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2021 HOF Ballot

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Regular Reader

Post subject: Re: 2021 HOF Ballot

Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2020 3:37 pm

Joined: Sun Nov 26, 2006 8:10 pm
Posts: 38609
Location: "Across 110th Street"

BigW72 wrote:

Regular Reader wrote:

But then again, I'm still one of the troglodytes that wouldn't vote a guy into the HOF unless I'd have paid (Or stopped) to watch him play.

I like this criteria...
in comes Mark Buehrle for HoF consideration :lol:

And Bryan isn't even a Braves fan that I know of. :lol:

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Hawg Ass

Post subject: Re: 2021 HOF Ballot

Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2020 3:39 pm

Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2007 2:00 pm
Posts: 28875

Jim Rice is my Hall of Very Good guy, really good numbers, but not Hall of Fame.

And I loved him as a player.

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Regular Reader

Post subject: Re: 2021 HOF Ballot

Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2020 3:41 pm

Joined: Sun Nov 26, 2006 8:10 pm
Posts: 38609
Location: "Across 110th Street"

Hawg Ass wrote:

Jim Rice is my Hall of Very Good guy, really good numbers, but not Hall of Fame.

George Brett put it more succinctly in a different matter. If he had to hit the can, he'd hold it if Bo was coming up. Kinda like with Big Frank

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Regular Reader

Post subject: Re: 2021 HOF Ballot

Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2020 3:43 pm

Joined: Sun Nov 26, 2006 8:10 pm
Posts: 38609
Location: "Across 110th Street"

Hawg Ass wrote:

Jim Rice is my Hall of Very Good guy, really good numbers, but not Hall of Fame.

And I loved him as a player.

Same here. And I still think that the Cobra is far more deserving than Rice. And Jones.

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Hawg Ass

Post subject: Re: 2021 HOF Ballot

Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2020 3:47 pm

Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2007 2:00 pm
Posts: 28875

Regular Reader wrote:

Hawg Ass wrote:

Jim Rice is my Hall of Very Good guy, really good numbers, but not Hall of Fame.

And I loved him as a player.

Same here. And I still think that the Cobra is far more deserving than Rice. And Jones.

Rice got in because of his MVP, he was a good run producer, but I just don't see his other numbers as great.

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Jaw Breaker

Post subject: Re: 2021 HOF Ballot

Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2020 3:50 pm

Joined: Thu Sep 30, 2010 3:40 pm
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pizza_Place: Boni Vino

Hawg Ass wrote:

Regular Reader wrote:

Hawg Ass wrote:

Jim Rice is my Hall of Very Good guy, really good numbers, but not Hall of Fame.

And I loved him as a player.

Same here. And I still think that the Cobra is far more deserving than Rice. And Jones.

Rice got in because of his MVP, he was a good run producer, but I just don't see his other numbers as great.

He was the last 400-total-base guy before the steroid era.

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badrogue17

Post subject: Re: 2021 HOF Ballot

Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2020 3:53 pm

Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2010 4:29 pm
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pizza_Place: Lou Malnatis

rogers park bryan wrote:

badrogue17 wrote:

Andruw Jones is not a HoF'er but with today's watered down criteria, why not ? Put them all in.

What is your criteria that Jones doesn't meet?

Just personal preference / nebulous and more along line with what Reader said. Would I pay to see him play ? When I did watch him play baseball did I think to myself " Am I watching a HoF'er ? He doesnt pass that for me. Then you open it up to if we let Jones in, Dave Parker should be in who I think was a better player and someone who did pass the snort test as to am I watching a HoF'er. Then Fred Lynn and the always mentioned Dwight Evans have to get consideration.

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rogers park bryan

Post subject: Re: 2021 HOF Ballot

Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2020 4:05 pm

Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2008 12:16 pm
Posts: 81627

Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:

rogers park bryan wrote:

Crick Ramp wrote:

Andruw Jones is another interesting case.

What’s the record for most Good Gloves and not in the Hall?

Jones won 10. All consecutive. His slash line is bad .254/.337/.486.

