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The difference between Jordan and "the others"
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Author:  Joe Orr Road Rod [ Wed Jun 14, 2017 4:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The difference between Jordan and "the others"

FavreFan wrote:
He's obviously a vastly superior defender and rebounder, much better shooter, obviously a more explosive athlete. Ball handling and passing ability don't favor Cousy as much as they would need to in order to make up for all the other facets that favor Pippen. It's really not close.



:lol: How is it obvious? Anyway, they're different types of players. Don't make that argument unless you're willing to accept that Wilt was bigger, stronger, scored as much, passed as well, blocked more shots, defended the post better, and rebounded far more than Jordan.

Author:  Joe Orr Road Rod [ Wed Jun 14, 2017 4:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The difference between Jordan and "the others"

leashyourkids wrote:
OMG. Vince Carter was so bad on defense, it shouldn't even be discussed. I just threw up a little.



If he played an 80 game schedule and guarded Pippen every game with Pippen guarding him, who do you think would have the higher average?

Author:  veganfan21 [ Wed Jun 14, 2017 4:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The difference between Jordan and "the others"

Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
OMG. Vince Carter was so bad on defense, it shouldn't even be discussed. I just threw up a little.



If he played an 80 game schedule and guarded Pippen every game with Pippen guarding him, who do you think would have the higher average?


VC could be contained. Pippen would get the better of that matchup. VC would outscore Pippen, but that's because he'd go 9-27 with seven free throw attempts on the side.

Author:  Joe Orr Road Rod [ Wed Jun 14, 2017 5:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The difference between Jordan and "the others"

veganfan21 wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
OMG. Vince Carter was so bad on defense, it shouldn't even be discussed. I just threw up a little.



If he played an 80 game schedule and guarded Pippen every game with Pippen guarding him, who do you think would have the higher average?


VC could be contained. Pippen would get the better of that matchup. VC would outscore Pippen, but that's because he'd go 9-27 with seven free throw attempts on the side.



So, like his actual career, it comes down to whether Scottie would have Jordan to put the points on the board.

Author:  FavreFan [ Wed Jun 14, 2017 5:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The difference between Jordan and "the others"

Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
He's obviously a vastly superior defender and rebounder, much better shooter, obviously a more explosive athlete. Ball handling and passing ability don't favor Cousy as much as they would need to in order to make up for all the other facets that favor Pippen. It's really not close.



:lol: How is it obvious? Anyway, they're different types of players. Don't make that argument unless you're willing to accept that Wilt was bigger, stronger, scored as much, passed as well, blocked more shots, defended the post better, and rebounded far more than Jordan.

Wilt didn't pass as well as Jordan though, and if you adjust by minute and possession for a more accurate idea, Jordan was clearly the superior scorer. Jordan's perimeter defense was far better and overall he was better defensively. Oh yeah, and Jordan didn't lose constantly.

Author:  FavreFan [ Wed Jun 14, 2017 5:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The difference between Jordan and "the others"

Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
OMG. Vince Carter was so bad on defense, it shouldn't even be discussed. I just threw up a little.



If he played an 80 game schedule and guarded Pippen every game with Pippen guarding him, who do you think would have the higher average?


VC could be contained. Pippen would get the better of that matchup. VC would outscore Pippen, but that's because he'd go 9-27 with seven free throw attempts on the side.



So, like his actual career, it comes down to whether Scottie would have Jordan to put the points on the board.

No, it wouldn't. If you gave them comparable teammates Pippen's team would dominate. He could score well enough to be the main guy and Vince Carter's stats would be atrocious if Pippen guarded him every minute of his career.

Author:  Joe Orr Road Rod [ Wed Jun 14, 2017 5:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The difference between Jordan and "the others"

FavreFan wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
He's obviously a vastly superior defender and rebounder, much better shooter, obviously a more explosive athlete. Ball handling and passing ability don't favor Cousy as much as they would need to in order to make up for all the other facets that favor Pippen. It's really not close.



:lol: How is it obvious? Anyway, they're different types of players. Don't make that argument unless you're willing to accept that Wilt was bigger, stronger, scored as much, passed as well, blocked more shots, defended the post better, and rebounded far more than Jordan.

Wilt didn't pass as well as Jordan though, and if you adjust by minute and possession for a more accurate idea, Jordan was clearly the superior scorer. Jordan's perimeter defense was far better and overall he was better defensively. Oh yeah, and Jordan didn't lose constantly.



Again, they played different positions, but Wilt led the league in assists. That's something that would be unimaginable for Jordan. I don't know what kind of perimeter defense Wilt might have played because he was guarding a Hall of Fame center in most games he played. And now we're back to the assigning of the rings.

Author:  Joe Orr Road Rod [ Wed Jun 14, 2017 5:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The difference between Jordan and "the others"

FavreFan wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
OMG. Vince Carter was so bad on defense, it shouldn't even be discussed. I just threw up a little.



If he played an 80 game schedule and guarded Pippen every game with Pippen guarding him, who do you think would have the higher average?


