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PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2017 6:05 am 
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long time guy wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
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Same thing with G.S. Utah. Gobert being guarded by 6'6 6'7 Draymond Green and they don't run one post up for him. When people talk about it being a better NBA they are lying. I love the league but it's not better than it was 25 30 years ago. When your top centers are relegated to being alley catching ball fetchers there is no way that it can be called a better NBA. Bunch of guys that you can't run a play for at Center.

Draymond Green is neck and neck with Kawhi Leonard as the best defensive player in the entire NBA. If he posted up Draymond Green it would be a wasted possession every single time and a turnover most of the time.

Draymond Green is going to win Defensive Player of the Year this year. Your advice is seriously to attack him one on one? :lol: :lol:


Yes. Good offense always can beat good defense. Gobert is 7'3. He should be able to shoot over Draemond Green and score with no problem Green is a position defender against guys his size. He isn't a shot blocker. No way in he'll that he can guard a skilled 7 footer. That is the problem. Not enough skilled 7 footers in the league. That is why he can get away with playing the 5 so much. More an indictment on post players than it is an endorsement of his defensive abilities.


Explain Bill Russell

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PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2017 6:11 am 
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Walt Williams Neck wrote:
long time guy wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
long time guy wrote:
Same thing with G.S. Utah. Gobert being guarded by 6'6 6'7 Draymond Green and they don't run one post up for him. When people talk about it being a better NBA they are lying. I love the league but it's not better than it was 25 30 years ago. When your top centers are relegated to being alley catching ball fetchers there is no way that it can be called a better NBA. Bunch of guys that you can't run a play for at Center.

Draymond Green is neck and neck with Kawhi Leonard as the best defensive player in the entire NBA. If he posted up Draymond Green it would be a wasted possession every single time and a turnover most of the time.

Draymond Green is going to win Defensive Player of the Year this year. Your advice is seriously to attack him one on one? :lol: :lol:


Yes. Good offense always can beat good defense. Gobert is 7'3. He should be able to shoot over Draemond Green and score with no problem Green is a position defender against guys his size. He isn't a shot blocker. No way in he'll that he can guard a skilled 7 footer. That is the problem. Not enough skilled 7 footers in the league. That is why he can get away with playing the 5 so much. More an indictment on post players than it is an endorsement of his defensive abilities.


Explain Bill Russell



4 other Hall of Famers who could score like motherfuckers.

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PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2017 6:30 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Walt Williams Neck wrote:
long time guy wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
long time guy wrote:
Same thing with G.S. Utah. Gobert being guarded by 6'6 6'7 Draymond Green and they don't run one post up for him. When people talk about it being a better NBA they are lying. I love the league but it's not better than it was 25 30 years ago. When your top centers are relegated to being alley catching ball fetchers there is no way that it can be called a better NBA. Bunch of guys that you can't run a play for at Center.

Draymond Green is neck and neck with Kawhi Leonard as the best defensive player in the entire NBA. If he posted up Draymond Green it would be a wasted possession every single time and a turnover most of the time.

Draymond Green is going to win Defensive Player of the Year this year. Your advice is seriously to attack him one on one? :lol: :lol:


Yes. Good offense always can beat good defense. Gobert is 7'3. He should be able to shoot over Draemond Green and score with no problem Green is a position defender against guys his size. He isn't a shot blocker. No way in he'll that he can guard a skilled 7 footer. That is the problem. Not enough skilled 7 footers in the league. That is why he can get away with playing the 5 so much. More an indictment on post players than it is an endorsement of his defensive abilities.


Explain Bill Russell



4 other Hall of Famers who could score like motherfuckers.

2004 Pistons

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PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2017 6:52 am 
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I understand the argument for more three point shooting and also get "some" of the reasons why play has changed since the early 90's. Still though I cannot grasp why it is completely impossible for teams to see that there still can be a place for a Kareem type player.

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PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2017 6:53 am 
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FavreFan wrote:
Put Draymond in any era of NBA basketball and he's a top 5 defensive player in the league.

Yeah, he might not be able to guard Shaq but what the fuck, nobody could. Goebert isn't an offensive player. Draymond would just destroy him one on one on the block.

You're thinking about height too much. Draymond is incredibly strong, and has textbook footwork and hands, and length superior to his height. And yes, of course he's a shot blocker. This is exactly what I'm talking about when I say everyone on here underrates him. It's outrageous to suggest any 7 footer should be able to score on him.

