You said the league isn't an indicator of future success. I agree. It's a bit random at times when it comes to who becomes a superstar, who doesn't, who turns out decent, etc. Just admit it - if you pick busts every year in the top 5 of the draft for four straight years, you're not going to fire yourself.

_________________
Successful calls:

Kyrie Irving will never win anything as a team's alpha: check
T.rubisky is a bust: check
Ben Simmons is a liability: check
The Fields Cult is dumb: double check

2013 CSFMB ROY

Your last sentence is a bizarre one but if someone picks busts in the top 5 for 4 straight years they are almost certainly a terrible drafter and will not get better.

But you're still wrong about this very bad argument you insist on making. For the 157th time, if all things were equal there wouldn't be such a stark constrast between the best and worst GMs. You're like Mike McD's girlfriend in Rounders insisting guys like Doyle Brunson and Phil Ivey are the luckiest guys in Vegas.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

What metric are you using to determine the "best and worst" GMs? This is about drafting only. I've already provided data from an exhaustive study on the topic. The study indicates that sheer luck plays a far greater role than many of us would like to admit, and that there is virtually no correlation between the intelligence of a GM and his draft record. I also provided the example of Jerry Angelo's draft record. I've got data on my side, you've got assertions.

_________________
Successful calls:

Kyrie Irving will never win anything as a team's alpha: check
T.rubisky is a bust: check
Ben Simmons is a liability: check
The Fields Cult is dumb: double check

2013 CSFMB ROY

I've provided my two examples of the best drafting GMs - RC Buford and Sam Presti.

You do not have data on your side. That article suggests that drafting is more luck than skill. I don't agree wth that but it's a fine position to take. Your opinion that I ridiculed was that drafting was LITERALLY 100% luck.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

I'd say that when it comes to drafting skill is required the later you draft. If you are drafting in the top 3 then not as much. If you look at what Ainge did with Tatum skill or lack thereof, is required to a certain extent. If Tatum turns out to be the best of the group then he saw something that no one else did. No one had him as the best player in the draft. With Porzingus it was skill also. It's easy to say oh yeah Porzingus now but not many people were saying it at the time.

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It'd be very easy to pick apart Presti and Buford's track records from many different angles. Doing so wouldn't suggest that they aren't as smart as you think they are, but that they're basically lucky as hell. First of all if you look at the entirety of their track records I am going to assume the hit/bust rate is 50 50, if not 40 60 bust/disappointment. That's just due to the inherent chance of the draft. Second of all, like I've said before and this is also something you haven't been able to counter, you can't credit Presti or Buford or whomever for Durant, Westbrook, Duncan, etc, making themselves available in the draft. If Presti picks second in 2007 and Durant decides to stay in school that year, then Presti is picking between Horford, Conley, Jeff Green, or Yi Jilian, etc. Same with his other picks. He got lucky. The GMs who had lottery picks in 2003 (Wade, LBJ, Bosh, Anthony, etc.) got lucky the class didn't look like the class of 2001 (Miller, Swift, Fizer, Miles, etc.). As a GM you can't control the class that declares every year, and that's why it's luck.

_________________
Successful calls:

Kyrie Irving will never win anything as a team's alpha: check
T.rubisky is a bust: check
Ben Simmons is a liability: check
The Fields Cult is dumb: double check

2013 CSFMB ROY

Then do it. And please account for all the necessary factors in that evaluation( performance of other player picked in same spots, strength of draft class in years their picks were good, record of GM's with similar length and tenure in the same period, etc, if it is so very easy.


This whole paragraph doesn't really mean anything. You're saying I'm not allowed to count Durant and Westbrook for Presti because in an alternate reality he wouldn't be able to draft them. Ok, I guess. In an alternate reality everything is different so let's maybe just focus on what actually happened, since it is so very easy to do so.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Not an alternate reality. Presti may have wanted Durant but he only got him because Portland didn't take him. Durant being available at no 2 did not happen through the actions of Presti. You're asking me to credit him for being fortunate Portland didn't take him. That's all I'm saying.

_________________
Successful calls:

Kyrie Irving will never win anything as a team's alpha: check
T.rubisky is a bust: check
Ben Simmons is a liability: check
The Fields Cult is dumb: double check

2013 CSFMB ROY

But again, none of this means anything, at all. You're simply saying that in an alternate universe where Presti didn't take Durant his record wouldn't be as good when it comes to drafting. I don't disagree with that. I just find it strange you think that's a positive argument for you.

Edit: It's very similar to those saying "Well, if Shaq wasn't 7 feet tall he wouldn't have been great." Ok, but he was. What's your point?

