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 Post subject: Re: Lonzo: Year 1
PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 3:32 pm 
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shakes wrote:
Bagels wrote:
He did have a nice steal but of course Pope blew the wide open 3


I've become convinced this season that KCP misses shots on purpose when Lonzo passes to him. As for Brook Lopez, I don't think he misses shots on purpose, he just sucks ass. But KCP, I've had my eye on him for quite some time now.


How about the game for Lonzo last night? Another gem. 17pts on 6/13 shooting, 8 boards, 6 assists, 1 turnover, 2 steals and a block, not to mention a thunderous alley oop dunk when he was in the process of scoring 10 straight in the 3rd quarter. OVer his past 6 games his shooting has gone up to the point where he's now elevated his shooting from historically bad to just plain mediocre.

7th in the league in assists. leads his team in rebounding as PG. IN fact, leads every NBA guard in the league in rebounding. he's 23rd in the league in assists to turnvoers. Nearest rookie is Frank Mason who ranks 67th.

If Lonzo keeps developing he'll be right there in the ROY race. I personally feel that the ROY race should borrow from gymnastics and assign start values to every rookie's season. The fact is that Lonzo is the most hyped rookie since Lebron, he plays the hardest position in the NBA during a time when that position is flourishing with stars, the off court stuff with his family, the boos in every arena. There may not have been a rookie in the history of the league that has had a tougher start value to his season. What Lonzo is doing with the pressure on him has been nothing short of amazing. The poise he has shown on the court is something no 20 year old should possess.

Comparing Lonzo to other rookies who have it much easier isn't really fair.

:lol:

He literally has zero chance of beating Simmons for ROY, barring injury. They are on different planets when it comes to talent.

Donovan Mitchell would also be WAY ahead of Lonzo right now. Kuzma would still be ahead.

He’s been good but like I said before, his best games are roughly equivalent to Simmons worst games. It’s no longer worth trying to compare them.

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 Post subject: Re: Lonzo: Year 1
PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 4:04 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
shakes wrote:
Bagels wrote:
He did have a nice steal but of course Pope blew the wide open 3


I've become convinced this season that KCP misses shots on purpose when Lonzo passes to him. As for Brook Lopez, I don't think he misses shots on purpose, he just sucks ass. But KCP, I've had my eye on him for quite some time now.


How about the game for Lonzo last night? Another gem. 17pts on 6/13 shooting, 8 boards, 6 assists, 1 turnover, 2 steals and a block, not to mention a thunderous alley oop dunk when he was in the process of scoring 10 straight in the 3rd quarter. OVer his past 6 games his shooting has gone up to the point where he's now elevated his shooting from historically bad to just plain mediocre.

7th in the league in assists. leads his team in rebounding as PG. IN fact, leads every NBA guard in the league in rebounding. he's 23rd in the league in assists to turnvoers. Nearest rookie is Frank Mason who ranks 67th.

If Lonzo keeps developing he'll be right there in the ROY race. I personally feel that the ROY race should borrow from gymnastics and assign start values to every rookie's season. The fact is that Lonzo is the most hyped rookie since Lebron, he plays the hardest position in the NBA during a time when that position is flourishing with stars, the off court stuff with his family, the boos in every arena. There may not have been a rookie in the history of the league that has had a tougher start value to his season. What Lonzo is doing with the pressure on him has been nothing short of amazing. The poise he has shown on the court is something no 20 year old should possess.

Comparing Lonzo to other rookies who have it much easier isn't really fair.

:lol:

He literally has zero chance of beating Simmons for ROY, barring injury. They are on different planets when it comes to talent.

Donovan Mitchell would also be WAY ahead of Lonzo right now. Kuzma would still be ahead.

He’s been good but like I said before, his best games are roughly equivalent to Simmons worst games. It’s no longer worth trying to compare them.


What I meant was that he'll be in the mix for top 3. I agree that he's not catching Simmons, but I don't agree that his best games are roughly equivalent to Simmons worse games. Simmons for instance had a much worse game than Lonzo last night. Lonzo's best game statistically this year was the triple double vs Milwaukee when he had 19 pts on 58%, 12 boards, 13 assists, 3 blocks, 3 steals, 4 turnovers. If Simmons did that everyone would be saying he had a great game, no one would call that one of his worse games.

