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 Post subject: Re: Lonzo: Year 1
PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 1:37 pm 
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long time guy wrote:
conns7901 wrote:
The only Lonzo apologist on this board seems to be Shakes.

I agree he seems like he will be a solid pro but not a game changer.


Where are the gifmeisters that are right there for you in other instances?



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 Post subject: Re: Lonzo: Year 1
PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 1:41 pm 
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:lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Lonzo: Year 1
PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 1:51 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
long time guy wrote:
conns7901 wrote:
The only Lonzo apologist on this board seems to be Shakes.

I agree he seems like he will be a solid pro but not a game changer.



He gets a pass on being an apologist though. It is difficult not to see that he isn't that great but why do idiotic comments go unabated? Has there been a sig? ?Where are the gifmeisters that are right there for you in other instances? Has anything been bumped in conjunction with the crap this often spewed with regard to Ball's performance? He has been given a pass.

You're simply not reading the thread. You're too interested in playing the victim. It's sad.

Shakes is far from the most liked poster here, and several people in this thread have criticized his Lonzo thoughts. Even I have! And I am probably the 2nd biggest Lonzo fan on the board behind shakes. I think he's already good and think he's going to be very good. And yet, I still repeatedly tell shakes he's too over the top in his love of Lonzo. If you don't believe me, simply ask him or read the thread. I won't even ask for an apology.



Again the proof is in the posting. What a person thinks and doesn't think isn't much relevant at this point. I could say it isn't about victimhood but you will still think what you think. He has gotten a pass. You even attempted to deflect with the extremely meek deflection pertaining to Carmelo Anthony at some point.

As far as you thinking he has been good or not good is besides the point. The numbers don't suggest that he has been good. Among rookies he hasn't been the best on his team. He isn't in the top 5 or Probably 10 in terms of most impressive. When you factor in other circumstances pertaining to him you can easily make the argument that he sucks. At best he has been mediocre

When a guy repeatedly comes on here expressing how great he is while the eye test and the stats suggests otherwise he deserves to be hammered if people are going to pontificate about integrity. There isn't any and people respond to post (as you are doing yet again) and not poster.
The overriding consensus for now is that people should pump the brakes as far as his greatness.


Just to reiterate the proof is in the posting. I don't care to hear about whether they like or dislike him. he has been provided with a pass and if he hasn't where is the evidence to the contrary? Not respectful dissent either. "assanine thoughts" type dissent. Where does it exist?

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 Post subject: Re: Lonzo: Year 1
PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 1:57 pm 
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If you know basketball you cannot make a case that he sucks. Sorry. You just can’t.

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 Post subject: Re: Lonzo: Year 1
PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 2:05 pm 
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shakes wrote:
Lonzo played well last night despite the usual bad shooting. Actually starting to get a little encouraged with the FG% as last night he continued to get to the rim at will, but didn't finish on at least 3 wide open bunnies. That's all confidence or lack of and will definitely improve once he starts to get more comfortable. He was 4/15...if he starts to make his easy layups his % will go up dramatically.

Other than the bad shooting, he played about as good of defense as one can play against Kyrie Irving. Definitely got burned for a couple layups, but also blocked his shot at least once and had one nice play where he followed up a Kyrie layup by grabbing the ball and going coast to coast for his own bucket. Also Kyrie shot 7/21 from the field.

Lonzo stuffed the stat sheet otherwise....5 boards, 6 assists, 2 TOs, 1 steal and 4 blocks.
Quote:


I must have missed FarveFan's oh some timely response to this little piece of B.S. Instead he chose the tried and true course of Carmelo Anthony bashing found on the same page (13) of this thread. The Victimhood con is just another way of deflecting also.



Stat stuffing? :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Last edited by long time guy on Wed Jan 10, 2018 2:13 pm, edited 7 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Lonzo: Year 1
PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 2:06 pm 
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Bagels wrote:
long time guy wrote:
conns7901 wrote:
The only Lonzo apologist on this board seems to be Shakes.

I agree he seems like he will be a solid pro but not a game changer.


Where are the gifmeisters that are right there for you in other instances?



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:lol: :lol: :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Lonzo: Year 1
PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 2:09 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
If you know basketball you cannot make a case that he sucks. Sorry. You just can’t.


If you know basketball then you can't make the case that he has been good either. Mediocre at best. He is about the 4th or 5th best player on a crappy team. The discrepancy between his offensive and defensive rating was the worst of all the guys that played regularly for the Lakers. This was until a few days ago. Nothing supports him being a good player at this point.

