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Hatchetman
PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2019 2:49 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Nas wrote:
:lol: :lol: :lol: Of course LTG is right about this. So much blind rage prevents people from seeing it. Someone standing 16 feet from the basket isn't stretching anything.
Were Pete Maravich and Rick Mount elite outside shooters?

Is a stretch four a PF who stands 15 feet away from the rim?


It used to be for damn sure.

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RFDC
PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2019 3:00 pm 
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Nas wrote:
Pistol Pete would be lucky to have the same career as Doug McDermott. 8)

:lol:

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FavreFan
PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2019 3:05 pm 
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Hatchetman wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Nas wrote:
:lol: :lol: :lol: Of course LTG is right about this. So much blind rage prevents people from seeing it. Someone standing 16 feet from the basket isn't stretching anything.
Were Pete Maravich and Rick Mount elite outside shooters?

Is a stretch four a PF who stands 15 feet away from the rim?


It used to be for damn sure.

It didn’t use to exist, because a 15 foot jumper isn’t stretching the floor in any meaningful way, even in 1975.

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long time guy
PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2019 3:06 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
Hatchetman wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Nas wrote:
:lol: :lol: :lol: Of course LTG is right about this. So much blind rage prevents people from seeing it. Someone standing 16 feet from the basket isn't stretching anything.
Were Pete Maravich and Rick Mount elite outside shooters?

Is a stretch four a PF who stands 15 feet away from the rim?


It used to be for damn sure.

It didn’t use to exist, because a 15 foot jumper isn’t stretching the floor in any meaningful way, even in 1975.


Yep. It was a mid range jumper in 1975 and it is still a mid range jumper today. Or a simple jump shot.

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Brick
PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2019 3:08 pm 
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So who was the first elite shooter in the NBA?
Who was the first stretch 4?

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long time guy
PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2019 3:10 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
So who was the first elite shooter in the NBA?
Who was the first stretch 4?


Wasn't McAdoo. Nowitski wasn't the first but he is regarded as the guy that popularized it.

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Nardi
PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2019 3:16 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Nardi wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
You would think a student of the game like ltg would understand that the 3 point shot was a pretty terrible shot to take on a percentage basis when Bob McAdoo played. League averages were like 24 to 28%.

But for the INVENTOR of the stretch 4 it wouldn't be.

The line didn't even exist for half of his career.

Who is the inventor of it?

I'm not even sure the modern definition of stretch 4 is correct compared to back in the day. Who's to say that maybe just the act of pulling out the defensive 4 20 feet from the hoop because the offensive 4 can hit that shot is in fact "stretching". I don't think it is but an argument can be made that the defense just lost their main rebounder because he's out defending the perimeter. In which case,

Jerry Lucas is the 1st Stretch 4.
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Hatchetman
PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2019 3:23 pm 
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15-20 feet is huge.

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Douchebag
PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2019 5:47 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
So who was the first elite shooter in the NBA?

Reggie?

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Walt Williams Neck
PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2019 6:04 pm 
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Douchebag wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
So who was the first elite shooter in the NBA?

Reggie?

Jack Marin

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Douchebag
PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2019 6:05 pm 
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Walt Williams Neck wrote:
Douchebag wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
So who was the first elite shooter in the NBA?

Reggie?

Jack Marin

That guy's name sounds older than you.

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Walt Williams Neck
PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2019 6:28 pm 
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Nardi wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Nardi wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
You would think a student of the game like ltg would understand that the 3 point shot was a pretty terrible shot to take on a percentage basis when Bob McAdoo played. League averages were like 24 to 28%.

But for the INVENTOR of the stretch 4 it wouldn't be.

The line didn't even exist for half of his career.

Who is the inventor of it?

I'm not even sure the modern definition of stretch 4 is correct compared to back in the day. Who's to say that maybe just the act of pulling out the defensive 4 20 feet from the hoop because the offensive 4 can hit that shot is in fact "stretching". I don't think it is but an argument can be made that the defense just lost their main rebounder because he's out defending the perimeter. In which case,

Jerry Lucas is the 1st Stretch 4.