And how is Mitchell WAY ahead of Lonzo at this point? The ONLY thing he does better than Lonzo is shoot. He's averaging 3 boards, 3 assists while lonzo is at 7 and 7 in those categories. Does 9 extra points per game make up for that? Not in my book.

And you call me hyperbolic?

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 Post subject: Re: Lonzo: Year 1
PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 4:07 pm 
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The best rookie of the guys drafted this year has been Tatum. I called it early and it has been proven true thus far. Ball isn't even the best rookie on his own team.

If the all rookie team were selected today he wouldn't be anywhere near 1st team. its not even an even playing field either. He had by far the best setup to succeed and he isn't.

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 Post subject: Re: Lonzo: Year 1
PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 4:23 pm 
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shakes wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
shakes wrote:
Bagels wrote:
He did have a nice steal but of course Pope blew the wide open 3


I've become convinced this season that KCP misses shots on purpose when Lonzo passes to him. As for Brook Lopez, I don't think he misses shots on purpose, he just sucks ass. But KCP, I've had my eye on him for quite some time now.


How about the game for Lonzo last night? Another gem. 17pts on 6/13 shooting, 8 boards, 6 assists, 1 turnover, 2 steals and a block, not to mention a thunderous alley oop dunk when he was in the process of scoring 10 straight in the 3rd quarter. OVer his past 6 games his shooting has gone up to the point where he's now elevated his shooting from historically bad to just plain mediocre.

7th in the league in assists. leads his team in rebounding as PG. IN fact, leads every NBA guard in the league in rebounding. he's 23rd in the league in assists to turnvoers. Nearest rookie is Frank Mason who ranks 67th.

If Lonzo keeps developing he'll be right there in the ROY race. I personally feel that the ROY race should borrow from gymnastics and assign start values to every rookie's season. The fact is that Lonzo is the most hyped rookie since Lebron, he plays the hardest position in the NBA during a time when that position is flourishing with stars, the off court stuff with his family, the boos in every arena. There may not have been a rookie in the history of the league that has had a tougher start value to his season. What Lonzo is doing with the pressure on him has been nothing short of amazing. The poise he has shown on the court is something no 20 year old should possess.

Comparing Lonzo to other rookies who have it much easier isn't really fair.

:lol:

He literally has zero chance of beating Simmons for ROY, barring injury. They are on different planets when it comes to talent.

Donovan Mitchell would also be WAY ahead of Lonzo right now. Kuzma would still be ahead.

He’s been good but like I said before, his best games are roughly equivalent to Simmons worst games. It’s no longer worth trying to compare them.


What I meant was that he'll be in the mix for top 3. I agree that he's not catching Simmons, but I don't agree that his best games are roughly equivalent to Simmons worse games. Simmons for instance had a much worse game than Lonzo last night. Lonzo's best game statistically this year was the triple double vs Milwaukee when he had 19 pts on 58%, 12 boards, 13 assists, 3 blocks, 3 steals, 4 turnovers. If Simmons did that everyone would be saying he had a great game, no one would call that one of his worse games.

And how is Mitchell WAY ahead of Lonzo at this point? The ONLY thing he does better than Lonzo is shoot. He's averaging 3 boards, 3 assists while lonzo is at 7 and 7 in those categories. Does 9 extra points per game make up for that? Not in my book.

And you call me hyperbolic?

Yes, I call you hyperbolic. Lonzo isn’t that good. He’s ok. His best attribute is still his defense, which is a problem. I like him and think he will be a good player, as I’ve said many times, but so far he hasn’t been nearly as good as you’re saying.

Also, 9 extra points, WAY better TS%, higher PER, lower turnover %, etc. We can debate the semantics of “way ahead” but it’s not really a debate which one would finish higher in ROY voting if it was held today.

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 Post subject: Re: Lonzo: Year 1
PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 4:24 pm 
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long time guy wrote:
The best rookie of the guys drafted this year has been Tatum. I called it early and it has been proven true thus far. Ball isn't even the best rookie on his own team.

If the all rookie team were selected today he wouldn't be anywhere near 1st team. its not even an even playing field either. He had by far the best setup to succeed and he isn't.

Mitchell is the best player drafted this year, so far.

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 Post subject: Re: Lonzo: Year 1
PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 4:31 pm 
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Markannen would also be ahead of Ball in ROY at this point. Maybe others besides Mitchell, Simmons, Kuzma, Markannen, etc but I'd have to think on it.