His career war is below average for a HOf outfielder but his Peak WAR is above average for HOFers.

What would the respective careers of Jones and Todd Helton look like if Jones played in Coors for his first 12 years and Helton played in Turner Field, which was a pitchers park?

Jones is a no doubter. Best defensive OF by far of his era and 400 Homers, 60+ WAR. If Ozzie Smith is in, Jones has to be.

No way. That's like putting Jim Edmonds in the Hall of Fame. And neither one of them was as good as Fred Lynn who shouldn't get in either.

I've been swayed by arguments that Jones is the best CF ever, way better than Edmonds and even Mays.

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Crick Ramp

Post subject: Re: 2021 HOF Ballot

Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2020 4:05 pm

Joined: Sat May 25, 2019 4:26 pm
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I know using those currently in the Hall, or those who have been snubbed, as a means of evaluating whether someone should be in or not is somewhat inevitable. But at the same time, it is counter productive. Standards have changed, voting methodologies have changed.

Not to mention the inclusion of Baines fucks it all up. As does the massive double standard of the PED era.

And the “would I pay to see a guy” is flawed as a metric. Waaaay to subjective.

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man of few opinions

Post subject: Re: 2021 HOF Ballot

Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2020 4:07 pm

Joined: Thu Jan 17, 2008 6:42 pm
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Crick Ramp wrote:

I just hate making the argument that “if x player is in, then y player should be in.”

If Bill Mazeroski is in, ALL of these guys should be in.

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312player

Post subject: Re: 2021 HOF Ballot

Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2020 4:09 pm

Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2011 10:15 am
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pizza_Place: nick n vito's

rogers park bryan wrote:

badrogue17 wrote:

Andruw Jones is not a HoF'er but with today's watered down criteria, why not ? Put them all in.

What is your criteria that Jones doesn't meet?

Who'd ya take?

Tori Hunter or Jones.

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312player

Post subject: Re: 2021 HOF Ballot

Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2020 4:11 pm

Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2011 10:15 am
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man of few opinions wrote:

Crick Ramp wrote:

I just hate making the argument that “if x player is in, then y player should be in.”

If Bill Mazeroski is in, ALL of these guys should be in.[/quote

Yup.. Rizzuto in? Selig in..fuck it, who cares at tbis point.

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312player

Post subject: Re: 2021 HOF Ballot

Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2020 4:12 pm

Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2011 10:15 am
Posts: 27591
pizza_Place: nick n vito's

rogers park bryan wrote:

Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:

rogers park bryan wrote:

Crick Ramp wrote:

Jones is a no doubter. Best defensive OF by far of his era and 400 Homers, 60+ WAR. If Ozzie Smith is in, Jones has to be.

No way. That's like putting Jim Edmonds in the Hall of Fame. And neither one of them was as good as Fred Lynn who shouldn't get in either.

I've been swayed by arguments that Jones is the best CF ever, way better than Edmonds and even Mays.

Better than Mays :lol:

Get your head examined.

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The Original Kid Cairo wrote:

Laurence Holmes is a fucking weirdo, a nerd in denial, and a wannabe. Not a very good radio host either.

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Crick Ramp

Post subject: Re: 2021 HOF Ballot

Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2020 4:19 pm

Joined: Sat May 25, 2019 4:26 pm
Posts: 2211
pizza_Place: DATYYy

312player wrote:

man of few opinions wrote:

Crick Ramp wrote:

I just hate making the argument that “if x player is in, then y player should be in.”

If Bill Mazeroski is in, ALL of these guys should be in.[/quote

Yup.. Rizzuto in? Selig in..fuck it, who cares at tbis point.

Selig is the biggest travesty.

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312player

Post subject: Re: 2021 HOF Ballot

Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2020 4:22 pm

Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2011 10:15 am
Posts: 27591
pizza_Place: nick n vito's

Crick Ramp wrote:

312player wrote:

man of few opinions wrote:

Crick Ramp wrote:

I just hate making the argument that “if x player is in, then y player should be in.”