I might concede Mr. Memory.....but I remember him being in the high post

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Brick
PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2019 6:39 pm 
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Nardi may have saved ltg in this thread.

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Walt Williams Neck
PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2019 6:52 pm 
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from the NY Times 2014
SAN ANTONIO — Bob McAdoo, with his graceful, high-arcing jumper, was a rarity for an N.B.A. big man. At 6 feet 9 inches, he could pull shot blockers like Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Artis Gilmore and Bob Lanier out near the top of the key and shoot over them or drive past them. Three times, McAdoo led the league in scoring, and in 1975, he was named the N.B.A.’s most valuable player.
But when the N.B.A. instituted the 3-point line midway through his career, McAdoo did not venture there. He made just three 3-point shots in seven seasons.
“It was a strain for most of us,” McAdoo said. “When I did shoot it, it was a desperation shot.”

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I'm going to bounce from the spot for awhile but I will be back at some point to argue with you about this hoops stuff again. Playoffs have been great this season. See ya up the road.

I'm out.
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long time guy
PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2019 7:24 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Nardi may have saved ltg in this thread.


Too bad you were not as fortunate.
Boilermaker wrote:
To me, the idea of a stretch 4 is that they have outside skills that bring their defender away from the basket. That would mean a 3 point shooter now based on how the NBA is played but before the concept of a 3 point line existed there could still technically be a stretch 4.

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Walt Williams Neck
PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2019 7:26 pm 
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long time guy wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Nardi may have saved ltg in this thread.


Too bad you were not as fortunate.
Boilermaker wrote:
To me, the idea of a stretch 4 is that they have outside skills that bring their defender away from the basket. That would mean a 3 point shooter now based on how the NBA is played but before the concept of a 3 point line existed there could still technically be a stretch 4.

Operative word may

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I'm going to bounce from the spot for awhile but I will be back at some point to argue with you about this hoops stuff again. Playoffs have been great this season. See ya up the road.

I'm out.
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long time guy
PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2019 7:33 pm 
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Walt Williams Neck wrote:
long time guy wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Nardi may have saved ltg in this thread.


Too bad you were not as fortunate.
Boilermaker wrote:
To me, the idea of a stretch 4 is that they have outside skills that bring their defender away from the basket. That would mean a 3 point shooter now based on how the NBA is played but before the concept of a 3 point line existed there could still technically be a stretch 4.

Operative word may


Reading is a skill.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/spo ... -offenses/


During the 1995 Western Conference semifinals, Houston Rockets Coach Rudy Tomjanovich had never heard the term “stretch-4,” because it had not entered the basketball vernacular. The phrase “pace and space” did not exist. Tomjanovich only sought a means to guard Phoenix Suns forward Charles Barkley without double-teaming him, to prevent passes to open three-point shooters. And so Tomjanovich tried something new. He played usual small forward Robert Horry at power forward.

Tomjanovich quickly realized the defensive strategy actually created a more significant shift in the Rockets’ offense. With Horry on the floor instead of a plodding power forward, four shooters surrounded center Hakeem Olajuwon, and every player on the court had more space to operate. It gave Tomjanovich a sudden, clear insight: This is how teams should play.

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Walt Williams Neck
PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2019 7:43 pm 
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long time guy wrote:
Walt Williams Neck wrote:
long time guy wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Nardi may have saved ltg in this thread.


Too bad you were not as fortunate.
Boilermaker wrote:
To me, the idea of a stretch 4 is that they have outside skills that bring their defender away from the basket. That would mean a 3 point shooter now based on how the NBA is played but before the concept of a 3 point line existed there could still technically be a stretch 4.