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 Post subject: Re: Lonzo: Year 1
PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 4:32 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
long time guy wrote:
The best rookie of the guys drafted this year has been Tatum. I called it early and it has been proven true thus far. Ball isn't even the best rookie on his own team.

If the all rookie team were selected today he wouldn't be anywhere near 1st team. its not even an even playing field either. He had by far the best setup to succeed and he isn't.

Mitchell is the best player drafted this year, so far.


No he isn't. If it weren't for Simmons Tatum would run away with th Rookie of the year award

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 Post subject: Re: Lonzo: Year 1
PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 4:32 pm 
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long time guy wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
long time guy wrote:
The best rookie of the guys drafted this year has been Tatum. I called it early and it has been proven true thus far. Ball isn't even the best rookie on his own team.

If the all rookie team were selected today he wouldn't be anywhere near 1st team. its not even an even playing field either. He had by far the best setup to succeed and he isn't.

Mitchell is the best player drafted this year, so far.


No he isn't. If it weren't for Simmons Tatum would run away with th Rookie of the year award

No. That’s just country dumb.

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 Post subject: Re: Lonzo: Year 1
PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 4:34 pm 
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IMU wrote:
Markannen would also be ahead of Ball in ROY at this point. Maybe others besides Mitchell, Simmons, Kuzma, Markannen, etc but I'd have to think on it.

Tatum

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 Post subject: Re: Lonzo: Year 1
PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 4:45 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
long time guy wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
long time guy wrote:
The best rookie of the guys drafted this year has been Tatum. I called it early and it has been proven true thus far. Ball isn't even the best rookie on his own team.

If the all rookie team were selected today he wouldn't be anywhere near 1st team. its not even an even playing field either. He had by far the best setup to succeed and he isn't.

Mitchell is the best player drafted this year, so far.


No he isn't. If it weren't for Simmons Tatum would run away with th Rookie of the year award

No. That’s just country dumb.



Mitchell didn't win rookie of the month in his own conf. yet he would be Rookie of the year. You don't think that sounds dumb. I do. I'm a Mitchell fan. He hasn't been as impressive as Tatum. Tatum has been good from day one. Check the numbers. The only Rookie that has been close has been Kuzma and even his stuff has tailed off some.

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 Post subject: Re: Lonzo: Year 1
PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 4:48 pm 
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long time guy wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
long time guy wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
long time guy wrote:
The best rookie of the guys drafted this year has been Tatum. I called it early and it has been proven true thus far. Ball isn't even the best rookie on his own team.

If the all rookie team were selected today he wouldn't be anywhere near 1st team. its not even an even playing field either. He had by far the best setup to succeed and he isn't.

Mitchell is the best player drafted this year, so far.


No he isn't. If it weren't for Simmons Tatum would run away with th Rookie of the year award

No. That’s just country dumb.



Mitchell didn't win rookie of the month in his own conf. yet he would be Rookie of the year. You don't think that sounds dumb. I do. I'm a Mitchell fan. He hasn't been as impressive as Tatum. Tatum has been good from day one. Check the numbers. The only Rookie that has been close has been Kuzma and even his stuff has tailed off some.

What numbers should we check? Your favorite stat is PPG, we can look at that. The advanced metrics that you hate that say Butler is a great player favor Tatum over Mitchell, but only slightly. Mitchell has the advantage in traditional statistics. You could make an argument Tatum has been better. You cannot make an argument that Tatum would run away with ROY right now if not for Simmons. There's nothing that supports that assertion.

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 Post subject: Re: Lonzo: Year 1
PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 4:56 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
long time guy wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
long time guy wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
long time guy wrote:
The best rookie of the guys drafted this year has been Tatum. I called it early and it has been proven true thus far. Ball isn't even the best rookie on his own team.

If the all rookie team were selected today he wouldn't be anywhere near 1st team. its not even an even playing field either. He had by far the best setup to succeed and he isn't.

Mitchell is the best player drafted this year, so far.


No he isn't. If it weren't for Simmons Tatum would run away with th Rookie of the year award

No. That’s just country dumb.



Mitchell didn't win rookie of the month in his own conf. yet he would be Rookie of the year. You don't think that sounds dumb. I do. I'm a Mitchell fan. He hasn't been as impressive as Tatum. Tatum has been good from day one. Check the numbers. The only Rookie that has been close has been Kuzma and even his stuff has tailed off some.