VC could be contained. Pippen would get the better of that matchup. VC would outscore Pippen, but that's because he'd go 9-27 with seven free throw attempts on the side.



So, like his actual career, it comes down to whether Scottie would have Jordan to put the points on the board.

No, it wouldn't. If you gave them comparable teammates Pippen's team would dominate. He could score well enough to be the main guy and Vince Carter's stats would be atrocious if Pippen guarded him every minute of his career.


I don't believe that's true. If you gave each guy four Randy Browns I think Carter would win most of the time. And if you were picking teams on the blacktop you'd be crazy to take Pippen over Carter.

Author:  FavreFan [ Wed Jun 14, 2017 5:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The difference between Jordan and "the others"

It's not the assigning of rings. It's simply the acknowledgement that Pippen and Jordan have six of them and in a game where that's the only objective, it's clearly pertinent information. Not sure why that bothers you.

Author:  leashyourkids [ Wed Jun 14, 2017 5:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The difference between Jordan and "the others"

Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
He's obviously a vastly superior defender and rebounder, much better shooter, obviously a more explosive athlete. Ball handling and passing ability don't favor Cousy as much as they would need to in order to make up for all the other facets that favor Pippen. It's really not close.



:lol: How is it obvious? Anyway, they're different types of players. Don't make that argument unless you're willing to accept that Wilt was bigger, stronger, scored as much, passed as well, blocked more shots, defended the post better, and rebounded far more than Jordan.

Wilt didn't pass as well as Jordan though, and if you adjust by minute and possession for a more accurate idea, Jordan was clearly the superior scorer. Jordan's perimeter defense was far better and overall he was better defensively. Oh yeah, and Jordan didn't lose constantly.



Again, they played different positions, but Wilt led the league in assists. That's something that would be unimaginable for Jordan. I don't know what kind of perimeter defense Wilt might have played because he was guarding a Hall of Fame center in most games he played. And now we're back to the assigning of the rings.


Against a bunch of tiny, unathletic white guys.

Author:  FavreFan [ Wed Jun 14, 2017 5:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The difference between Jordan and "the others"

Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
OMG. Vince Carter was so bad on defense, it shouldn't even be discussed. I just threw up a little.



If he played an 80 game schedule and guarded Pippen every game with Pippen guarding him, who do you think would have the higher average?


VC could be contained. Pippen would get the better of that matchup. VC would outscore Pippen, but that's because he'd go 9-27 with seven free throw attempts on the side.



So, like his actual career, it comes down to whether Scottie would have Jordan to put the points on the board.

No, it wouldn't. If you gave them comparable teammates Pippen's team would dominate. He could score well enough to be the main guy and Vince Carter's stats would be atrocious if Pippen guarded him every minute of his career.


I don't believe that's true. If you gave each guy four Randy Browns I think Carter would win most of the time. And if you were picking teams on the blacktop you'd be crazy to take Pippen over Carter.

Yeah I think this is all wrong. Agree to disagree I guess.

Author:  Joe Orr Road Rod [ Wed Jun 14, 2017 5:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The difference between Jordan and "the others"

leashyourkids wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
He's obviously a vastly superior defender and rebounder, much better shooter, obviously a more explosive athlete. Ball handling and passing ability don't favor Cousy as much as they would need to in order to make up for all the other facets that favor Pippen. It's really not close.



:lol: How is it obvious? Anyway, they're different types of players. Don't make that argument unless you're willing to accept that Wilt was bigger, stronger, scored as much, passed as well, blocked more shots, defended the post better, and rebounded far more than Jordan.

Wilt didn't pass as well as Jordan though, and if you adjust by minute and possession for a more accurate idea, Jordan was clearly the superior scorer. Jordan's perimeter defense was far better and overall he was better defensively. Oh yeah, and Jordan didn't lose constantly.



Again, they played different positions, but Wilt led the league in assists. That's something that would be unimaginable for Jordan. I don't know what kind of perimeter defense Wilt might have played because he was guarding a Hall of Fame center in most games he played. And now we're back to the assigning of the rings.


Against a bunch of tiny, unathletic white guys.


:lol: If you're going to bait me, take a lesson from Nas and be less obvious.

Author:  veganfan21 [ Wed Jun 14, 2017 5:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The difference between Jordan and "the others"

With four Randy Browns I can assure you your team won't have any rings by the time it's all said and done.

Author:  Brick [ Wed Jun 14, 2017 5:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The difference between Jordan and "the others"

leashyourkids wrote:
Don't forget the talent pool today is probably 500 times larger than when Cousy played.

One major shift was the full time player from the time they were a child. You aren't going to be that good selling insurance in the off-season.

Author:  Joe Orr Road Rod [ Wed Jun 14, 2017 5:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The difference between Jordan and "the others"

veganfan21 wrote:
With four Randy Browns I can assure you your team won't have any rings by the time it's all said and done.



I'm not looking for a ring. Just looking to beat Scottie in the second round of the playoffs.

Author:  veganfan21 [ Wed Jun 14, 2017 5:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The difference between Jordan and "the others"

Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
With four Randy Browns I can assure you your team won't have any rings by the time it's all said and done.



