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 Post subject: Re: Who you got?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 5:18 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
Nas wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
Nas wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
Zippy-The-Pinhead wrote:
FF, Vegan, et al...I know you're both significantly younger than me. Did either of you see 'Nique in his prime? He was a stud. Top 3 for a few yrs. Kawhi has become a great player but stats be damned...he's not the player DW was (keeping in mind the respective eras).


I don't think I saw him at all :lol:

Listen, I know he was a stud. But he excelled at just one facet of the game. Without necessarily pointing to Kawhi, I just think the more dynamic players generally add more value to a given team. I think an ideal comp for Nique is Melo - the career numbers are eerily similar.


He rebounded the ball too. He just didn't have to play defense.

Hard to tell if you're talking about Melo or Nique still.

"Didn't have to" is an odd way of putting it.


Marshmelo could never score like Dominique and Marshmelo isn't in the same class as Dominique. In a much tougher league Dominique was a top 3 scorer and top 10 player most of his career. He destroyed all time great defenders like Scottie even late in his career. Bird and Jordan kept him from the Finals because both were much better players. BTW Bird wasn't a good defender either but he'll always be better than 15 points and 6 rebounds Leonard.

"Much tougher league" doesn't mean anything. It's your opinion and there's no way to back it up.

Bird was a great overall player. Dominique and Carmelo are great scorers and good rebounders, hence the comparison. But even at his absolute scoring best, Nique was about the same of a scorer as Kawhi is this year, except less efficient.

Do you know how hard it is for a swing player to win DPOY? And Kawhi has already won it twice. His PER and Win Shares crush Nique's best seasons.

But it looks like you're already conceding the better player argument and are content to repeatedly go back to career numbers. That's fine.


I'm going by stats and the eye test and Leonard isn't there yet. His best season scoring and rebounding is less than what Dominique averaged for his career.

There are nos great centers in the league so who else do you expect to win the award. He's Scottie Pippen like defensively. That's probably a good comparison for him now.

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 Post subject: Re: Who you got?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 5:22 pm 
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Your first statement is wrong and ignores actual data, so it's really not worth responding to.

Kawhi is comparable defensively to Scottie(although Kawhi is probably a bit better) and a far superior offensive player.

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 Post subject: Re: Who you got?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 5:26 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
Your first statement is wrong and ignores actual data, so it's really not worth responding to.

Kawhi is comparable defensively to Scottie(although Kawhi is probably a bit better) and a far superior offensive player.


Has Kawhi been the leader of any team? He's a great role player that doesn't have the pressure of leading. We all saw how he handled pressure in Miami. Right now he's not better than Scottie or Dominique. One really good season doesn't change that.

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 Post subject: Re: Who you got?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 5:29 pm 
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Nas wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
Your first statement is wrong and ignores actual data, so it's really not worth responding to.

Kawhi is comparable defensively to Scottie(although Kawhi is probably a bit better) and a far superior offensive player.


Has Kawhi been the leader of any team? He's a great role player that doesn't have the pressure of leading. We all saw how he handled pressure in Miami. Right now he's not better than Scottie or Dominique. One really good season doesn't change that.

He was 2nd in MVP voting last year and is better this year. Stop going to ridiculous extremes, you sound like a dope.

The "leader" thing is silly and childish. Draymond Green is the "leader" of the Warriors right now. He was the best player on a title winning team. Enough said.

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 Post subject: Re: Who you got?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 5:34 pm 
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Zippy-The-Pinhead wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
Zippy-The-Pinhead wrote:
FF, Vegan, et al...I know you're both significantly younger than me. Did either of you see 'Nique in his prime? He was a stud. Top 3 for a few yrs. Kawhi has become a great player but stats be damned...he's not the player DW was (keeping in mind the respective eras).


I don't think I saw him at all :lol:

Listen, I know he was a stud. But he excelled at just one facet of the game. Without necessarily pointing to Kawhi, I just think the more dynamic players generally add more value to a given team. I think an ideal comp for Nique is Melo - the career numbers are eerily similar.

I don't entirely discount stats but we all know the style of play, enforcement of rules, etc have a significant affect on the data. If you had seen him play I suspect you'd feel differently.


Sure but again would I be thoroughly impressed by how effortlessly he scored against football type defenses? Probably. But did he do anything else? Honest question. I don't see you disputing the knock on him as a one dimensional player, like Melo.

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 Post subject: Re: Who you got?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 5:48 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
Nas wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
Your first statement is wrong and ignores actual data, so it's really not worth responding to.

Kawhi is comparable defensively to Scottie(although Kawhi is probably a bit better) and a far superior offensive player.


Has Kawhi been the leader of any team? He's a great role player that doesn't have the pressure of leading. We all saw how he handled pressure in Miami. Right now he's not better than Scottie or Dominique. One really good season doesn't change that.

