while Wade was putting up 40 win seasons with similar supporting talent.

Vegan Wade had one of the best Finals runs of the past 35 years. That's with Shaq on the team. He ended Josh Howard's career. The guy was an All world player and Bosh was top 10 before he signed with the Heat. LeBron attempted to replicate that with Cleveland. He has for the most part. Kyrie Irving is a top 10 player but he will be never get his due because no matter what it's about LeBron. They need to find a way to get LeBron in the Jordan conversation. Particularly since Kobe is gone.

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PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2017 6:08 pm 
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long time guy wrote:
They need to find a way to get LeBron in the Jordan conversation. Particularly since Kobe is gone.


Huh? Get him in the conversation? Everywhere you turn today there is talk of Lebron vs. Jordan and is Lebron passing Jordan for GOAT. He is definitely in the conversation

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PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2017 6:38 pm 
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Kyrie would have nothing without LeBron. His record with Cleveland is even worse than Wade's with Miami after Shaq declined. The common denominator is LeBron and that's why he gets all the press. Nothing wrong with Kyrie and Wade being Pippens.

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PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2017 6:57 pm 
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I think LeBron is easily as good as mj. But a ring this year, with these circumstances... No question. Would be goat.

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PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2017 11:14 am 
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veganfan21 wrote:
Kyrie would have nothing without LeBron. His record with Cleveland is even worse than Wade's with Miami after Shaq declined. The common denominator is LeBron and that's why he gets all the press. Nothing wrong with Kyrie and Wade being Pippens.


This why it's fallacious to simply go by records. 21 year old kid with this particular roster. Whose going to win with this roster?

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/CLE/2014.html

One big shitshow of a team and whats he going to do with that?

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PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2017 11:16 am 
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long time guy wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
Kyrie would have nothing without LeBron. His record with Cleveland is even worse than Wade's with Miami after Shaq declined. The common denominator is LeBron and that's why he gets all the press. Nothing wrong with Kyrie and Wade being Pippens.


This why it's fallacious to simply go by records. 21 year old kid with this particular roster. Whose going to win with this roster?

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/CLE/2014.html


Compare that roster against LeBron's NBA finals team from 2007. LBJ makes everyone better. Wade and Irving don't.

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PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2017 11:20 am 
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veganfan21 wrote:
long time guy wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
Kyrie would have nothing without LeBron. His record with Cleveland is even worse than Wade's with Miami after Shaq declined. The common denominator is LeBron and that's why he gets all the press. Nothing wrong with Kyrie and Wade being Pippens.


This why it's fallacious to simply go by records. 21 year old kid with this particular roster. Whose going to win with this roster?

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/CLE/2014.html


Compare that roster against LeBron's NBA finals team from 2007. LBJ makes everyone better. Wade and Irving don't.



LBJ's roster is better than what Irving had. There are probably 8-10 guys from that team that were out the league in less than 3 years. LBJ is better than Irving. You take Irving off Cleveland and James doesn't return. Take Irving off that team last season and they win nothing. Guys in the league know of that kids talent. It's why James came back.

Irving was also just 21. He won 33 games with a collection of stiffs and also Sat out last 3 weeks because the team was so shitty. I watched a lot of bad basketball because of that kid alone. He is the truth.

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PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2017 12:58 pm 
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veganfan21 wrote:
long time guy wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
long time guy wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
It's too bad one of the many times LeBron quit in the playoffs was in 2009 when he should've met Kobe in the Finals but instead bowed out to Dwight fucking Howard and a bunch of nobodies


Forgot about that one. Turkoglu was the 2nd best player on that squad as I remember.


Mo Williams vs Turkuglo sounds like an even matchup.
FavreFan wrote:

If your main point is LeBron is/was a better player than Wade, I agree. But Wade was inarguably the best player on that Heat team, and not by a small margin. Shaq averaged 20-9 and didn't even play 30 mpg


This thread has morphed into about 4-5 sub-arguments so it's hard to keep track of what is being argued. Here's a post of yours that I'm currently arguing against:

FavreFan wrote:
Ltg already handled this but no, Wade did not need LeBron to win a ring.