I can see why people would say "why don't the Wizards post up on the 5 foot 9 guy?". It's insane to suggest "Why doesn't Utah post up the DPOY and one of the best defensive forwards of the past 20 years?"



No he isnt. I could name a number of guys from the 80''s and 90''s that were better defenders. He benefits by playing against PFs and Centers that don't have low post games. Not knocking his hustle but I don't see him as a lock down guy as much as I see him as a good team defender. His individual D isn't as great as you keep portraying. Iggy is better one on one and so is Klay Thompson. Those are just two guys on his own team.

Tony Allen was better Leonard is better so is Avery Bradley. You are drastically over rating Green.

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Last edited by long time guy on Fri May 05, 2017 7:00 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2017 6:59 am 
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pittmike wrote:
I understand the argument for more three point shooting and also get "some" of the reasons why play has changed since the early 90's. Still though I cannot grasp why it is completely impossible for teams to see that there still can be a place for a Kareem type player.



I agree and I still believe that is the best style to play. Game should still played inside out. There aren't that many good low post players for whatever reason and because that they can get away with small ball garbage.

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PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2017 7:05 am 
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long time guy wrote:
pittmike wrote:
I understand the argument for more three point shooting and also get "some" of the reasons why play has changed since the early 90's. Still though I cannot grasp why it is completely impossible for teams to see that there still can be a place for a Kareem type player.



I agree and I still believe that is the best style to play. Game should still played inside out. There aren't that many good low post players for whatever reason and because that they can get away with small ball garbage.


It is hard to find as I have little time for the research project but his skyhook had to be close to 60% FGP.

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PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2017 7:16 am 
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pittmike wrote:
long time guy wrote:
pittmike wrote:
I understand the argument for more three point shooting and also get "some" of the reasons why play has changed since the early 90's. Still though I cannot grasp why it is completely impossible for teams to see that there still can be a place for a Kareem type player.



I agree and I still believe that is the best style to play. Game should still played inside out. There aren't that many good low post players for whatever reason and because that they can get away with small ball garbage.


It is hard to find as I have little time for the research project but his skyhook had to be close to 60% FGP.


Because all the future Kareems and McHales are fantasizing about being the star of their own dunk highlights. Here's what future NBA players are doing nowadays:

Image

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PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2017 10:32 am 
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long time guy wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
Put Draymond in any era of NBA basketball and he's a top 5 defensive player in the league.

Yeah, he might not be able to guard Shaq but what the fuck, nobody could. Goebert isn't an offensive player. Draymond would just destroy him one on one on the block.

You're thinking about height too much. Draymond is incredibly strong, and has textbook footwork and hands, and length superior to his height. And yes, of course he's a shot blocker. This is exactly what I'm talking about when I say everyone on here underrates him. It's outrageous to suggest any 7 footer should be able to score on him.

I can see why people would say "why don't the Wizards post up on the 5 foot 9 guy?". It's insane to suggest "Why doesn't Utah post up the DPOY and one of the best defensive forwards of the past 20 years?"



No he isnt. I could name a number of guys from the 80''s and 90''s that were better defenders. He benefits by playing against PFs and Centers that don't have low post games. Not knocking his hustle but I don't see him as a lock down guy as much as I see him as a good team defender. His individual D isn't as great as you keep portraying. Iggy is better one on one and so is Klay Thompson. Those are just two guys on his own team.

Tony Allen was better Leonard is better so is Avery Bradley. You are drastically over rating Green.

:lol:

I'm almost positive Klay and Iggy themselves would disagree with this. Kawhi and Tony Allen from five years ago are the only players you named who might be better. And the 80's weren't 20 years ago old man. :lol:

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PostPosted: Sat May 06, 2017 9:30 pm 
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It's almost laughable how unskilled a number of modern day "elite" centers are. Watching Jazz Warriors. Gobert can't score unless it's an alley oop play.

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PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2017 4:32 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
Put Draymond in any era of NBA basketball and he's a top 5 defensive player in the league.

Yeah, he might not be able to guard Shaq but what the fuck, nobody could. Goebert isn't an offensive player. Draymond would just destroy him one on one on the block.

You're thinking about height too much. Draymond is incredibly strong, and has textbook footwork and hands, and length superior to his height. And yes, of course he's a shot blocker. This is exactly what I'm talking about when I say everyone on here underrates him. It's outrageous to suggest any 7 footer should be able to score on him.

I can see why people would say "why don't the Wizards post up on the 5 foot 9 guy?". It's insane to suggest "Why doesn't Utah post up the DPOY and one of the best defensive forwards of the past 20 years?"