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 Post subject: Re: Lonzo: Year 1
PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 2:13 pm 
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long time guy wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
If you know basketball you cannot make a case that he sucks. Sorry. You just can’t.


If you know basketball then you can't make the case that he has been good either. Mediocre at best. He is about the 4th or 5th best player on a crappy team. The discrepancy between his offensive and defensive rating was the worst of all the guys that played regularly for the Lakers. This was until a few days ago. Nothing supports him being a good player at this point.

He's the 2nd best player on the team next to Kuzma. If you think Ingram is better than you don't care about anything other than inefficiently scoring 16 ppg. If you think Randle is better, it's probably best to just stop the conversation here.

The team is bad with him. They are the historically bad without him. Proof is in the pudding, not the posting, my friend.

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 Post subject: Re: Lonzo: Year 1
PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 2:18 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
long time guy wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
If you know basketball you cannot make a case that he sucks. Sorry. You just can’t.


If you know basketball then you can't make the case that he has been good either. Mediocre at best. He is about the 4th or 5th best player on a crappy team. The discrepancy between his offensive and defensive rating was the worst of all the guys that played regularly for the Lakers. This was until a few days ago. Nothing supports him being a good player at this point.

He's the 2nd best player on the team next to Kuzma. If you think Ingram is better than you don't care about anything other than inefficiently scoring 16 ppg. If you think Randle is better, it's probably best to just stop the conversation here.

The team is bad with him. They are the historically bad without him. Proof is in the pudding, not the posting, my friend.



Here we go with the "hypothetical" If again to deflect. The games he missed Lopez also missed. So did Caldwell Pope. They had to play guys that weren't in the regular rotation as a means of compensating. One of the guys has just been waived. It wasn't related just to Ball's absence but the Ball apologists unsurprisingly see it that way. In fact in some of the games they were playing teams to a standstill during the first and 3rd and being blown out during the 2nd and 4th. It isn't difficult to see why.


He also isn't the 2 best player on their team. That is crap and spin.


See how I just provided evidence of how guys get a pass around here? Not difficult to spot at this point

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 Post subject: Re: Lonzo: Year 1
PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 2:27 pm 
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There was was no hypothetical in my post. You’re losing it.

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 Post subject: Re: Lonzo: Year 1
PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 2:44 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
There was was no hypothetical in my post. You’re losing it.



The "If we are going to talk this guy then" is a hypothetical. He hasn't been better than Randle. He hasn't been better than Ingram either. Nor Lopez. The Numbers as well as the eye test suggest that he mostly sucks. I posted numbers which favorably compared him to Jerian Grant. You conveniently ignored him. "Liking him" is a choice. It doesn't mean that he is good. You discredit All NBA and All Rookie teams and consider them garbage. Saying a guy is "good" simply because you like him is far more of an assanine reason. There isn't much "credibility" in that.

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 Post subject: Re: Lonzo: Year 1
PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 3:39 pm 
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long time guy wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
There was was no hypothetical in my post. You’re losing it.



The "If we are going to talk this guy then" is a hypothetical. He hasn't been better than Randle. He hasn't been better than Ingram either. Nor Lopez. The Numbers as well as the eye test suggest that he mostly sucks. I posted numbers which favorably compared him to Jerian Grant. You conveniently ignored him. "Liking him" is a choice. It doesn't mean that he is good. You discredit All NBA and All Rookie teams and consider them garbage. Saying a guy is "good" simply because you like him is far more of an assanine reason. There isn't much "credibility" in that.

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 Post subject: Re: Lonzo: Year 1
PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 3:57 pm 
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https://www.basketball-reference.com/pl ... llo01.html

https://www.basketball-reference.com/pl ... tje02.html


Jerian Grant's Per 36 is actually better. Only stat i viewed.

No one thinks Grant that is good from what i can ascertain.

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 Post subject: Re: Lonzo: Year 1
PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 4:20 pm 
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IMU wrote:
Lonzo Ball:
29.5% FG, 23.1% 3P, 53.8% FT, 6.8 Rebounds, 7.3 Assists, 1.2 Steals, 1.0 Blocks, 2.5 Turnovers, 9.5 Points

Stats from a recent rookie PG considered to have a bust of a freshman season:
37.7% FG, 28.8% 3P, 61.0% FT, 4.5 Rebounds, 5.1 Assists, 2.1 Steals, 1.0 Blocks, 2.4 Turnovers, 7.9 Points

Who cares about who had what hype? The fact is that Lonzo Ball hasn't been impressing, even when you consider his rookie status. He has been okay at best. Maybe he will turn out pretty good. But right now he isn't exactly lighting it up.


I had it first.

I don't think Jerian Grant is that much worse than Lonzo Ball. Ball rebounds better. That's about it.