By posting the records of the Heat and Cavs when they had similar talent levels I've argued that LBJ's teams enjoyed better success than Wade's teams. So for me it seems Wade did in fact need LBJ to win because as Shaq declined so did the Heat. Dwayne Wade has no team success to speak of outside of his partnerships with Shaq and then LBJ/Bosh. When Wade was the first, second, and third best player on his team he never won more than 40-some games. When LBJ was in a similiar position he still made the Cavs into a 60-win contender. So, yes, Wade did need LBJ to win after Shaq declined.



You seem to be arguing whether we think Wade is Better than LeBron. No one is doing that. Conspired to play with Wade and Bosh because he knew be couldn't win without Wade and Bosh. When he saw Wade slipping rapidly he bounced again. It was an admittance on his part that he had little chance of doing anything with him. The spin seems to be that he is taking these teams and single handedly making them finals teams. That isn't the case.


Why is the onus on LBJ to go it alone and not Wade and Bosh? They are equal co-conspirators. If LBJ's two titles with the Heat have an asterisk then that asterisk has to apply to Bosh and Wade as well. Like I said before, LBJ has a record of non-title success outside of Bosh and Wade when they had teams of similar talent. Bosh and Wade don't have that same record. So, yes, adding the much more accomplished James to the mix single handedly made them a serious contender.



In a sense Wade did sort of go it alone in that Dallas series. If memory serves correct Mourning was as much a factor as Shaq in that particular series. His shot blocking and overall rim protection was more pivotal than anything Shaq did.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2017 7:30 pm 
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LeBron is the best player since Kobe -and I'd say a step above him at this point. All these finals in a row with a few wins sprinkled in is pretty spectacular.


It's not Jordan level or anything like that, but it is remarkable in its own right. But of course, some people won't accept this and continue to ask what he can do to surpass MJ -even tho LeBron lead teams already flopped too many times in the finals for that to happen.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2017 7:36 pm 
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veganfan21 wrote:
Kyrie would have nothing without LeBron. His record with Cleveland is even worse than Wade's with Miami after Shaq declined. The common denominator is LeBron and that's why he gets all the press. Nothing wrong with Kyrie and Wade being Pippens.






Except that Wade has a ring without LeBron and was HoF level great prior to teaming up with him, but other than that..

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2017 8:50 pm 
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NME wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
Kyrie would have nothing without LeBron. His record with Cleveland is even worse than Wade's with Miami after Shaq declined. The common denominator is LeBron and that's why he gets all the press. Nothing wrong with Kyrie and Wade being Pippens.



Except that Wade has a ring without LeBron and was HoF level great prior to teaming up with him, but other than that..



You seem to have missed some posts where the point you think you're making was already established. Let me repeat it:

1) LBJ never had a co-star like Shaq
2) When Shaq declined, the Heat resembled the Cavs: one star and nothing else.
3) LBJ enjoyed more team success than Wade did when their respective teams were similarly talented (or not talented), meaning when Shaq declined
4) Points #2-3 above strongly suggest LBJ would have won a title without teaming up with Wade since he was leading a team of scrubs to the playoffs annually, and Wade was putting up 40-win seasons at the same time.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2017 8:58 pm 
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veganfan21 wrote:
NME wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
Kyrie would have nothing without LeBron. His record with Cleveland is even worse than Wade's with Miami after Shaq declined. The common denominator is LeBron and that's why he gets all the press. Nothing wrong with Kyrie and Wade being Pippens.



Except that Wade has a ring without LeBron and was HoF level great prior to teaming up with him, but other than that..