Really a top 5 in the Jordan.Pippen,Payton. Hakeem, & Rodman era ?

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PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2017 5:21 pm 
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Really

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PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2017 5:23 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
Really


I disagree

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PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2017 5:24 pm 
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Who is Draymond better than out of those 5 defenders?

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PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2017 5:27 pm 
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RFDC wrote:
Who is Draymond better than out of those 5 defenders?

Payton. He's much more versatile. Probably Hakeem too.

If you guys want to say Draymond is overrated because he sucks on offense I disagree but fine. It's crazy though that so many of you act like he's overrated defensively. Zeph posted some of the advanced stuff but he's clearly building an all time great defensive resume once he adds DPOY this year.

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PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2017 5:31 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
RFDC wrote:
Who is Draymond better than out of those 5 defenders?

Payton. He's much more versatile. Probably Hakeem too.

If you guys want to say Draymond is overrated because he sucks on offense I disagree but fine. It's crazy though that so many of you act like he's overrated defensively. Zeph posted some of the advanced stuff but he's clearly building an all time great defensive resume once he adds DPOY this year.

I am not saying he is overrated on D, but that is a pretty high bar to get over to say he is better than 2 of those defenders. We are talking 5 of the all time greats in the league.

I am not willing to put him ahead of any of those guys. He is great on D, but not that great...at least not yet.

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PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2017 5:31 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
RFDC wrote:
Who is Draymond better than out of those 5 defenders?

Payton. He's much more versatile. Probably Hakeem too.

If you guys want to say Draymond is overrated because he sucks on offense I disagree but fine. It's crazy though that so many of you act like he's overrated defensively. Zeph posted some of the advanced stuff but he's clearly building an all time great defensive resume once he adds DPOY this year.


Draymond Green is legit but better than Hakeem on defense? :lol: Hakeem emasculated David Robinson, Ewing, Shaq, etc. Green's toughest competition is probably Blake Griffin, whose major accomplishment is jumping over a mid-size sedan.

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PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2017 5:31 pm 
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RFDC wrote:
Who is Draymond better than out of those 5 defenders?

I gave up discussing stuff here .because to get peoples attention you have to say stuff like shut up and you're a moron...I put my 5 out there and he thinks Green is better than 2 :roll:

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PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2017 5:34 pm 
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veganfan21 wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
RFDC wrote:
Who is Draymond better than out of those 5 defenders?

Payton. He's much more versatile. Probably Hakeem too.

If you guys want to say Draymond is overrated because he sucks on offense I disagree but fine. It's crazy though that so many of you act like he's overrated defensively. Zeph posted some of the advanced stuff but he's clearly building an all time great defensive resume once he adds DPOY this year.


Draymond Green is legit but better than Hakeem on defense? :lol: Hakeem emasculated David Robinson, Ewing, Shaq, etc. Green's toughest competition is probably Blake Griffin, whose major accomplishment is jumping over a mid-size sedan.

That is a good point. Who exactly does Green shut down in the league?

The rest of those 5 guys shut people down and in an era where there are a lot of good players.

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PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2017 5:35 pm 
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veganfan21 wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
RFDC wrote:
Who is Draymond better than out of those 5 defenders?

Payton. He's much more versatile. Probably Hakeem too.

If you guys want to say Draymond is overrated because he sucks on offense I disagree but fine. It's crazy though that so many of you act like he's overrated defensively. Zeph posted some of the advanced stuff but he's clearly building an all time great defensive resume once he adds DPOY this year.


Draymond Green is legit but better than Hakeem on defense? :lol: Hakeem emasculated David Robinson, Ewing, Shaq, etc. Green's toughest competition is probably Blake Griffin, whose major accomplishment is jumping over a mid-size sedan.

Green's toughest competition is LeBron James, a better player than any of the ones you just mentioned. And as Zeph pointed out, Draymond was great against him.

it's also a little unfair to compare these all time greats with a full body of work to a guy in his fourth or fifth year or whatever it is. I'm pretty sure when Draymond retires he will have a defensive resume and body of work that stacks up against any of those five guys.

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PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2017 5:36 pm 
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RFDC wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
RFDC wrote:
Who is Draymond better than out of those 5 defenders?

Payton. He's much more versatile. Probably Hakeem too.

If you guys want to say Draymond is overrated because he sucks on offense I disagree but fine. It's crazy though that so many of you act like he's overrated defensively. Zeph posted some of the advanced stuff but he's clearly building an all time great defensive resume once he adds DPOY this year.


