I would agree.

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2018
#ExtendLafleur
10 More Wins

No.. I was 2 when he was in college. Everybody I know who juices started in HS. I do remember a sports illustrated detailing his workouts with Boston and I thought juicer even back then.

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You might be a little off on this one.

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2018
#ExtendLafleur
10 More Wins

My take on Clemens - he started juicing around his stint in Toronto and w/ the Yankees. He was getting older and wanted to prolong his career and did it.

Bonds - He started for the same reason during his latter Giants years as he was getting old too.

all these guys were doing it to fight getting older. they knew everyone else was doing it and nobody was being punished so they thought why not.

Clemens and Bonds were on a Hall of Fame trajectory before they started juicing and I think they deserve to be inducted. Sosa would have been a noteworthy, but not great player, without the steroids and, as far as I'm concerned, he should be out. Manny is a tougher case, but I also think he would have been a great hitter without the juice, he should also get in. Sheffield is below the average WAR for Hall of Fame right fielders both for his career and his seven year peak, I wouldn't vote for him, but I also wouldn't object too strongly if he was inducted. Finally, Schilling is kind of an idiot but his post season performances and his WAR should get him in, and Helton is a .316 career hitter and has a 7 year peak average WAR that's higher than the average Hall of Fame third basement, he should get in.

Clemens was washed up, then suddenly.....

Didn’t the White Sox pass on him, saying he was damaged goods?

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Yep.

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Sherman remarked, "Well, Grant, we've had the devil's own day, haven't we?" Grant looked up. "Yes," he replied, followed by a puff. "Yes. Lick 'em tomorrow, though."

Bonds and Clemens will get into the HOF when they're dead. This is how the old man network at the HOF works. If you pissed any of these guys off when you played, that's how you get discriminated there.

Look at Ron Santo. Just because he clicked his heels they shut him out until after he died.

What do people think about Pettitte and Sabaitha?

Very similar. 250 plus wins, 3.8 ERA about but Sabathia has a better WHIP.

Sabathia has a CY Young. pettitte does not.

Very similar WAR and Peak WAR. Both well below the averages for HOFers.

Pettitte has 5 rings but has some PED stink in him..

I think both will get in, but I think they are interesting cases to see how HOF voting shifts in the coming years

Jerry would have never paid him.

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Sheffield admitted to tanking defensive plays on purpose to force a trade out of Milwaukee. Should have been banned from MLB and ineligible for the Hall

Andruw Jones is another interesting case.

What’s the record for most Good Gloves and not in the Hall?

Jones won 10. All consecutive. His slash line is bad .254/.337/.486.

His career war is below average for a HOf outfielder but his Peak WAR is above average for HOFers.

What would the respective careers of Jones and Todd Helton look like if Jones played in Coors for his first 12 years and Helton played in Turner Field, which was a pitchers park?

A colleague of mine from our NY office is a huge Yankee fan and his mother was an even bigger Yankee fan than him, and would frequently call him with Yankee news, often during work hours. After a while the interruptions got to be too much, and he nicely asked her to wait until after work to discuss Yankee-related content.

Several days later, as he was giving a presentation in front of a few dozen people, he sees his phone ring and it was his mother. He didn't answer, thinking it could wait. She immediately called again, and again he dismissed it. Less than a minute later, she called yet again, so this time (thinking it could be an emergency), he excused himself and stepped outside to take the call.

"What's up mom...is everything ok?"

"Yeah--Did you hear Andy Pettitte retired?"

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Jones is a no doubter. Best defensive OF by far of his era and 400 Homers, 60+ WAR. If Ozzie Smith is in, Jones has to be.

I would vote for Jones. I just hate making the argument that “if x player is in, then y player should be in.”

But Smith is definitely who I thought of as well.

Abreu > Rizzo

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

I liked Jones, but not having a ring, nor the national spotlight on him like Ozzie did hurts his chances especially as a .254 hitter. I don't really think much about his homer numbers, but if asked I'd present Fred McGriff's as more impressive.

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There are only two examples of infinity: The universe and human stupidity and I'm not sure about the universe.

His other worldly defense more than makes up for the .254 imo

Agree.

It's perhaps not fair but the stature of the players IS a factor. Jones is respected, but Ozzie was revered. And other worldly defense at cf pales in comparison to at ss.

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There are only two examples of infinity: The universe and human stupidity and I'm not sure about the universe.

Andruw Jones is not a HoF'er but with today's watered down criteria, why not ? Put them all in.

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Proud member of the white guy grievance committee

It aint the six minutes. Its what happens in those six minutes.

Ozzie Smith is literally the evil

His career OPS is. 666

Jones .823 btw

What is your criteria that Jones doesn't meet?

He only paid Navarro a little less than Clemens got.

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Communists are just people who are terrible at capitalism.

I don't think it's a stretch to question if Clemens was juicing by 1990

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No way. That's like putting Jim Edmonds in the Hall of Fame. And neither one of them was as good as Fred Lynn who shouldn't get in either.

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Communists are just people who are terrible at capitalism.

One ring and three WS appearances as team leader makes up for that.

But then again, I'm still one of the troglodytes that wouldn't vote a guy into the HOF unless I'd have paid (Or stopped) to watch him play.

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There are only two examples of infinity: The universe and human stupidity and I'm not sure about the universe.

If Fred Lynn stays in Boston, he probably gets in. Anaheim may as well be the dark side of the moon.

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There are only two examples of infinity: The universe and human stupidity and I'm not sure about the universe.

I like this criteria...
in comes Mark Buehrle for HoF consideration

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