What numbers should we check? Your favorite stat is PPG, we can look at that. The advanced metrics that you hate that say Butler is a great player favor Tatum over Mitchell, but only slightly. Mitchell has the advantage in traditional statistics. You could make an argument Tatum has been better. You cannot make an argument that Tatum would run away with ROY right now if not for Simmons. There's nothing that supports that assertion.




Mitchell has had a good two run on a team that probably won't make the playoffs. Tatum has a much higher field goal percentage and has been much more efficient of a scorer. Mitchell is among the worst in terms of field goal percentage for players that take 15 or more shots per game. He is a volume chucker. I say this as a guy that likes him.

Tatum also rebounds well and plays good defense.

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 Post subject: Re: Lonzo: Year 1
PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 5:00 pm 
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long time guy wrote:
Mitchell has had a good two run on a team that probably won't make the playoffs. Tatum has a much higher field goal percentage and has been much more efficient of a scorer. Mitchell is among the worst in terms of field goal percentage for players that take 15 or more shots per game. He is a volume chucker. I say this as a guy that likes him.

Tatum also rebounds well and plays good defense.

You just explained why their stats are different. Mitchell has much more responsibility offensively and he's often the one at the end of the shot clock needing to force a shot up. He's a volume shooter simply because he has to be based on his talent and the dearth of offensive talent around him. If you think he's shooting 41% for the rest of the season or for his career going forward, well that can be the first thing we "keep a tally" on.

Mitchell will continue outplaying Tatum this year and for their careers. Put that on your tally list.

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 Post subject: Re: Lonzo: Year 1
PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 5:11 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
long time guy wrote:
Mitchell has had a good two run on a team that probably won't make the playoffs. Tatum has a much higher field goal percentage and has been much more efficient of a scorer. Mitchell is among the worst in terms of field goal percentage for players that take 15 or more shots per game. He is a volume chucker. I say this as a guy that likes him.

Tatum also rebounds well and plays good defense.

You just explained why their stats are different. Mitchell has much more responsibility offensively and he's often the one at the end of the shot clock needing to force a shot up. He's a volume shooter simply because he has to be based on his talent and the dearth of offensive talent around him. If you think he's shooting 41% for the rest of the season or for his career going forward, well that can be the first thing we "keep a tally" on.

Mitchell will continue outplaying Tatum this year and for their careers. Put that on your tally list.


When he doesn't you'll make up an excuse. If Tatum had the ball in his hands more and was allowed more freedom his percentage would go down a little and his avg would go way up. i'm a Mitchell fan but he hasn't been more impressive than Tatum.

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 Post subject: Re: Lonzo: Year 1
PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 5:13 pm 
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I smell a wager, who finishes 2nd in ROY. I think Tatum runs away with it.

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 Post subject: Re: Lonzo: Year 1
PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 12:13 am 
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The Lakers management has been notoriously horrible for several years now but its stunning to me that they aren't starting Kuzma full time by now. He's the best player on the team!

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 Post subject: Re: Lonzo: Year 1
PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 12:14 am 
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312player wrote:
I smell a wager, who finishes 2nd in ROY. I think Tatum runs away with it.

I'm fine with this. What's up LTG?

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 Post subject: Re: Lonzo: Year 1
PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 8:58 am 
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FavreFan wrote:
312player wrote:
I smell a wager, who finishes 2nd in ROY. I think Tatum runs away with it.

I'm fine with this. What's up LTG?


Let me ponder whether I want to win your money or not.

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 Post subject: Re: Lonzo: Year 1
PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 10:42 am 
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FavreFan wrote:
The Lakers management has been notoriously horrible for several years now but its stunning to me that they aren't starting Kuzma full time by now. He's the best player on the team!



No, he's not. best shooter for sure, but that's about it. Terrible defensively and needs to rebound more. There's more to games than just points. Also has been doing better coming off the bench than he did in his starting stints.


Lonzo had a really nice game last night. 13 pts on 5/11 shooting, 8 boards, 11 assists. His assist numbers are really impressive when you factor in that he plays for the worst shooting team in the NBA and also plays without a single post presence or guy who can run a pick and roll. Brook Lopez might just be the worst starting center in the NBA. Guy has had exactly one good game this season and that was vs his old team the Nets. He's putting up 13 pts on 44% shooting while averaging only 4 rebounds and 1 assist. And he plays no defense. Just an awful slow shitty basketball player. Any other center and Lonzo is averaging 9 assists instead of 7. Give him a legit shooting guard and he's in double digits.

