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You would think in this era of sabermetrics that every stat and meaningful minute
played by each player can be tracked then a dollar amount can be given to each
players comparable stats. Do this every year and basically you have everyone playing
for a contract every year which means no "dogging" it.

mcbrides wrote:

An interesting idea, but then we would have a ton of players who are out on the floor solely for their own benefit. They would be stopping plays short, firing up ridiculous shots, and doing everything they can to just pad their own individual stats.

Hey...wait a minute....

A second NBA team in Chicago would never survive.

Ugueth Will Shiv You wrote:

A second NBA team in Chicago would never survive.

Based on what? Certainly not Bulls attendance figures. If the team was owned by MJ? Of course it would.

A second NBA team in Chicago would never survive.

Northside_Dan wrote:

Ugueth Will Shiv You wrote:

A second NBA team in Chicago would never survive.

Based on what? Certainly not Bulls attendance figures. If the team was owned by MJ? Of course it would.

Bulls attendance figures are the way they are because of the Bulls history. That much is obvious. You mean to tell me that if another "second-rate" NBA team started up in Chicago enough people would switch over to the Chicago Bobcats? Come on.

Next thing you'll say is that another NFL team would survive in the city.

Okay, say we are discussing Charlotte moving to Chicago. The Bulls history you speak of is largely determined by MJ. I think you are discounting the amount of people who were MJ fans moreso than Bulls fans. It's not people having to 'switch' over, Chicagoland is a populous area, there are plenty of people around to support a 2nd 20k seat arena.

Northside_Dan wrote:

I'm not discounting the fact that many Chicagoans are fans of Michael Jordan. You may be right; the initial allure of the "new team in town" may drive attendance to the "Chicago Bobcats" for the first season. In the long run, however, I highly doubt enough interest would be kept in the new team.

I'll use the example of the Chicago Bears again, because I feel the Bulls and Bears have a similar level of tradition (same with the Blackhawks). I couldn't possibly fathom another NFL team or NHL team in this city.

A NFL team I could absolutely see. Chicago Jaguars or whatever and build them a stadium out in Schaumburg.

NHL no, at least not right now. Maybe in 10 years.

A second Chicago NBA team would have a larger fan base to draw from than any of the markets that DB mentioned. As long as the team is moderately successful, they would sell out every night.

In fact, the second-best team in terms of attendance - the Trail Blazers - were still 1,200 away from the Bulls in 2010. That shows a ton of loyalty to a team that hasn't won a title in over a decade, yet was established by the greatness of six teams and one player.

Could that same player bring his Bobcats to Chicago and take away enough attendance from the Bulls to survive financially? Well; I guess they couldn't be any worse than the Indiana Pacers (avg. 13,500 fans/game in 2010).

Personally, I don't see it as a good idea.

The Charolette Bobcats - as of 2010 - averaged over 15,800 fans per game (21st in the NBA). They would need to pull in at least that number if they moved to Chicago in order to break even. I don't see that happening.

It's not just attendance that matters. The TV money would be worth more than double, and the merchandise sales would also be higher. The attendance figures for Charlotte and Indiana have to be inflated also. There's no way those teams are drawing 13-15 thousand per night, unless they are giving seats away.

The league needs to move a few teams and just flat out eliminate a few

Douchebag wrote:

I'm just going off of what was listed on ESPN for those numbers:http://espn.go.com/nba/attendance

Author:	Ugueth Will Shiv You [ Mon Jul 11, 2011 9:53 am ]
Post subject:	Brainstorm How to Fix NBA
What do we got? For example, Grantland.com's Bill Simmons offers a player incentive plan that would include an "All-Star" ranking after two years and a "Franchise" ranking after three. Article can be found here: http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/6749669/if-ruled-nba-world I'm not in love with that idea, but it would at least somewhat address the Baron Davis' of the NBA who are "comically overpaid".

Author:	sinicalypse [ Mon Jul 11, 2011 10:17 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Brainstorm How to Fix NBA
More white people. They'll show up to work with lunchpails and work ethics because their culture is superior to that of the greedy negroes!

Author:	Douchebag [ Mon Jul 11, 2011 10:18 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Brainstorm How to Fix NBA
I love Simmons' Entertaining as hell tournament. The league needs to make something like that happen.