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 Post subject: Re: Lonzo: Year 1
PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 4:35 pm 
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Goddamn those shooting percentages for Lonzo are no bueno.

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 Post subject: Re: Lonzo: Year 1
PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 4:43 pm 
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Wanting to be a victim is the new thing. Some of the biggest assholes want to be a victim. It's tiring.

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 Post subject: Re: Lonzo: Year 1
PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 4:44 pm 
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IMU wrote:
IMU wrote:
Lonzo Ball:
29.5% FG, 23.1% 3P, 53.8% FT, 6.8 Rebounds, 7.3 Assists, 1.2 Steals, 1.0 Blocks, 2.5 Turnovers, 9.5 Points

Stats from a recent rookie PG considered to have a bust of a freshman season:
37.7% FG, 28.8% 3P, 61.0% FT, 4.5 Rebounds, 5.1 Assists, 2.1 Steals, 1.0 Blocks, 2.4 Turnovers, 7.9 Points

Who cares about who had what hype? The fact is that Lonzo Ball hasn't been impressing, even when you consider his rookie status. He has been okay at best. Maybe he will turn out pretty good. But right now he isn't exactly lighting it up.


I had it first.

I don't think Jerian Grant is that much worse than Lonzo Ball. Ball rebounds better. That's about it.



I actually posted it first. Check the tape.

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 Post subject: Re: Lonzo: Year 1
PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 4:44 pm 
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Jbi11s wrote:
Goddamn those shooting percentages for Lonzo are no bueno.

That was earlier in the year though. They have improved. Slightly.

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 Post subject: Re: Lonzo: Year 1
PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 4:45 pm 
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long time guy wrote:
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/balllo01.html

https://www.basketball-reference.com/pl ... tje02.html


Jerian Grant's Per 36 is actually better. Only stat i viewed.

No one thinks Grant that is good from what i can ascertain.

Some guys can only argue stats. Some of us watch the games.

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 Post subject: Re: Lonzo: Year 1
PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 4:46 pm 
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IMU wrote:
IMU wrote:
Lonzo Ball:
29.5% FG, 23.1% 3P, 53.8% FT, 6.8 Rebounds, 7.3 Assists, 1.2 Steals, 1.0 Blocks, 2.5 Turnovers, 9.5 Points

Stats from a recent rookie PG considered to have a bust of a freshman season:
37.7% FG, 28.8% 3P, 61.0% FT, 4.5 Rebounds, 5.1 Assists, 2.1 Steals, 1.0 Blocks, 2.4 Turnovers, 7.9 Points

Who cares about who had what hype? The fact is that Lonzo Ball hasn't been impressing, even when you consider his rookie status. He has been okay at best. Maybe he will turn out pretty good. But right now he isn't exactly lighting it up.


I had it first.

I don't think Jerian Grant is that much worse than Lonzo Ball. Ball rebounds better. That's about it.

Ball is a significantly better passer and defender. He’s a much better person player than Grant.

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 Post subject: Re: Lonzo: Year 1
PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 4:47 pm 
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Nas wrote:
Wanting to be a victim is the new thing. Some of the biggest assholes want to be a victim. It's tiring.


I think calling people victims simply for pointing out hypocrisies is the new thing. I never actually referenced myself at all yet each time you point out something where a person is completely full of shit they yell victim. It is actually only second to "fake news" as the second most reported thing on here.


There are obvious passes provided around here. I'm good with it but it doesn't mean that I have to ignore it. Some people probably wish it was ignored it appears.

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 Post subject: Re: Lonzo: Year 1
PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 4:52 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
IMU wrote:
IMU wrote:
Lonzo Ball:
29.5% FG, 23.1% 3P, 53.8% FT, 6.8 Rebounds, 7.3 Assists, 1.2 Steals, 1.0 Blocks, 2.5 Turnovers, 9.5 Points

Stats from a recent rookie PG considered to have a bust of a freshman season:
37.7% FG, 28.8% 3P, 61.0% FT, 4.5 Rebounds, 5.1 Assists, 2.1 Steals, 1.0 Blocks, 2.4 Turnovers, 7.9 Points

Who cares about who had what hype? The fact is that Lonzo Ball hasn't been impressing, even when you consider his rookie status. He has been okay at best. Maybe he will turn out pretty good. But right now he isn't exactly lighting it up.


I had it first.

I don't think Jerian Grant is that much worse than Lonzo Ball. Ball rebounds better. That's about it.

Ball is a significantly better passer and defender. He’s a much better person player than Grant.