You seem to have missed some posts where the point you think you're making was already established. Let me repeat it:

1) LBJ never had a co-star like Shaq
2) When Shaq declined, the Heat resembled the Cavs: one star and nothing else.
3) LBJ enjoyed more team success than Wade did when their respective teams were similarly talented (or not talented), meaning when Shaq declined
4) Points #2-3 above strongly suggest LBJ would have won a title without teaming up with Wade since he was leading a team of scrubs to the playoffs annually, and Wade was putting up 40-win seasons at the same time.



Dwayne Wade is the reason Miami defeated Dallas in 06. Shaq played a very minor role during that series.

LeBron James doesn't win a ring without teaming up with Wade and Bosh that's why he teamed up with Wade and Bosh. Purely speculative to suggest otherwise.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2017 9:08 pm 
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:lol: Another LTG-ism. If it's speculative to suggest that LBJ would have won without Wade then it's also speculative to say he wouldn't have won without teaming up with Wade.

Shaq was good during that season; Wade dominating the finals doesn't refute the overall contention.

Wade did nothing when Shaq declined. James excelled with sub par temmates. Wade's got nothing to show for his career outside of gaudy individual stats when he wasn't paired with an all star teammate.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2017 9:13 pm 
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He never won prior to teaming up Wade. That is sort of you know factual.

LeBron James is a better player than Wade. No one is disputing that. It still doesn't discount the fact that he needed Wade to win a ring. Shaq isn't the reason Wade has a ring.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2017 9:21 pm 
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long time guy wrote:
He never won prior to teaming up Wade. That is sort of you know factual.

LeBron James is a better player than Wade. No one is disputing that. It still doesn't discount the fact that he needed Wade to win a ring. Shaq isn't the reason Wade has a ring.


Yes he so obviously is. Can you list Wade's non-Shaq or LeBron titles? Finals appearances? Conference finals appearances? He's got nothing.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2017 9:21 pm 
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veganfan21 wrote:
long time guy wrote:
He never won prior to teaming up Wade. That is sort of you know factual.

LeBron James is a better player than Wade. No one is disputing that. It still doesn't discount the fact that he needed Wade to win a ring. Shaq isn't the reason Wade has a ring.


Yes he so obviously is. Can you list Wade's non-Shaq or LeBron titles? Finals appearances? Conference finals appearances? He's got nothing.



Wade was by far the best player on that Miami team.

James bailed on Cleveland after realizing he'd have trouble getting out of the 2nd round going forward.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2017 9:23 pm 
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long time guy wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
long time guy wrote:
He never won prior to teaming up Wade. That is sort of you know factual.

LeBron James is a better player than Wade. No one is disputing that. It still doesn't discount the fact that he needed Wade to win a ring. Shaq isn't the reason Wade has a ring.


Yes he so obviously is. Can you list Wade's non-Shaq or LeBron titles? Finals appearances? Conference finals appearances? He's got nothing.



Wade was by far the best player on that Miami team.


Not addressing the point. Why is Wade's record when Shaq was injured and then gone so terrible if he's capable of "winning it all on his own?".

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2017 9:23 pm 
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veganfan21 wrote:
long time guy wrote:
He never won prior to teaming up Wade. That is sort of you know factual.

LeBron James is a better player than Wade. No one is disputing that. It still doesn't discount the fact that he needed Wade to win a ring. Shaq isn't the reason Wade has a ring.


Yes he so obviously is. Can you list Wade's non-Shaq or LeBron titles? Finals appearances? Conference finals appearances? He's got nothing.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Is this a bit? Outside of the three titles and Finals MVP he won Wade's never won anything!

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2017 9:24 pm 
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veganfan21 wrote:
long time guy wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
long time guy wrote:
He never won prior to teaming up Wade. That is sort of you know factual.

LeBron James is a better player than Wade. No one is disputing that. It still doesn't discount the fact that he needed Wade to win a ring. Shaq isn't the reason Wade has a ring.


Yes he so obviously is. Can you list Wade's non-Shaq or LeBron titles? Finals appearances? Conference finals appearances? He's got nothing.



Wade was by far the best player on that Miami team.