Lebron had some really nice things to say about Lonzo after the game and the two shared a private conversation at center court after the game.

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 Post subject: Re: Lonzo: Year 1
PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 10:43 am 
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Lonzo, first 20 games:
.309 fg%, .245 3pt%, .429 ft%

Lonzo, last 7 games
.409 fg%, .323 3pt%, .667 ft%


Still not great obviously, but no longer historically bad. Now at least he is shooting like a typical rookie.

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 Post subject: Re: Lonzo: Year 1
PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 10:47 am 
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shakes wrote:
Lonzo, first 20 games:
.309 fg%, .245 3pt%, .429 ft%

Lonzo, last 7 games
.409 fg%, .323 3pt%, .667 ft%


Still not great obviously, but no longer historically bad. Now at least he is shooting like a typical rookie.



i haven't watched a whole lot of actual Lakers game this year, but watched some of the game last night and holy hell is his shot brutal. I mean, at first Kevin Martin came to mind, but his stroke makes Martin look like Steph Curry

also there were a few plays in the open court where he passed way too soon, like he isn't even thinking about penetrating and getting to the rim . I get that he's pass first and that's great but if there's a lane down the middle the size of a semi truck, you should probably probe that rather than passing to a wing player


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 Post subject: Re: Lonzo: Year 1
PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 1:18 am 
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 Post subject: Re: Lonzo: Year 1
PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 11:44 am 
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Another really nice game for Lonzo last night, 16 pts on 50% shooting, 6 boards, 6 assists, a steal and a couple blocks vs 2 turnovers. Had 7 pts in OT as well.

Got his layup blocked a few times in the game, needs to learn how to protect the ball better when going to the hole.

Shooting % continues to rise for Lonzo. Pretty cool to see the improvement in his game from even a few weeks ago.

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 Post subject: Re: Lonzo: Year 1
PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 3:20 pm 
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Over the past five years, only two players have finished inside the top 10 of an MVP vote averaging fewer than 15 points per game: Joakim Noah in 2013-14 (fourth) and Draymond Green in 2015-16 (seventh). And it is Green who represents an interesting parallel for Ball, insofar as his contributions are less quantifiable. In 2015-16, Green scored 20 points in only 17 of his 81 games. Yet few people, be they statheads or basketball mystics, would challenge his place on the tally. There's a collective appreciation that Green's feel for the game infuses the on-court principles that make the Warriors the Warriors. If Ball can't be the Lakers' Steph, they need him to be their Draymond -- if not in mood, then certainly in substance.


Interesting.

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 Post subject: Re: Lonzo: Year 1
PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 9:35 pm 
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I know LTG is gonna always hate on Lonzo but outside of him I doubt there is anyone still laughing at shakes and I for saying Lonzo is a good defensive player, especially for a rookie. I've gone back and forth with shakes on Lonzo but I don't think you can still make any type of case that he's not good on that end.

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 Post subject: Re: Lonzo: Year 1
PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 10:35 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
I know LTG is gonna always hate on Lonzo but outside of him I doubt there is anyone still laughing at shakes and I for saying Lonzo is a good defensive player, especially for a rookie. I've gone back and forth with shakes on Lonzo but I don't think you can still make any type of case that he's not good on that end.

Kuzma stole the show though. Just an awesome rookie year so far from him.

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 Post subject: Re: Lonzo: Year 1
PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 11:55 pm 
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312player wrote:
You gotta be shittin me FF, " pretty good defensively" absolutely not.

Good passer..yes
Good rebounder..yes

Awful shooter with no defense.

No defense

https://twitter.com/BleacherReport/stat ... 1845637120

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 Post subject: Re: Lonzo: Year 1
PostPosted: Fri Dec 22, 2017 11:43 pm 
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Lonzo 4-4 from 3 in the first half so far

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 Post subject: Re: Lonzo: Year 1
PostPosted: Sat Dec 23, 2017 6:36 am 
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FavreFan wrote:
Lonzo 4-4 from 3 in the first half so far



Pretty solid game


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 Post subject: Re: Lonzo: Year 1
PostPosted: Sat Dec 23, 2017 8:24 am 
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Won't live up to the hype. Poor man's Jason Kidd at best.

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