If Bill Mazeroski is in, ALL of these guys should be in.[/quote

Yup.. Rizzuto in? Selig in..fuck it, who cares at tbis point.

Selig is the biggest travesty.

No doubt

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The Original Kid Cairo wrote:

Laurence Holmes is a fucking weirdo, a nerd in denial, and a wannabe. Not a very good radio host either.

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man of few opinions

Post subject: Re: 2021 HOF Ballot

Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2020 4:24 pm

Joined: Thu Jan 17, 2008 6:42 pm
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Location: Land of Lincoln
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312player wrote:

man of few opinions wrote:

Crick Ramp wrote:

I just hate making the argument that “if x player is in, then y player should be in.”

If Bill Mazeroski is in, ALL of these guys should be in.

Yup.. Rizzuto in? Selig in..fuck it, who cares at tbis point.

mazeroskis numbers makes rizzuto look like mike trout.

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rogers park bryan

Post subject: Re: 2021 HOF Ballot

Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2020 4:50 pm

Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2008 12:16 pm
Posts: 81627

312player wrote:

rogers park bryan wrote:

Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:

rogers park bryan wrote:

Crick Ramp wrote:

Jones is a no doubter. Best defensive OF by far of his era and 400 Homers, 60+ WAR. If Ozzie Smith is in, Jones has to be.

No way. That's like putting Jim Edmonds in the Hall of Fame. And neither one of them was as good as Fred Lynn who shouldn't get in either.

I've been swayed by arguments that Jones is the best CF ever, way better than Edmonds and even Mays.

Better than Mays :lol:

Get your head examined.

Defensively

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Joe Orr Road Rod

Post subject: Re: 2021 HOF Ballot

Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2020 5:04 pm

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man of few opinions wrote:

312player wrote:

man of few opinions wrote:

Crick Ramp wrote:

I just hate making the argument that “if x player is in, then y player should be in.”

If Bill Mazeroski is in, ALL of these guys should be in.

Yup.. Rizzuto in? Selig in..fuck it, who cares at tbis point.

mazeroskis numbers makes rizzuto look like mike trout.

Maz is probably the greatest defensive second baseman ever. His comp would be Ozzie Smith. And he hit the second most famous homer ever. At least at the time.

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312player

Post subject: Re: 2021 HOF Ballot

Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2020 5:26 pm

Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2011 10:15 am
Posts: 27591
pizza_Place: nick n vito's

rogers park bryan wrote:

312player wrote:

rogers park bryan wrote:

Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:

rogers park bryan wrote:

Crick Ramp wrote:

Jones is a no doubter. Best defensive OF by far of his era and 400 Homers, 60+ WAR. If Ozzie Smith is in, Jones has to be.

No way. That's like putting Jim Edmonds in the Hall of Fame. And neither one of them was as good as Fred Lynn who shouldn't get in either.

I've been swayed by arguments that Jones is the best CF ever, way better than Edmonds and even Mays.

Better than Mays :lol:

Get your head examined.

Defensively

It's still absurd, Hunter or Jones?

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The Original Kid Cairo wrote:

Laurence Holmes is a fucking weirdo, a nerd in denial, and a wannabe. Not a very good radio host either.

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312player

Post subject: Re: 2021 HOF Ballot

Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2020 5:27 pm

Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2011 10:15 am
Posts: 27591
pizza_Place: nick n vito's

Alomar is the best glove at 2nd I've ever sern.

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The Original Kid Cairo wrote:

Laurence Holmes is a fucking weirdo, a nerd in denial, and a wannabe. Not a very good radio host either.

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Crick Ramp

Post subject: Re: 2021 HOF Ballot

Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2020 5:27 pm

Joined: Sat May 25, 2019 4:26 pm
Posts: 2211
pizza_Place: DATYYy

Jones over hunter

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Joe Orr Road Rod

Post subject: Re: 2021 HOF Ballot

Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2020 5:31 pm

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Crick Ramp wrote:

Jones over hunter

If there's an argument that a guy is or isn't better than Torii Hunter, that guy isn't a Hall of Famer. These are nice players. But nobody ever bought a ticket specifically to see either one do anything on a baseball field.

