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veganfan21

Post subject: Vince

Posted: Thu Jun 25, 2020 1:36 pm

Joined: Wed Mar 20, 2013 3:50 pm
Posts: 16078
pizza_Place: Malnati's

Retired officially.

Probably a HOF'er, right? Even though he was never dominant, just really damn good. But the NBA's got a low bar. Really unique combination of grace and power as a dunker, perhaps the best ever?

Everyone cites the Olympic dunk as his best but I love these just as much:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wnz95vZn7ig&t=90s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kwFfo1Z9uzA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=njLIzxnVQ7A (love the wrong way 360s, 8-9 in particular - very cool to see)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qVik0xm5q20 (still don't get how you can do this)

Also, this is quite underrated:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQT71Yk2EkA

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Caller Bob

Post subject: Re: Vince

Posted: Thu Jun 25, 2020 1:37 pm

Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2015 1:15 pm
Posts: 41366
Location: Small Fringe Minority
pizza_Place: John's

Hall of Very Good

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Regular Reader

Post subject: Re: Vince

Posted: Thu Jun 25, 2020 1:39 pm

Joined: Sun Nov 26, 2006 8:10 pm
Posts: 38609
Location: "Across 110th Street"

Hall of very good. Another compiler without any playoff noise.

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Nas

Post subject: Re: Vince

Posted: Thu Jun 25, 2020 1:41 pm

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He's a HoFer. He was one of the best players in the league for about 7 years. If he retires after 2010 no on questions if he's a HoFer.

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Last edited by Nas on Thu Jun 25, 2020 1:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Caller Bob

Post subject: Re: Vince

Posted: Thu Jun 25, 2020 1:42 pm

Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2015 1:15 pm
Posts: 41366
Location: Small Fringe Minority
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Nas wrote:

He's a HoFer. He was one of the best players in the league for about 7 years.

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veganfan21

Post subject: Re: Vince

Posted: Thu Jun 25, 2020 1:46 pm

Joined: Wed Mar 20, 2013 3:50 pm
Posts: 16078
pizza_Place: Malnati's

Nas wrote:

He's a HoFer. He was one of the best players in the league for about 7 years. If he retires after 2010 no on questions if he's a HoFer.

He's going to make it based on the type of player that generally makes it anyway.

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Regular Reader

Post subject: Re: Vince

Posted: Thu Jun 25, 2020 1:47 pm

Joined: Sun Nov 26, 2006 8:10 pm
Posts: 38609
Location: "Across 110th Street"

Nas wrote:

He was one of the better players in the league for about 7 years. If he retires after 2010 no on questions if he's a HoFer.

Fixed. And even if he quit in 2010, still no.

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Jaw Breaker

Post subject: Re: Vince

Posted: Thu Jun 25, 2020 1:49 pm

Joined: Thu Sep 30, 2010 3:40 pm
Posts: 16400
pizza_Place: Boni Vino

Hard to believe he only reached one conference final in 22 seasons.

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TurdFerguson

Post subject: Re: Vince

Posted: Thu Jun 25, 2020 1:51 pm

Joined: Thu Feb 14, 2013 2:12 pm
Posts: 2865
pizza_Place: maciano's

Get a yes from me on HOF. Was a stat accumulated but had a run where he was why you watched games.

Short list of best dunkers ever.

What other 8 time all stars are borderline HOF?

Last edited by TurdFerguson on Thu Jun 25, 2020 2:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Nas

Post subject: Re: Vince

Posted: Thu Jun 25, 2020 1:53 pm

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Caller Bob wrote:

Nas wrote:

He's a HoFer. He was one of the best players in the league for about 7 years.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/pl ... evi01.html

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Caller Bob

Post subject: Re: Vince

Posted: Thu Jun 25, 2020 1:55 pm

Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2015 1:15 pm
Posts: 41366
Location: Small Fringe Minority
pizza_Place: John's

Nas wrote:

Caller Bob wrote:

Nas wrote:

He's a HoFer. He was one of the best players in the league for about 7 years.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/pl ... evi01.html

Never once made a NBA 1st team. That's voted on by peers, not idiot fans. Maybe one or two years he was close but he was never a staple "best player" for 7 years. He will get in though because they let everyone in the Basketball HOF.

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Nas

Post subject: Re: Vince

Posted: Thu Jun 25, 2020 2:00 pm

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Caller Bob wrote:

Nas wrote:

Caller Bob wrote:

Nas wrote:

He's a HoFer. He was one of the best players in the league for about 7 years.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/pl ... evi01.html

A guy named Kobe Bryant had something to do with that.