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Westbrook wasn't the slam dunk (no pun intended) that he's made out to be now. Most post draft draft niks considered him to be a reach. It would have been easier to pick Kevin Love.

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Not at all. I would never say that. I just can't credit GMs for lucking into stars like Durant or Wade or whatever. Trading up is a different story because that demonstrates active targeting. Otherwise in my book I don't care if a GM has picked four busts in a row - I just care about the thought process leading up to those picks. If that's sound then I'm satisfied with the GM provided other aspects of his job are also going good. Draft boards don't markedly differ from team to team (the NFl can be an exception based on the drafting for need thought process) so even if my guy picks a bust with the 3rd pick in the draft, I'm comforted in knowing that 95% of the rest of the league would have drafted the same guy if they were in my shoes.

_________________
Successful calls:

Kyrie Irving will never win anything as a team's alpha: check
T.rubisky is a bust: check
Ben Simmons is a liability: check
The Fields Cult is dumb: double check

2013 CSFMB ROY

I haven't drawn any conclusions on any rookies from summer league. Some things have stood out which could lead towards a conclusion one way or the other, but that's about the extent of it. Like I've always said, you need multiple years (at least 3) before you know for sure about any rookie.

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This one is real suspect. Neither Summer League nor Head to Head matchups matter in the big picture. Only John Hollinger does.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... TBKlNQdZBw

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Head to head matchups matter. It's one of the many ways Steph proved he was better than Kyrie.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Leave the 3B's in the box:

I expect a response from ltg saying Aldridge is wrong on the first two sentences of that tweet.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

What percentage of these summer leaguers will be on an NBA roster when the season starts? 30%?

_________________

That's pretty generous. I would guess less than 20%

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Might be slightly more. NBA is expanding its rosters from 15 to 17 next year. They have some crazy system with the G league. Formerly the D league.

_________________

You betcha.

3 things which suggest this was a "must" win for the Lakers:

1. Ball stated that he knew he had to step up because it's the "playoffs" .

2. Ball played the entire 2nd half.

3. Fans chant of Defense during the final 2 minutes of the game.


NBA Summer League action is "FAAANTASTIC"!


Ball looked good during the 2nd Half. Took the game over. After looking terrible on a couple of 3s he turned it on.

Still not sold but he showed something last night. Elite vision but I don't know about the other aspects just yet.

_________________

https://twitter.com/_MarcusD2_/status/885349753369841664
Denzel is like a coach on the floor

NBA Summer League action is "FAAANTASTIC"!

_________________
I'm going to bounce from the spot for awhile but I will be back at some point to argue with you about this hoops stuff again. Playoffs have been great this season. See ya up the road.

I'm out.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

THat elite vision is why I've been so high on him. His vision/passing is in the same class as Kidd, Magic, Bird, Stockten etc. He sees the game differently from everyone else. There are some great players in this draft, but no one possesses a skill that is at the same level as Ball's vision/passing. No one is even close.

There's a good chance he leads the league in assists as soon as this coming season. It will help that he will get a lot of minutes and it will also help that of all the top assist players he's the only one who is truly pass first, pass second, pass third and then maybe maybe look for his own shot 4th. I'd be surprised if he doesn't average double digit assists this year.

Last night was the best individual performance of any player in summer league, not just this year, but the history of summer league. First player in history to have over 30 and 10 in a game, throw in 8 boards, 5 steals and 2 blocks for good measure.

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well, to get all those assists a teammate actually has to hit a shot

True and the Lakers aren't exactly a good team, but the way Lonzo delivers the ball all you gotta do is be able to either make layups/dunks or hit wide open jumpers. Even the worst team in the league should have plenty of guys who can do that.

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He still doesn't shoot particularly well nor can he defend. He has one skill that is at Elite level as far as the NBA goes. He will have to add a little more to his game and of the guys on Philly only Polythress will be in the league. Brisco isn't an NBA player. He showed up last night though. Won't take that away from him.

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Here's something I've never said after one of your posts......

I agree with all of that.

No doubt he needs to improve his shooting, if only for the sake of keeping defenses honest so they don't play 10 feet off him and go under every screen.


Let me ask you this. At this point in his career, do you think he's a better or worse shooter than Kidd was? I remember Kidd struggling with the outside shot and I seem to recall defenses playing off him early in his career, but I could be wrong about that, it was 20 years ago and I've smoked a lot of weed.

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Ball looks awesome

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the world will always the world. your entire existence is defined by your response.

He shoots better than Simmons

_________________
I'm going to bounce from the spot for awhile but I will be back at some point to argue with you about this hoops stuff again. Playoffs have been great this season. See ya up the road.

I'm out.

Simmons is bigger better rebounder and and defender.

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