Interesting how there is a reliance on the "eye test" whenever the numbers don't quite support it. Jerian Grant has superior numbers and you consider him to be a bum. If he is a bum then so is Ball.

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 Post subject: Re: Lonzo: Year 1
PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 4:58 pm 
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long time guy wrote:
Nas wrote:
Wanting to be a victim is the new thing. Some of the biggest assholes want to be a victim. It's tiring.


I think calling people victims simply for pointing out hypocrisies is the new thing. I never actually referenced myself at all yet each time you point out something where a person is completely full of shit they yell victim. It is actually only second to "fake news" as the second most reported thing on here.


There are obvious passes provided around here. I'm good with it but it doesn't mean that I have to ignore it. Some people probably wish it was ignored it appears.


Do you read your posts? You're an asshole like MANY here but you're ALWAYS crying about someone being unfair to you. The shit gets old. You're like the fucking president.

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 Post subject: Re: Lonzo: Year 1
PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 5:06 pm 
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Nas wrote:
long time guy wrote:
Nas wrote:
Wanting to be a victim is the new thing. Some of the biggest assholes want to be a victim. It's tiring.


I think calling people victims simply for pointing out hypocrisies is the new thing. I never actually referenced myself at all yet each time you point out something where a person is completely full of shit they yell victim. It is actually only second to "fake news" as the second most reported thing on here.


There are obvious passes provided around here. I'm good with it but it doesn't mean that I have to ignore it. Some people probably wish it was ignored it appears.


Do you read your posts? You're an asshole like MANY here but you're ALWAYS crying about someone being unfair to you. The shit gets old. You're like the fucking president.



I'm too old to whine. I just wondered why a guy constantly tells the world about the greatness (obviously wrong) of a player and there isn't any pushback for it. There are people that are full of shit. Rather than simply respond to the original post it quickly became about me. I never made it about at all. People sort of have a problem with the truth.


if I'm wrong provide evidence. Its simple the Ad hominem bullshit is what's old. i'm entitled to my opinion and if people don't like it tough. There has yet to be any evidence refuting my claims because they are factual.


If i'm wrong refute the point. Focusing on me only strengthens what I am saying. I'm too old to be a victim of anything. I also don't believe that anyone owes me shit.

When a guys first response is "I only met him once" I pretty much have my answer.


As long as I post here I will continue to call people on their bullshit. I could care less obviously if they like it or not.


Again if I am wrong then refute the point. If you only choose to focus on me then I will presume that my point is essentially valid.

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 Post subject: Re: Lonzo: Year 1
PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 5:23 pm 
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long time guy wrote:
If i'm wrong refute the point.

viewtopic.php?f=91&t=109091&start=330

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 Post subject: Re: Lonzo: Year 1
PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 5:30 pm 
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IMU wrote:
long time guy wrote:
If i'm wrong refute the point.

viewtopic.php?f=91&t=109091&start=330



If this were Elmhurst Steve he'd be getting his ass handed to him for saying the inane shit that has been posted in this thread. There is absolutely know doubt about it.

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 Post subject: Re: Lonzo: Year 1
PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 5:32 pm 
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long time guy wrote:
IMU wrote:
long time guy wrote:
If i'm wrong refute the point.

viewtopic.php?f=91&t=109091&start=330



If this were Elmhurst Steve he'd be getting his ass handed to him for saying the inane shit that has been posted in this thread. There is absolutely know doubt about it.

long time guy wrote:
Here we go with the "hypothetical" If again to deflect.

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 Post subject: Re: Lonzo: Year 1
PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 5:35 pm 
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long time guy wrote:
Nas wrote:
long time guy wrote:
Nas wrote:
Wanting to be a victim is the new thing. Some of the biggest assholes want to be a victim. It's tiring.


I think calling people victims simply for pointing out hypocrisies is the new thing. I never actually referenced myself at all yet each time you point out something where a person is completely full of shit they yell victim. It is actually only second to "fake news" as the second most reported thing on here.


There are obvious passes provided around here. I'm good with it but it doesn't mean that I have to ignore it. Some people probably wish it was ignored it appears.


Do you read your posts? You're an asshole like MANY here but you're ALWAYS crying about someone being unfair to you. The shit gets old. You're like the fucking president.



I'm too old to whine. I just wondered why a guy constantly tells the world about the greatness (obviously wrong) of a player and there isn't any pushback for it. There are people that are full of shit. Rather than simply respond to the original post it quickly became about me. I never made it about at all. People sort of have a problem with the truth.


if I'm wrong provide evidence. Its simple the Ad hominem bullshit is what's old. i'm entitled to my opinion and if people don't like it tough. There has yet to be any evidence refuting my claims because they are factual.