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conns7901

Post subject: Re: Vince

Posted: Thu Jun 25, 2020 2:05 pm

Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2005 11:36 pm
Posts: 19273

Doesn't just about everyone make the basketball hall of fame?

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312player

Post subject: Re: Vince

Posted: Thu Jun 25, 2020 2:24 pm

Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2011 10:15 am
Posts: 27591
pizza_Place: nick n vito's

conns7901 wrote:

Doesn't just about everyone make the basketball hall of fame?

You've got broads and guys in who never played in the NBA..its a joke.

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Caller Bob

Post subject: Re: Vince

Posted: Thu Jun 25, 2020 2:26 pm

Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2015 1:15 pm
Posts: 41366
Location: Small Fringe Minority
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We gotta get Boers and Berstein to purge the Basketball HOF again.

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veganfan21

Post subject: Re: Vince

Posted: Thu Jun 25, 2020 2:38 pm

Joined: Wed Mar 20, 2013 3:50 pm
Posts: 16078
pizza_Place: Malnati's

Here's my proposal:

At least two of the following:

1) MVP
2) Six years of All-NBA (combination of first and second team)
3) 10 All Star Games
4) Top 7 in at least two of the following categories for at least seven years: Points, Rebounds, Assists, Steals, 3P FGM, Blocks, FG%
5) Defensive Player of the Year

Probably missing some key accolades.

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shakes

Post subject: Re: Vince

Posted: Thu Jun 25, 2020 2:59 pm

Joined: Thu Jun 04, 2009 2:36 pm
Posts: 16765
pizza_Place: Il Forno in Deerfield!

veganfan21 wrote:

I don't agree with most of that

1) Don't have a problem with this one. Winning an MVP is huge.
2) All NBA could be tougher to make in certain decades due to competition.
3) All star games have a lot to do with what conference you play in. Also 10 is way too many to be a threshold.
4) seems arbitrary. Also we live in an age where raw stats are looked at with much less importance than in the past
5) I actually like this as a factor as it balances the bias against defensive players, but why not add X amount of first team all defensive team to this as well. Seems fair to do that.

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FavreFan

Post subject: Re: Vince

Posted: Thu Jun 25, 2020 3:05 pm

Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2007 11:17 am
Posts: 72371
Location: Palatine
pizza_Place: Lou Malnatis

He's a no doubter HOFer. One, because the basketball HOF is about the easiest club in the world to get into. Two, unprecedented longevity + good production in his prime.

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veganfan21

Post subject: Re: Vince

Posted: Thu Jun 25, 2020 3:09 pm

Joined: Wed Mar 20, 2013 3:50 pm
Posts: 16078
pizza_Place: Malnati's

shakes wrote:

veganfan21 wrote:

I don't agree with most of that

1) Don't have a problem with this one. Winning an MVP is huge.
2) All NBA could be tougher to make in certain decades due to competition. This is the purpose I think - to weed out those who don't belong. Kobe and MJ are HOF'ers but they'll be mentioned in the same breath as Carter, eventually, or Paul Pierce. Doesn't seem right. High bar for a reason
3) All star games have a lot to do with what conference you play in. Also 10 is way too many to be a threshold. I put 10 because ASGs are bullshit due to the fan vote. Kobe Bryant made one when he first started based on fan vote alone. All NBA appearances (point 2) is lower because it's legit/harder to get, while ASGs since they're easier to get into are higher.
4) seems arbitrary. Also we live in an age where raw stats are looked at with much less importance than in the past I meant per game averages but I'm open to rethinking this.
5) I actually like this as a factor as it balances the bias against defensive players, but why not add X amount of first team all defensive team to this as well. Seems fair to do that. Agreed, I missed All NBA Defense. I'd add that as #6 and have it mirror #2

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long time guy

Post subject: Re: Vince

Posted: Thu Jun 25, 2020 5:17 pm

Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2007 9:10 am
Posts: 31948

Kenny Smith once infamously coined the phrase "Half Man, Half a Season" when talking about Vince Carter. He will likely get in do to longevity and the fact that he had a Several years where he was considered elite. It was so long ago that it is seemingly forgotten how good he was for a time.

Plus he has always been regarded as a good guy/ media accessible by the writers and they are the ones that do the voting.

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