I'll need to know if both players are guarding the guy they're supposed to or they're switching off like cowards. I hear that's very important.

I’m going to be a Kyrie hater for a while but if I would probably take Kyrie over Butler unless I had someone else on my team that was a great scorer.

It's easier if you ascertain which one garnered more in a trade..

That's a horrible opinion to have. Context, GM abilities, market, timing, team needs, etc all affect trades. You can't look at them in a vacuum and say so and so is better because he got more in trade.

Yes you can it's easy. Ainge turned the trade for Butler. Paxson asked for less and he still turned it down.

Your value as a player is more often determined by what you bring in a trade. I'd rather base it on things like that rather which person has more rings or which person's team has the better record.

In this case Irving has been regarded as the better player at every stage of their career. Not even close.

Now he brought back more in trade. What else more is there. When they were on the same Olympic team Butler was a ninth man Irving was one of their better players.


Butler is a better defender but if that is as important as people here keep saying then guys like Harden Curry and Thomas would never finish at the top of MVP voting.

Jimmy Butler doesn't have one skill offensively that's better than Kyrie Irving. Not one.

I'm not arguing one way or the other regarding the 2 players, I'm just pointing out that using what they received in trade is an idiotic and completely inaccurate and flawed way to evaluate which player is better.

I could go into the myriad of reasons why (and I touched on many of them already), but they should all be very obvious to anyone with a working brain.

Boston passed on Butler and George this offseason because they knew they would sign Hayward. Everyone knows that. Boston tried to give the Bulls draft picks for Butler at the trade deadline but the Bulls literally insisted on getting guys that Boston needed for a playoff run.

If Kyrie is better than Butler or George it's not by much.

Ok hopefully your brain is working. Gms don't make trades based on market. That's dumb. A player may sign because of market Gms don't trade because of it. GM ability is also not a reliable metric because what the hell does it even mean? Koby Altman didn't get a better deal because of any great skill. That's dumb since no one knows if he is skilled. As far as timing that's dumb too since both were moved around the same time and Boston passed on Butler. When he finally was traded the Bulls didn't get much according to people here. People bashed Paxson and wrongfully presumed that he could have acquired a better player. I am using this particular interest because they were traded during the same off season.

The salaries and contract situation of each was similar too.

I'm not talking in general. I'm talking specifically these two. Can you do it in all cases no. In this case yes. General assumptions about trades don't apply in this situation.

[quote="long time






Is this a bit? No one can honestly be this stupid, right?


I don't think you understand what market means. The market means who is available etc. You don't think that makes a difference in terms of what people get in trades?

You don't think GM ability makes a difference? You think all GMs are equal and all get the same exact value for their players?

You really going to sit there with a straight face and say the timing was the same for both trades? One took place before the 2017 draft, one took place 2 months after. How is that "around the same time"?



Also, Boston had the most to offer of any team so any team that was able to unload a star to Boston was going to get the most back most likely. Boston had no interest in Butler for the reasons Nas listed as well as the reason that they didn't want to trade a 2017 pick. Kyrie wasn't even on the market at that time so wasn't an option. So Boston didn't want Butler but wanted Kyrie. I bet you think that is evidence that Kyrie is better than Butler since that's the kind of ignorant moron you are. Never mind the fact that Boston didn't want ANY FA SF since they were signing Hayward and also have Brown and now Tatum. But, they also have a 5'9 PG that is in line for a big contract who they don't want to sign. so they definitely were interested in getting a PG like Kyrie.

Those are just a few of the MANY factors that point out how its completely flawed to say player X is better than player Y based on what they got back in trade.

LTG what do you do for a living? I am honestly curious. I can't imagine you have any sort of job that requires a college education based on how stupid your thoughts are.

Savage

Ousmane Dembele is a better soccer player than Messi and Ronaldo because Barcelona paid a higher transfer fee for him than either of those two ever commanded.

Irving's market wasn't depressed because it happened at the perfect storm of the team with the most assets just happened to be desperate to get rid of their own star who played the exact same position, is 4 years older, smaller and in need of a big FA contract after the season.


Everything you just posted is beyond stupid and not worthy of further reply.


I think the masses will agree that I owned you in this debate.

You could've just said that Jimmy Butler is a much better player than Paul George based on LTGs method of evaluating trades. Afterall they were traded around the same time and even play the same position, but the Bulls got a much better return for Butler than the Pacers got for George.


Case closed, LTG believes that Butler is a much better player than George and anything he says to refute that will just paint him as a massive hypocrite.

Ousmane Dembele is a better soccer player than Messi and Ronaldo because Barcelona paid a higher transfer fee for him than either of those two ever commanded.

The Pacers allegedly turned down better trades for George than what they received. They also didn't want to trade George. The Bulls have actively been seeking to trade Butler and people here blamed Paxson for not acquiring more. Where were you when all this was going down? Where was all of this nuance then hypothetical Harry?

No player is ever better than any other player but you complain when Paxson passes on Gobert to select Snell? It's all relative remember. That is the sort of thinking that makes you think Gorgui Dieng can be the centerpiece in a trade for Irving.

In the end what I said he would command he commanded. Check the tape. While the marketeers speculated I got it right. It's a message board so it doesn't get you a ham sammich. It's still idiotic to continue arguing when there nothing else to discuss on this particular subject.

No one knew if Hayward would come