He was 2nd in MVP voting last year and is better this year. Stop going to ridiculous extremes, you sound like a dope.

The "leader" thing is silly and childish. Draymond Green is the "leader" of the Warriors right now. He was the best player on a title winning team. Enough said.


Duncan was still their best player. Kawhi became the clear best player this year but he still can't lead.

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Blago: https://youtube.com/shorts/Lftdxd-YXt8?feature=share

"You can’t love your country only when you win." -President Biden

https://youtu.be/R6e4ruziZBI?si=1G4W1vbh0eGQuHfU


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 Post subject: Re: Who you got?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 5:49 pm 
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Nas wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
Nas wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
Your first statement is wrong and ignores actual data, so it's really not worth responding to.

Kawhi is comparable defensively to Scottie(although Kawhi is probably a bit better) and a far superior offensive player.


Has Kawhi been the leader of any team? He's a great role player that doesn't have the pressure of leading. We all saw how he handled pressure in Miami. Right now he's not better than Scottie or Dominique. One really good season doesn't change that.

He was 2nd in MVP voting last year and is better this year. Stop going to ridiculous extremes, you sound like a dope.

The "leader" thing is silly and childish. Draymond Green is the "leader" of the Warriors right now. He was the best player on a title winning team. Enough said.


Duncan was still their best player. Kawhi became the clear best player this year but he still can't lead.

The can't lead thing is an example of a dopey statement with no meaning. And you're wrong about Duncan being their best player when they won a title. Kawhi was objectively their best player at that point.

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 Post subject: Re: Who you got?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 6:07 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
Nas wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
Nas wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
Your first statement is wrong and ignores actual data, so it's really not worth responding to.

Kawhi is comparable defensively to Scottie(although Kawhi is probably a bit better) and a far superior offensive player.


Has Kawhi been the leader of any team? He's a great role player that doesn't have the pressure of leading. We all saw how he handled pressure in Miami. Right now he's not better than Scottie or Dominique. One really good season doesn't change that.

He was 2nd in MVP voting last year and is better this year. Stop going to ridiculous extremes, you sound like a dope.

The "leader" thing is silly and childish. Draymond Green is the "leader" of the Warriors right now. He was the best player on a title winning team. Enough said.


Duncan was still their best player. Kawhi became the clear best player this year but he still can't lead.

The can't lead thing is an example of a dopey statement with no meaning. And you're wrong about Duncan being their best player when they won a title. Kawhi was objectively their best player at that point.


He had similar numbers as Duncan even though Duncan played fewer mins. Duncan's leadership clearly gave him the edge. Leonard's last 3 games in the Finals put him on the path to stardom.

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Nas: Blago, who has single handedly destroyed CFMB?

Blago: https://youtube.com/shorts/Lftdxd-YXt8?feature=share

"You can’t love your country only when you win." -President Biden

https://youtu.be/R6e4ruziZBI?si=1G4W1vbh0eGQuHfU


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 Post subject: Re: Who you got?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 6:13 pm 
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Nas wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
Nas wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
Nas wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
Your first statement is wrong and ignores actual data, so it's really not worth responding to.

Kawhi is comparable defensively to Scottie(although Kawhi is probably a bit better) and a far superior offensive player.


Has Kawhi been the leader of any team? He's a great role player that doesn't have the pressure of leading. We all saw how he handled pressure in Miami. Right now he's not better than Scottie or Dominique. One really good season doesn't change that.

He was 2nd in MVP voting last year and is better this year. Stop going to ridiculous extremes, you sound like a dope.

The "leader" thing is silly and childish. Draymond Green is the "leader" of the Warriors right now. He was the best player on a title winning team. Enough said.


Duncan was still their best player. Kawhi became the clear best player this year but he still can't lead.

The can't lead thing is an example of a dopey statement with no meaning. And you're wrong about Duncan being their best player when they won a title. Kawhi was objectively their best player at that point.


He had similar numbers as Duncan even though Duncan played fewer mins. Duncan's leadership clearly gave him the edge. Leonard's last 3 games in the Finals put him on the path to stardom.

Kawhi was the best defensive player in the league, which clearly gave HIM the advantage. The advanced numbers and the eye test were also in favor of Kawhi. And I told you before that season even started Kawhi was going to be a superstar. It was obvious watching him.

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 Post subject: Re: Who you got?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 6:27 pm 
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He was already an elite defender. He just needed to work on his jump shot and he did. BTW Kawhi was all defensive 2nd team in 2014. Duncan was still the best player until about Game 4 of the Finals.

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Blago: https://youtube.com/shorts/Lftdxd-YXt8?feature=share

"You can’t love your country only when you win." -President Biden

https://youtu.be/R6e4ruziZBI?si=1G4W1vbh0eGQuHfU


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