If i'm wrong refute the point. Focusing on me only strengthens what I am saying. I'm too old to be a victim of anything. I also don't believe that anyone owes me shit.

When a guys first response is "I only met him once" I pretty much have my answer.


As long as I post here I will continue to call people on their bullshit. I could care less obviously if they like it or not.


Again if I am wrong then refute the point. If you only choose to focus on me then I will presume that my point is essentially valid.


If this was the first time I wouldn't have said anything. If you're not being an asshole or settling a score you're almost always crying about how someone is treating you compared to the way they treat others. Who gives a shit? We're not 12.

You're entitled to your opinion and you can give it without constantly crying about unfairness. No one owes you shit. Yes some posters are assholes to you but is there a person here you haven't been an asshole to?

I hope you continue posting here. You're an active and opinionated poster. Be an asshole. Call people on their bullshit. Stop fucking crying though. Every opinionated person here take shit at times and move on. You hold onto every slight.

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 Post subject: Re: Lonzo: Year 1
PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 6:31 pm 
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Posts: 31948
Nas wrote:
long time guy wrote:
Nas wrote:
long time guy wrote:
Nas wrote:
Wanting to be a victim is the new thing. Some of the biggest assholes want to be a victim. It's tiring.


I think calling people victims simply for pointing out hypocrisies is the new thing. I never actually referenced myself at all yet each time you point out something where a person is completely full of shit they yell victim. It is actually only second to "fake news" as the second most reported thing on here.


There are obvious passes provided around here. I'm good with it but it doesn't mean that I have to ignore it. Some people probably wish it was ignored it appears.


Do you read your posts? You're an asshole like MANY here but you're ALWAYS crying about someone being unfair to you. The shit gets old. You're like the fucking president.



I'm too old to whine. I just wondered why a guy constantly tells the world about the greatness (obviously wrong) of a player and there isn't any pushback for it. There are people that are full of shit. Rather than simply respond to the original post it quickly became about me. I never made it about at all. People sort of have a problem with the truth.


if I'm wrong provide evidence. Its simple the Ad hominem bullshit is what's old. i'm entitled to my opinion and if people don't like it tough. There has yet to be any evidence refuting my claims because they are factual.


If i'm wrong refute the point. Focusing on me only strengthens what I am saying. I'm too old to be a victim of anything. I also don't believe that anyone owes me shit.

When a guys first response is "I only met him once" I pretty much have my answer.


As long as I post here I will continue to call people on their bullshit. I could care less obviously if they like it or not.


Again if I am wrong then refute the point. If you only choose to focus on me then I will presume that my point is essentially valid.


If this was the first time I wouldn't have said anything. If you're not being an asshole or settling a score you're almost always crying about how someone is treating you compared to the way they treat others. Who gives a shit? We're not 12.

You're entitled to your opinion and you can give it without constantly crying about unfairness. No one owes you shit. Yes some posters are assholes to you but is there a person here you haven't been an asshole to?

I hope you continue posting here. You're an active and opinionated poster. Be an asshole. Call people on their bullshit. Stop fucking crying though. Every opinionated person here take shit at times and move on. You hold onto every slight.


Truth hurts. I never personalized it and as i said before i'm too old to whine. I'm from the streets by trade and i tend to have an antennae for phony ass people.

You know when people are posting thoughts that really aren't their own. Ultimately it comes down to me. I like posting here but the bullshit frat boy shit is what's annoying to me. I'm past 12 too and its obvious that there is a handsoff thing here to a degree.

Your dime your dance floor so you can do with it as you like ultimately.


The generalized way that this particular post has been addressed further illustrates the point.


The assholery is reserved for certain people. Has nothing to do with me. I could name them but i dont seek to embarass them.

Phoniness is what bothers me. I will honor the 3 bets that i have and that will be about it.

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 Post subject: Re: Lonzo: Year 1
PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 7:21 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
long time guy wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
If you know basketball you cannot make a case that he sucks. Sorry. You just can’t.


If you know basketball then you can't make the case that he has been good either. Mediocre at best. He is about the 4th or 5th best player on a crappy team. The discrepancy between his offensive and defensive rating was the worst of all the guys that played regularly for the Lakers. This was until a few days ago. Nothing supports him being a good player at this point.

He's the 2nd best player on the team next to Kuzma. If you think Ingram is better than you don't care about anything other than inefficiently scoring 16 ppg. If you think Randle is better, it's probably best to just stop the conversation here.

The team is bad with him. They are the historically bad without him. Proof is in the pudding, not the posting, my friend.


The proof of the pudding is in the eating.

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