Author:	mcbrides [ Mon Jul 11, 2011 10:59 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Brainstorm How to Fix NBA
You would think in this era of sabermetrics that every stat and meaningful minute played by each player can be tracked then a dollar amount can be given to each players comparable stats. Do this every year and basically you have everyone playing for a contract every year which means no "dogging" it.

Author:	Ugueth Will Shiv You [ Mon Jul 11, 2011 11:07 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Brainstorm How to Fix NBA
mcbrides wrote: You would think in this era of sabermetrics that every stat and meaningful minute played by each player can be tracked then a dollar amount can be given to each players comparable stats. Do this every year and basically you have everyone playing for a contract every year which means no "dogging" it. An interesting idea, but then we would have a ton of players who are out on the floor solely for their own benefit. They would be stopping plays short, firing up ridiculous shots, and doing everything they can to just pad their own individual stats. Hey...wait a minute....

Chicago Fanatics Message Board http://chicagofanatics.com/

Brainstorm How to Fix NBA http://chicagofanatics.com/viewtopic.php?f=91&t=60397	Page 1 of 2

Author:	mcbrides [ Mon Jul 11, 2011 11:23 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Brainstorm How to Fix NBA
Ugueth Will Shiv You wrote: mcbrides wrote: You would think in this era of sabermetrics that every stat and meaningful minute played by each player can be tracked then a dollar amount can be given to each players comparable stats. Do this every year and basically you have everyone playing for a contract every year which means no "dogging" it. An interesting idea, but then we would have a ton of players who are out on the floor solely for their own benefit. They would be stopping plays short, firing up ridiculous shots, and doing everything they can to just pad their own individual stats. Hey...wait a minute.... yep Plus if you think about it players might think a little more cause if they start fucking off and get benched that will hurt their minutes played which starts to impact the stats they need to get paid..

Author:	Northside_Dan [ Mon Jul 11, 2011 11:44 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Brainstorm How to Fix NBA
"The Charlotte Bobcats never should have happened. You know how I know this? Because Michael Jordan spent about 20 bucks in actual cash to buy them two years ago, that's how. If the Bobcats break their stadium lease and move somewhere else, they'd have to pay the city of Charlotte $150 million. So it would make no sense to move them, unless … you know … Jordan moves them to Chicago (where he still lives), plays in the United Center (where he has a giant statue), ropes Oprah into being a minority owner, then quickly becomes a well-run version of the Clippers to the Bulls' version of the Lakers.20 Not only would they cover the $150 million pretty quickly, but that would give the league six teams in the three biggest TV markets. And that's a bad thing … why?"

Author:	rogers park bryan [ Mon Jul 11, 2011 11:45 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Brainstorm How to Fix NBA
More Gifs!

Author:	Hank Scorpio [ Mon Jul 11, 2011 11:47 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Brainstorm How to Fix NBA
More WNBA teams and a longer WNBA season.

Author:	lipidquadcab [ Mon Jul 11, 2011 12:01 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Brainstorm How to Fix NBA
Bring back Tom Chambers

Author:	Northside_Dan [ Mon Jul 11, 2011 12:38 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Brainstorm How to Fix NBA
Ugueth Will Shiv You wrote: A second NBA team in Chicago would never survive. Based on what? Certainly not Bulls attendance figures. If the team was owned by MJ? Of course it would.

Author:	Douchebag [ Mon Jul 11, 2011 12:40 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Brainstorm How to Fix NBA
Ugueth Will Shiv You wrote: A second NBA team in Chicago would never survive. Yeah, they would be much better off in Charlotte, or Indianapolis, or Sacramento, or Milwaukee, or Toronto, or New orelans....

Author:	Douchebag [ Mon Jul 11, 2011 12:50 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Brainstorm How to Fix NBA
Ugueth Will Shiv You wrote: Northside_Dan wrote: Ugueth Will Shiv You wrote: A second NBA team in Chicago would never survive. Based on what? Certainly not Bulls attendance figures. If the team was owned by MJ? Of course it would. Bulls attendance figures are the way they are because of the Bulls history. That much is obvious. You mean to tell me that if another "second-rate" NBA team started up in Chicago enough people would switch over to the Chicago Bobcats? Come on. Next thing you'll say is that another NFL team would survive in the city. The White Sox do pretty well being the 2nd rate team in town. Another team would have dominating attendance figures like the Bulls, but they would definitely draw much better than most of the NBA.