Operative word may


Reading is a skill.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/spo ... -offenses/


During the 1995 Western Conference semifinals, Houston Rockets Coach Rudy Tomjanovich had never heard the term “stretch-4,” because it had not entered the basketball vernacular. The phrase “pace and space” did not exist. Tomjanovich only sought a means to guard Phoenix Suns forward Charles Barkley without double-teaming him, to prevent passes to open three-point shooters. And so Tomjanovich tried something new. He played usual small forward Robert Horry at power forward.

Tomjanovich quickly realized the defensive strategy actually created a more significant shift in the Rockets’ offense. With Horry on the floor instead of a plodding power forward, four shooters surrounded center Hakeem Olajuwon, and every player on the court had more space to operate. It gave Tomjanovich a sudden, clear insight: This is how teams should play.

you didn't read what I posted asshole

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I'm going to bounce from the spot for awhile but I will be back at some point to argue with you about this hoops stuff again. Playoffs have been great this season. See ya up the road.

I'm out.
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Brick
PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2019 6:09 am 
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Walt Williams Neck wrote:
from the NY Times 2014
SAN ANTONIO — Bob McAdoo, with his graceful, high-arcing jumper, was a rarity for an N.B.A. big man. At 6 feet 9 inches, he could pull shot blockers like Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Artis Gilmore and Bob Lanier out near the top of the key and shoot over them or drive past them. Three times, McAdoo led the league in scoring, and in 1975, he was named the N.B.A.’s most valuable player.
But when the N.B.A. instituted the 3-point line midway through his career, McAdoo did not venture there. He made just three 3-point shots in seven seasons.
“It was a strain for most of us,” McAdoo said. “When I did shoot it, it was a desperation shot.”

Case closed.

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Furious Styles
PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2019 9:00 am 
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My guy Walt!

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Terry's Peeps
PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2019 9:13 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Walt Williams Neck wrote:
from the NY Times 2014
SAN ANTONIO — Bob McAdoo, with his graceful, high-arcing jumper, was a rarity for an N.B.A. big man. At 6 feet 9 inches, he could pull shot blockers like Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Artis Gilmore and Bob Lanier out near the top of the key and shoot over them or drive past them. Three times, McAdoo led the league in scoring, and in 1975, he was named the N.B.A.’s most valuable player.
But when the N.B.A. instituted the 3-point line midway through his career, McAdoo did not venture there. He made just three 3-point shots in seven seasons.
“It was a strain for most of us,” McAdoo said. “When I did shoot it, it was a desperation shot.”

Case closed.


Seems pretty cut and dried.

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Nardi
PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2019 9:16 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Walt Williams Neck wrote:
from the NY Times 2014
SAN ANTONIO — Bob McAdoo, with his graceful, high-arcing jumper, was a rarity for an N.B.A. big man. At 6 feet 9 inches, he could pull shot blockers like Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Artis Gilmore and Bob Lanier out near the top of the key and shoot over them or drive past them. Three times, McAdoo led the league in scoring, and in 1975, he was named the N.B.A.’s most valuable player.
But when the N.B.A. instituted the 3-point line midway through his career, McAdoo did not venture there. He made just three 3-point shots in seven seasons.
“It was a strain for most of us,” McAdoo said. “When I did shoot it, it was a desperation shot.”

Case closed.

Yup. No confusion there whatsoever.
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long time guy
PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 4:53 pm 
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Still no evidence that McAdoo invented the position.
Quote:
The NBA’s general reluctance to shoot threes, once the line was implemented in 1979-80, was even more pronounced among its big men. In 1986-87, Tom Chambers made history: he became the first minutes-qualified player standing 6-foot-10 or taller to average at least one three-pointer per game. That’s right, there wasn’t a single big man to crack that modest standard for the first seven seasons that the three-point line existed. It wasn't until the 1987-88 season that players standing 6-foot-10 or taller attempted greater than five percent of all three-pointers. During the 1980s, the three-point line was basically an amusement park rollercoaster with a sign that read “must be shorter than 6-foot-10 to ride.”

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MongoMuller
PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2020 2:34 pm 
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