Draymond Green is legit but better than Hakeem on defense? :lol: Hakeem emasculated David Robinson, Ewing, Shaq, etc. Green's toughest competition is probably Blake Griffin, whose major accomplishment is jumping over a mid-size sedan.

That is a good point. Who exactly does Green shut down in the league?

Everybody he guards.

And this era is filled with good players as well.

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PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2017 5:36 pm 
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long time guy wrote:
It's almost laughable how unskilled a number of modern day "elite" centers are. Watching Jazz Warriors. Gobert can't score unless it's an alley oop play.


Yep. Alonzo Mourning would be the best big man in the game both ways today. #sad!

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PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2017 5:37 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
RFDC wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
RFDC wrote:
Who is Draymond better than out of those 5 defenders?

Payton. He's much more versatile. Probably Hakeem too.

If you guys want to say Draymond is overrated because he sucks on offense I disagree but fine. It's crazy though that so many of you act like he's overrated defensively. Zeph posted some of the advanced stuff but he's clearly building an all time great defensive resume once he adds DPOY this year.


Draymond Green is legit but better than Hakeem on defense? :lol: Hakeem emasculated David Robinson, Ewing, Shaq, etc. Green's toughest competition is probably Blake Griffin, whose major accomplishment is jumping over a mid-size sedan.

That is a good point. Who exactly does Green shut down in the league?

Everybody he guards.

And this era is filled with good players as well.


Not big men.

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PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2017 5:38 pm 
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leashyourkids wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
RFDC wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
RFDC wrote:
Who is Draymond better than out of those 5 defenders?

Payton. He's much more versatile. Probably Hakeem too.

If you guys want to say Draymond is overrated because he sucks on offense I disagree but fine. It's crazy though that so many of you act like he's overrated defensively. Zeph posted some of the advanced stuff but he's clearly building an all time great defensive resume once he adds DPOY this year.


Draymond Green is legit but better than Hakeem on defense? :lol: Hakeem emasculated David Robinson, Ewing, Shaq, etc. Green's toughest competition is probably Blake Griffin, whose major accomplishment is jumping over a mid-size sedan.

That is a good point. Who exactly does Green shut down in the league?

Everybody he guards.

And this era is filled with good players as well.


Not big men.

But way better guards and forwards. It's just a different style of game now.

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PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2017 5:40 pm 
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Maybe, but if a team could find a big man who was dominant, it would be a huge game changer. It's a market inefficiency, if you will.

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PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2017 5:42 pm 
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leashyourkids wrote:
Maybe, but if a team could find a big man who was dominant, it would be a huge game changer. It's a market inefficiency, if you will.

I don't think so. It's hard to find a guy who can put up much better numbers than Anthony Davis has. Hasn't helped his team a whole lot. You need great guard play to compete today.

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PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2017 5:42 pm 
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So you think Draymond could check the big men from that era as well as Rodman, Hakeem? No way in the world

Payton, Jordan, and Pippen could do just fine playing D in todays league.

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PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2017 5:43 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
Maybe, but if a team could find a big man who was dominant, it would be a huge game changer. It's a market inefficiency, if you will.

I don't think so. It's hard to find a guy who can put up much better numbers than Anthony Davis has. Hasn't helped his team a whole lot. You need great guard play to compete today.

I just cannot believe some of the things I read around here. I am starting to feel like Walt

So if a team had Hakeem in todays NBA he would not help his team be really good?

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PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2017 5:44 pm 
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RFDC wrote:
So you think Draymond could check the big men from that era as well as Rodman, Hakeem? No way in the world

Payton, Jordan, and Pippen could do just fine playing D in todays league.

Doing just fine and being a top 2 defensive player two years in a row is not the same thing. So hakeem would've been better at guarding centers? Ok. Draymond would be better at guarding every other position on the floor.

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PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2017 5:45 pm 
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pizza_Place: Lou Malnatis
RFDC wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
Maybe, but if a team could find a big man who was dominant, it would be a huge game changer. It's a market inefficiency, if you will.

I don't think so. It's hard to find a guy who can put up much better numbers than Anthony Davis has. Hasn't helped his team a whole lot. You need great guard play to compete today.

I just cannot believe some of the things I read around here. I am starting to feel like Walt

So if a team had Hakeem in todays NBA he would not help his team be really good?

Of course he would help. Anthony Davis helps his team. Hakeem's team would not be really good if you dropped him in his prime to replace Anthony Davis, no.

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