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WaitingforRuffcorn

Post subject: Re: 2021 HOF Ballot

Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2020 5:33 pm

Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2015 2:39 pm
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I think that Andruw Jones most memorable baseball moment is when Bobbie Cox pulled him from a game against the Cubs for not running to catch a pop-up.

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badrogue17

Post subject: Re: 2021 HOF Ballot

Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2020 5:36 pm

Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2010 4:29 pm
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WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:

I think that Andruw Jones most memorable baseball moment is when Bobbie Cox pulled him from a game against the Cubs for not running to catch a pop-up.

It’s his culture . Can’t be helped , must be excused .

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WaitingforRuffcorn

Post subject: Re: 2021 HOF Ballot

Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2020 5:37 pm

Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2015 2:39 pm
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badrogue17 wrote:

WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:

I think that Andruw Jones most memorable baseball moment is when Bobbie Cox pulled him from a game against the Cubs for not running to catch a pop-up.

It’s his culture . Can’t be helped , must be excused .

Punctuality and hard work are just whiteness.

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Why are only 14 percent of black CPS 11th-graders proficient in English?

The Missing Link wrote:

For instance they were never taught that Columbus was a slave owner.

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Nardi

Post subject: Re: 2021 HOF Ballot

Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2020 5:44 pm

Joined: Sat Mar 24, 2018 9:19 pm
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312player wrote:

rogers park bryan wrote:

Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:

rogers park bryan wrote:

Crick Ramp wrote:

Jones is a no doubter. Best defensive OF by far of his era and 400 Homers, 60+ WAR. If Ozzie Smith is in, Jones has to be.

No way. That's like putting Jim Edmonds in the Hall of Fame. And neither one of them was as good as Fred Lynn who shouldn't get in either.

I've been swayed by arguments that Jones is the best CF ever, way better than Edmonds and even Mays.

Better than Mays :lol:

Get your head examined.

Hard to know. There's only one great catch on the internet. People say he's the greatest but I can't find any HRs being taken away. I suppose he probably did, but where are they?

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312player

Post subject: Re: 2021 HOF Ballot

Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2020 5:45 pm

Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2011 10:15 am
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Crick Ramp wrote:

Jones over hunter

I'd take Hunter..and I wouldn't out Tori in. I'd remove 30% of the guys currently in.

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Regular Reader

Post subject: Re: 2021 HOF Ballot

Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2020 5:58 pm

Joined: Sun Nov 26, 2006 8:10 pm
Posts: 38609
Location: "Across 110th Street"

312player wrote:

Crick Ramp wrote:

Jones over hunter

I'd take Hunter..and I wouldn't put Tori in. I'd remove 30% of the guys currently in.

Agreed.

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badrogue17

Post subject: Re: 2021 HOF Ballot

Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2020 6:02 pm

Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2010 4:29 pm
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pizza_Place: Lou Malnatis

Regular Reader wrote:

312player wrote:

Crick Ramp wrote:

Jones over hunter

I'd take Hunter..and I wouldn't put Tori in. I'd remove 30% of the guys currently in.

Agreed.

If it comes down to the anecdotal baseball minds eye " snapshots" , seems like Hunter sure was on the radar a lot more than Jones for sure.

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Regular Reader

Post subject: Re: 2021 HOF Ballot

Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2020 6:12 pm

Joined: Sun Nov 26, 2006 8:10 pm
Posts: 38609
Location: "Across 110th Street"

badrogue17 wrote:

Regular Reader wrote:

312player wrote:

Crick Ramp wrote:

Jones over hunter

I'd take Hunter..and I wouldn't put Tori in. I'd remove 30% of the guys currently in.

Agreed.

If it comes down to the anecdotal baseball minds eye " snapshots" , seems like Hunter sure was on the radar a lot more than Jones for sure.

In fairness, that in large part was because he was killing the home town team.

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