thanks Hubie Brown

It is possible to win you're outassisted by a team.

Just back away, genius.

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Are you saying that I'm wrong. Because im not and what I said is a fact.

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I don't need to rephrase it. Rebounding rates are a greater indicator of overall team success than ppg scored is. It's that simple. I'm surprised you didn't know that.

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None of that matters. History has consistently shown that rebounding rates are more indicative of success than scoring is for NBA teams. That cannot be argued. Im not trying to complicate anything, just stating that very simple fact.

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I don't know, it all dspends on context. It's hard to analyze the NBA on stats alone. But rebounding rate has always consistently been the biggest factor in win percentage.

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thus why Rodman is a HOF'er

For most shooting guards you wouldn't care. Offenses mostly want to have the point guard in control of the ball. The best shooting guards in the game shoot first so you don't really care if they get 10 assists or not. The same is true for the other positions. That's why it's not surprising that the assists per game list is mostly pg's. That is why there are only 7 players listed as sg who have over 3 assists per game and only 2 over 4 assists a game. It's just not what they do.

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But whenever Rodman joined a team, didn't the rebounds of his teammates decrease?

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like a moth to a flame....

Rebounds are a defensive statistic. Assists are offensive.

A rebound indicates ball possession. The team that has more rebounds would most likely have more possessions which would increase the chances for a team to score and lessen the possessions of the opponent.

An assist indicates ball movement. The team with more assists would most likely move the ball better and have a higher shooting percentage.

There's a school of thought that rebounding is a game of diminishing returns. If you have a top rebounder, you're undoubtedly going to have below average ones who may not have been below average had the top guy not been there.

I'm sure the basketball experts on this board are well aware of all the advanced statistics.

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that would be number of offensive rebounds allowed, no? i mean you can only get a rebound if an offensive player misses a shot; there are only a finite number of rebounds available in a game. i would suppose one way of looking at that would be was the team he was joining giving up less offensive rebounds, i.e. was he grabbing more defensive rebounds..or another way I guess would be that if he is focusing on rebounding it's freeing up the other players to leak out or to focus less on rebounding and therefore on other things. just saying it's not an independent thing like batting average, yeah you're going to get 3-4-5 AB a game and regardless of whether you're down 15-0 you can still get some hits....rebounding is somewhat limited. and again, you could say if there are no rebounds to be had then maybe that team isn't playing good defense, but that doesn't necessarily reflect on one individual

i agree in a sense and you just made this post as i was making mine
yes it is diminishing returns in a sense because again, there are only a finite number of rebounds to grab in a game
and it's not that simple
if you're the worst shooting team in the league chance are you're going to have more offensive rebounds
point being rebounding is certainly important but the circumstances under which they occur are more important

Agreed.

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Turner with a start last night and 32 minutes....1-12 shooting
although he did have double figures in rebounding

Trade him for Will Perdue.

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Meanwhile Wall had 20 points, 14 assists, and 6 rebounds on 7-10 shooting but I guess it's his fault the Wizards lost by 20 to GS. It certainly can't be that he has horrible teammates or anything.

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who was he guarding in the game? Ellis had 25 points and 8 assists...

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I'm not sure why Curry only played 9 minutes, I'm assuming Wall spent time on him, Nate, and Ellis. But even if Wall had a bad defensive game(which he most likely did), he still outperformed everyone else on the court stat wise. At the very least that means nobody was doing a good job on him either.

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...and?

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Still frustrated that facts interfered with your rebounding theory?


I'll play along though. The Bulls have the best rebounding rate in the NBA. Who has the best record in the NBA?

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Don't change your argument. You said points. You said nothing about point differential, which would include defense, which is very important. Rebounding also helps point differential. Your argument was that points(in a vacuum) were more important than rebounds. All i have ever said was rebounding rates were a better a better indicator of team success than ppg. That can't be argued, it's been proven true historically, yet for some reason you take issue with the statement.

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Sounds like John Wall is the new Tracy McGrady.

No it wasn't. Your original argument was that assists are more important than rebounds, and when I corrected you you kept arguing it.

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It sounds like you're trying to rationalize why you were wrong. It shouldn't take long for a Google expert like yourself to find that rebounding rates are more important ppg scored when it comes to winning teams.

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JORR Likes this

What are you right about? You're the one all over the place talking about assists, then points, then point differential. I've never changed my statement and find this whole thing amusing because it's common NBA knowledge that point differential and rebounding rate are the biggest factors in determining team winning percentage. No matter how you try to rationalize it, ppg scored and assists are not as big of factors. That's a proven fact over decades. There's no point in continuing this though.

John Wall is a much better player than Evan Turner is so far through 1.5 seasons.

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You don't seem to get that at it's core basketball is simply a game of probabilities. A team has a certain percentage of scoring and that number includes whatever percentage is possible of a good pass leading to a basket. Let's say for the sake of argument that when a team takes possession of the ball, that there is a 50% chance they will either score or not score on the first shot. This completely ignores turnovers as it doesn't change the math at all. Whether or not there was an assist is meaningless. Assists are impossible to happen during a possession and can only exist once a basket is scored and the possession is over. If the shot is made, the possession is over. If a defensive rebound occurs, then the possession is over. If an offensive rebound occurs, then the possession has another 50% chance of being successful, which raised the chance of success before the other team got the ball to 75%. Once again, the assist is meaningless because it's simply a reflection of how something occurred. It did not change the odds at all because an assist does not exist during a possession.

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