Not addressing the point. Why is Wade's record when Shaq was injured and then gone so terrible if he's capable of "winning it all on his own?".



Is Shaq the reason Miami won in 06?

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2017 9:25 pm 
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Y
FavreFan wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
long time guy wrote:
He never won prior to teaming up Wade. That is sort of you know factual.

LeBron James is a better player than Wade. No one is disputing that. It still doesn't discount the fact that he needed Wade to win a ring. Shaq isn't the reason Wade has a ring.


Yes he so obviously is. Can you list Wade's non-Shaq or LeBron titles? Finals appearances? Conference finals appearances? He's got nothing.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Is this a bit? Outside of the three titles and Finals MVP he won Wade's never won anything!


I said titles without LBJ or Shaq. Trying to compare apples to apples here.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2017 9:26 pm 
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veganfan21 wrote:
Y
FavreFan wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
long time guy wrote:
He never won prior to teaming up Wade. That is sort of you know factual.

LeBron James is a better player than Wade. No one is disputing that. It still doesn't discount the fact that he needed Wade to win a ring. Shaq isn't the reason Wade has a ring.


Yes he so obviously is. Can you list Wade's non-Shaq or LeBron titles? Finals appearances? Conference finals appearances? He's got nothing.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Is this a bit? Outside of the three titles and Finals MVP he won Wade's never won anything!


I said titles without LBJ or Shaq. Trying to compare apples to apples here.

Take away the titles LeBron has won with Wade or Kyrie and he's got zero titles too. Not sure what the point of saying something like that is.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2017 9:27 pm 
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long time guy wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
long time guy wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
long time guy wrote:
He never won prior to teaming up Wade. That is sort of you know factual.

LeBron James is a better player than Wade. No one is disputing that. It still doesn't discount the fact that he needed Wade to win a ring. Shaq isn't the reason Wade has a ring.


Yes he so obviously is. Can you list Wade's non-Shaq or LeBron titles? Finals appearances? Conference finals appearances? He's got nothing.



Wade was by far the best player on that Miami team.


Not addressing the point. Why is Wade's record when Shaq was injured and then gone so terrible if he's capable of "winning it all on his own?".



Is Shaq the reason Miami won in 06?


Without Shaq they don't win. That's why they didn't repeat and that's also why when Shaq stopped playing Miami basically became a team that should have been contracted out of the league. And this is with peak Wade.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2017 9:29 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
Y
FavreFan wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
long time guy wrote:
He never won prior to teaming up Wade. That is sort of you know factual.

LeBron James is a better player than Wade. No one is disputing that. It still doesn't discount the fact that he needed Wade to win a ring. Shaq isn't the reason Wade has a ring.


Yes he so obviously is. Can you list Wade's non-Shaq or LeBron titles? Finals appearances? Conference finals appearances? He's got nothing.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Is this a bit? Outside of the three titles and Finals MVP he won Wade's never won anything!


I said titles without LBJ or Shaq. Trying to compare apples to apples here.

Take away the titles LeBron has won with Wade or Kyrie and he's got zero titles too. Not sure what the point of saying something like that is.


The argument is who was more in need of the other to win it all. I don't accept that because Wade won with Shaq in 2006 he was less in need of LBJ to win again. Wade was at the bottom of the league for multiple seasons once Shaq declined and then left. LBJ won 125 regular season games over two seasons during the same time. He was fine and would have been fine. Wade was the needy one.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2017 9:32 pm 
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They were only at the bottom of the league for one year, the year Wade got hurt, illustrating his 30 win value. Cleveland had a better team around LeBron in 2008-2009 than Wade did in Miami

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2017 9:35 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
They were only at the bottom of the league for one year, the year Wade got hurt, illustrating his 30 win value. Cleveland had a better team around LeBron in 2008-2009 than Wade did in Miami


From speculative to hyperbolic. What's next? Wade is only a Hall of Fame player because he played with Shaq and Lebron?

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