But what are the agreed upon Josh Gibson stats? And why stop with the Negro Leagues? Should we honor Japanese Baseball stats?

The Japanese leagues are not the equivalent of the majors. I don't even think anyone could argue that they are. When I've made my case for Contreras as a Hall of Famer, I've had guys bring up Sadahuru Oh. Big difference. The overall depth and quality of play in Cuba was much stronger than Japan. And more than that, Contreras was prevented from playing in the big leagues through no fault of his own. Paige was blocked by the color line. Contreras was blocked by Castro. Oh could have come at any time. If he had, I suspect his legend wouldn't be quite what it is.

All the negro league stats should be reduced by 3/5ths

I guess I kind of fall somewhere between you and Frank regarding the numbers. If this had happened in 1980 I would have found it outrageous. 60 and 714 were sacred numbers that everyone knew. The names Tracy Stallard and Al Downing mean something to me. There was a time when I could tell you every guy who ever hit 50 in a season off the top of my head and it wasn't many. The steroid, juiced ball, small ballpark, whatever you want to attribute the offensive explosion to era changed everything. I don't even know the all-time home run record. I know Bonds holds it, but I couldn't tell you the number. The single season record, I'm pretty sure it's 73, but I wouldn't swear to it without looking it up. And I'm a pretty big fan. Even the average guy who didn't really care about the game knew 714. So did his wife.

Still, of course you're correct that it's pandering and it's pretty ridiculous to install the Bunyanesque feats of these guys, as great as they may have been, as official records. Are we going to replace Usain Bolt with Cool Papa Bell based on legend and sketchy record keeping too? Even if the record keeping were complete and relatively sound, which it isn't, there were too many guys pitching to Gibson and Charleston that couldn't have sniffed the big leagues.

This is officially a terrible idea.

But what are the agreed upon Josh Gibson stats? And why stop with the Negro Leagues? Should we honor Japanese Baseball stats?

But what are the agreed upon Josh Gibson stats? And why stop with the Negro Leagues? Should we honor Japanese Baseball stats?

The generally accepted stats are from the site I posted. That guy has put in the work to find them and has copies of the work published in various news papers from the times.

I had mentioned it earlier, but the Negro Leagues were teams playing exhibitions in a traveling circus type schedule. It wasn't really organized baseball. So the compiled stats don't mean a lot.

It's ridiculous pandering, but you already knew that. Now back to your d virtue signaling about white guilt and what a great ally you are to minorities from your Lake Forest mansion.

Cool, though not sure how accurate numbers are from the period.

As much as I love baseball, I've never put much stock in the pre 1947 numbers for what was a flawed game all around. I love the stories but don't respect any of the numbers. They mean nothing. Starting with Cy Young's win total. It's b.s. and so outsized that it's never talked about.

As much as I love baseball, I've never put much stock in the pre 1947 numbers for what was a flawed game all around. I love the stories but don't respect any of the numbers. They mean nothing. Starting with Cy Young's win total. It's b.s. and so outsized that it's never talked about.

Finally, something we agree on.

I don't really agree with that but what you say here really brought home how pointless this is. Everyone knows who the great players were regardless of whether they are white or black or what league they played in. If anything, it's woke shitheads like bernstein who attempt to diminsh a guy like Ruth as being a fat slob who couldn't compete against today's superior athletes and might not make a good college team in 2020. Nobody ever suggests Josh Gibson wouldn't be an All-Star if he played today.

I don't really agree with that but what you say here really brought home how pointless this is. Everyone knows who the great players were regardless of whether they are white or black or what league they played in. If anything, it's woke shitheads like bernstein who attempt to diminsh a guy like Ruth as being a fat slob who couldn't compete against today's superior athletes and might not make a good college team in 2020. Nobody ever suggests Josh Gibson wouldn't be an All-Star if he played today.

Did Bernstein really say that? I guess it isn't surprising.

Is Baseball Reference affiliated with MLB? Even if they aren’t, do you envision them merging the records/stats?

Did Bernstein really say that? I guess it isn't surprising.

And yeah, I get that the games have "evolved". (Mostly the training and drugs have evolved.) It's just funny that Michael Jordan and Charles Barkley, et al. actually believe they and the guys they played with are physically superior to those who played 30 years earlier than they did but they absolutely can't believe that LeBron and the current guys 30 years after are superior to them.

Wilt was one of the few who was a full time basketball player at the time.

Put me in a time machine and put me in a science debate with Issac Newton and I would be far more knowledgeable on science than him.

That's not true.

That's not true. And Wilt played against more Hall of Fame big men than anyone.

It's that the average player he was playing against was far worse than it is now.