Author:	Northside_Dan [ Mon Jul 11, 2011 1:03 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Brainstorm How to Fix NBA
A NFL team I could absolutely see. Chicago Jaguars or whatever and build them a stadium out in Schaumburg. NHL no, at least not right now. Maybe in 10 years. A second Chicago NBA team would have a larger fan base to draw from than any of the markets that DB mentioned. As long as the team is moderately successful, they would sell out every night.

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Author:	Hank Scorpio [ Mon Jul 11, 2011 1:12 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Brainstorm How to Fix NBA
Ugueth Will Shiv You wrote: Northside_Dan wrote: Okay, say we are discussing Charlotte moving to Chicago. The Bulls history you speak of is largely determined by MJ. I think you are discounting the amount of people who were MJ fans moreso than Bulls fans. It's not people having to 'switch' over, Chicagoland is a populous area, there are plenty of people around to support a 2nd 20k seat arena. I'm not discounting the fact that many Chicagoans are fans of Michael Jordan. You may be right; the initial allure of the "new team in town" may drive attendance to the "Chicago Bobcats" for the first season. In the long run, however, I highly doubt enough interest would be kept in the new team. I'll use the example of the Chicago Bears again, because I feel the Bulls and Bears have a similar level of tradition (same with the Blackhawks). I couldn't possibly fathom another NFL team or NHL team in this city. If they were good from the get go it would work for either the NBA or NFL. If it was a suckfest it might not be able to get off the ground. It isnt fair to compare to the baseball situation because they both have been around for years. It isnt like the Sox just started up in 1995.

Author:	Northside_Dan [ Mon Jul 11, 2011 2:33 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Brainstorm How to Fix NBA
Ugueth Will Shiv You wrote: In fact, the second-best team in terms of attendance - the Trail Blazers - were still 1,200 away from the Bulls in 2010. That shows a ton of loyalty to a team that hasn't won a title in over a decade, yet was established by the greatness of six teams and one player. Could that same player bring his Bobcats to Chicago and take away enough attendance from the Bulls to survive financially? Well; I guess they couldn't be any worse than the Indiana Pacers (avg. 13,500 fans/game in 2010). Personally, I don't see it as a good idea. The attendance point proves that obviously basketball is very popular in the city. We both agree that the Bulls have a unique fanbase between basketball fans, MJ fans and something in-between. As long as the 2nd Chicago team draws better than 14k a night on average, it would be a good fiscal decision for the league. Chicagoland has roughly 9 million people. It would work.

Author:	Douchebag [ Mon Jul 11, 2011 2:45 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Brainstorm How to Fix NBA
Ugueth Will Shiv You wrote: The Charolette Bobcats - as of 2010 - averaged over 15,800 fans per game (21st in the NBA). They would need to pull in at least that number if they moved to Chicago in order to break even. I don't see that happening. It's not just attendance that matters. The TV money would be worth more than double, and the merchandise sales would also be higher. The attendance figures for Charlotte and Indiana have to be inflated also. There's no way those teams are drawing 13-15 thousand per night, unless they are giving seats away.

Author:	Northside_Dan [ Mon Jul 11, 2011 2:49 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Brainstorm How to Fix NBA
St. Louis metro area has less than 3 million people. Chicago has 9. Factor in attendance, TV, merchandise etc and its' not even close. The sooner the NBA realizes the more teams in bigger cities the better, the better than project will be. The league needs to move a few teams and just flat out eliminate a few

Author:	Douchebag [ Mon Jul 11, 2011 2:59 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Brainstorm How to Fix NBA
Ugueth Will Shiv You wrote: Douchebag wrote: It's not just attendance that matters. The TV money would be worth more than double, and the merchandise sales would also be higher. The attendance figures for Charlotte and Indiana have to be inflated also. There's no way those teams are drawing 13-15 thousand per night, unless they are giving seats away. I'm just going off of what was listed on ESPN for those numbers:http://espn.go.com/nba/attendance I know for a fact that Indiana has given tickets away to games for free, and I would assume that Charlotte has done the same. If you see any of their games on TV, there's empty seats all over the place, unless they're playing a popular team like Boston, Chicago, Miami, etc...