I'm not looking for a ring. Just looking to beat Scottie in the second round of the playoffs.



Quote:
Bankrupt Former Chicago Bull Auctions Off Championship Rings
Three NBA championship rings belonging to former Bulls guard Randy Brown, who declared bankruptcy after being fired as a Sacramento Kings assistant coach, are up for auction at the order of a federal bankruptcy judge in Sacramento, WBBM Newsradio reports.

Brown’s 1996, 1997 and 1998 NBA championship rings are being sold by West Auctions of Woodland, Calif.

CLICK HERE for the full report.

https://newsone.com/165351/bankrupt-for ... hip-rings/

Author:  FavreFan [ Wed Jun 14, 2017 5:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The difference between Jordan and "the others"

Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
With four Randy Browns I can assure you your team won't have any rings by the time it's all said and done.



I'm not looking for a ring. Just looking to beat Scottie in the second round of the playoffs.

And you're choosing Vince as your guy to do it? :lol:

I wish you a lot more than luck my friend.

Author:  RFDC [ Wed Jun 14, 2017 5:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The difference between Jordan and "the others"

Just when I think I have read everything around here, I see a case that Kyrie is better than Iverson and Carter is better than Pippen?

Holy Hell. Some of you need to step away for awhile.

Author:  FavreFan [ Wed Jun 14, 2017 5:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The difference between Jordan and "the others"

RFDC wrote:
Just when I think I have read everything around here, I see a case that Kyrie is better than Iverson and Carter is better than Pippen?

Holy Hell. Some of you need to step away for awhile.

After tying all of Jorrs various nba opinions together I can only surmise that he thinks every 90's player was terrible except for Michael jordan, who was a good but not great player.

Author:  leashyourkids [ Wed Jun 14, 2017 5:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The difference between Jordan and "the others"

Eddy Curry would have averaged 40 a game in the sixties.

Author:  Joe Orr Road Rod [ Wed Jun 14, 2017 5:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The difference between Jordan and "the others"

Image

Author:  Joe Orr Road Rod [ Wed Jun 14, 2017 5:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The difference between Jordan and "the others"

leashyourkids wrote:
Eddy Curry would have averaged 40 a game in the sixties.



Better, but still too obvious.

Author:  RFDC [ Wed Jun 14, 2017 5:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The difference between Jordan and "the others"

FavreFan wrote:
RFDC wrote:
Just when I think I have read everything around here, I see a case that Kyrie is better than Iverson and Carter is better than Pippen?

Holy Hell. Some of you need to step away for awhile.

After tying all of Jorrs various nba opinions together I can only surmise that he thinks every 90's player was terrible except for Michael jordan, who was a good but not great player.

Sounds about right.

Author:  veganfan21 [ Wed Jun 14, 2017 5:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The difference between Jordan and "the others"

FavreFan wrote:
except for Michael jordan, who was a good but not great player.


Isiah Thomas wrote:
Agreed

Author:  leashyourkids [ Wed Jun 14, 2017 5:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The difference between Jordan and "the others"

FavreFan wrote:
RFDC wrote:
Just when I think I have read everything around here, I see a case that Kyrie is better than Iverson and Carter is better than Pippen?

Holy Hell. Some of you need to step away for awhile.

After tying all of Jorrs various nba opinions together I can only surmise that he thinks every 90's player was terrible except for Michael jordan, who was a good but not great player.


The best players have to be centers, but the best player ever is Magic Johnson.

Scottie Pippen was the best player of the second 3-peat, but he was not as good as Vince Carter.

Scottie Pippen needed Michael Jordan to score for him, and players who can score are generally better. But Scottie Pippen was better than MJ.

Michael Jordan might be the greatest player ever, but only because you liked him growing up.

Scoring is the most important stat, but Lebron is likely better than Jordan.

Wilt Chamberlain was a better passer than any modern guard.

If you think a modern player is better than a player from the '50s, it's because you think humans have evolved in the last few decades. That is the only reason.

Magic Johnson guarded all five positions and didn't shoot a push shot that looked like a teenage girl.

Author:  FavreFan [ Wed Jun 14, 2017 5:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The difference between Jordan and "the others"

Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Image

This is where I remind you that you think Magic Johnson is better than Michael jordan :lol:

Author:  veganfan21 [ Wed Jun 14, 2017 5:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The difference between Jordan and "the others"

FavreFan wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Image

This is where I remind you that you think Magic Johnson is better than Michael jordan :lol:


Magic did score a ton.

Author:  leashyourkids [ Wed Jun 14, 2017 5:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The difference between Jordan and "the others"

His scoring was AIDED by a good supporting cast.

Author:  veganfan21 [ Wed Jun 14, 2017 5:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The difference between Jordan and "the others"

leashyourkids wrote:
His scoring was AIDED by a good supporting cast.


His PER and WS was just all right but STI was through the roof.

Author:  FavreFan [ Wed Jun 14, 2017 5:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The difference between Jordan and "the others"

Eaglo Jeff wrote:
Yeah but he was a cancer in the 1981 locker room

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