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Who is the better manager?
Dusty Baker 29%  29%  [ 5 ]
Joe Maddon 71%  71%  [ 12 ]
Total votes : 17
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 8:40 pm 
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RFDC wrote:
Hank Scorpio wrote:
RFDC wrote:
I cannot believe that this is even being discussed.

Joe has had some awful moments, but on his worst day he is better than Dusty.

Maddon won a world series, case closed.


The Cubs won a World Series despite Maddon attempting to fuck it all up.

Matters not. He was still the manager on a team that won the WS.


Was Ned Yost a better manager than Maddon during the regular season last year?

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 8:42 pm 
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Terry's Peeps wrote:
RFDC wrote:
Hank Scorpio wrote:
RFDC wrote:
I cannot believe that this is even being discussed.

Joe has had some awful moments, but on his worst day he is better than Dusty.

Maddon won a world series, case closed.


The Cubs won a World Series despite Maddon attempting to fuck it all up.

Matters not. He was still the manager on a team that won the WS.


Was Ned Yost a better manager than Maddon during the regular season last year?

No idea. But I do know that Yost is a better manager than Dusty.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 8:46 pm 
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:lol:

Come on dude.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 8:47 pm 
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RFDC wrote:
I cannot believe that this is even being discussed.

Joe has had some awful moments, but on his worst day he is better than Dusty.

Maddon won a world series, case closed.

Is Kenny a better GM than Billy Beane?

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 8:48 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
RFDC wrote:
I cannot believe that this is even being discussed.

Joe has had some awful moments, but on his worst day he is better than Dusty.

Maddon won a world series, case closed.

Is Kenny a better GM than Billy Beane?




Yeah

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 8:49 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
RFDC wrote:
I cannot believe that this is even being discussed.

Joe has had some awful moments, but on his worst day he is better than Dusty.

Maddon won a world series, case closed.

Is Kenny a better GM than Billy Beane?

I dont think it is the same with GMs, the playing field is not as level for him.

But from the perspective of WS wins then by all means Kenny is a better GM.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 5:38 am 
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RFDC wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
RFDC wrote:
I cannot believe that this is even being discussed.

Joe has had some awful moments, but on his worst day he is better than Dusty.

Maddon won a world series, case closed.

Is Kenny a better GM than Billy Beane?

I dont think it is the same with GMs, the playing field is not as level for him.

But from the perspective of WS wins then by all means Kenny is a better GM.

I'll take it!

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 7:11 am 
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RFDC wrote:
I dont think it is the same with GMs, the playing field is not as level for him.


The playing field isn't level for managers. Give me Bryant as MVP and Rizzo in his career year along with 4 starters in the top 20 in ERA and I'll manage the team, sleep in the dugout, and take a good run at the division title.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 7:20 am 
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I think the Manager's effect is either neutral or negative. A bad manager or stupid one can certainly fuck things up. But being a "good" one is pretty much just staying out of the way.

Dusty has a habit of fucking things up, especially in big moments.

Joe looks to be going down the same road.

Dusty could have easily won the 02 World Series. He did fuck it up, but if the bullpen can cover 3 innings he wins.

Joe's overall views though are much better (in line with mine) than Dusty's though, so Ill still take Joe.

I also like both guys.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 8:13 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
RFDC wrote:
I dont think it is the same with GMs, the playing field is not as level for him.


The playing field isn't level for managers. Give me Bryant as MVP and Rizzo in his career year along with 4 starters in the top 20 in ERA and I'll manage the team, sleep in the dugout, and take a good run at the division title.


True it isnt completely level for managers. But managers have a more level playing field than GMs. The amount of money allotted to them by owners impact things greatly. Guys like Beane are not playing on the same field as Kenny, etc

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 8:54 am 
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RFDC wrote:
Hank Scorpio wrote:
RFDC wrote:
I cannot believe that this is even being discussed.

Joe has had some awful moments, but on his worst day he is better than Dusty.

Maddon won a world series, case closed.
The Cubs won a World Series despite Maddon attempting to fuck it all up.

Matters not. He was still the manager on a team that won the WS.
So you must believe that Ozzie Guillen, John Farrell, Jack McKeon, and Bob Brenly are all better managers than Dusty Baker.

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First off, the [2016 Cubs World Series] title was never a huge deal to me.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 8:55 am 
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Frank Coztansa wrote:
RFDC wrote:
Hank Scorpio wrote:
RFDC wrote:
I cannot believe that this is even being discussed.

Joe has had some awful moments, but on his worst day he is better than Dusty.

Maddon won a world series, case closed.
The Cubs won a World Series despite Maddon attempting to fuck it all up.

Matters not. He was still the manager on a team that won the WS.
So you must believe that Ozzie Guillen, John Farrell, Jack McKeon, and Bob Brenly are all better managers than Dusty Baker.


Correct

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 8:56 am 
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Insane thought.

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First off, the [2016 Cubs World Series] title was never a huge deal to me.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 8:57 am 
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Frank Coztansa wrote:
Insane thought.

Is it really? What has dusty done to be considered better than any of them?

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 9:18 am 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
I think the Manager's effect is either neutral or negative. A bad manager or stupid one can certainly fuck things up. But being a "good" one is pretty much just staying out of the way.

Dusty has a habit of fucking things up, especially in big moments.

Joe looks to be going down the same road.

Dusty could have easily won the 02 World Series. He did fuck it up, but if the bullpen can cover 3 innings he wins.

Joe's overall views though are much better (in line with mine) than Dusty's though, so Ill still take Joe.

I also like both guys.


Dusty might of won in 03 if he hadn't insisted on Dave Veres pitching or deployed a starter in the pen. McKeon managed circles around him in that series.

Dusty had his guys, like every manager does. The problem was his guys sucked. What about Nefi? What about Holy.. You can't forget about them. Jeez..


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 10:48 am 
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I've said this other places, but I'll never forget Veres literally limping in from the bullpen against the Marlins. You knew you were done. And Mark Guthrie, Remlinger. Oy.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 10:52 am 
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playoffs are largely luck in baseball. But there is something to be said for having low blood pressure in high pressure situations versus not, and I think you can tell those managers apart.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 11:58 am 
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RFDC wrote:
Frank Coztansa wrote:
Insane thought.

Is it really? What has dusty done to be considered better than any of them?
There is something to be said for longevity, and Farrell is the only guy who might be able to match Dusty. McKeon managed a lot of shitty teams back in the day.

He has a career win% of .531 over 22 seasons, and thats including a .497 stint on the Northside.

He has managed 4 different MLB teams, and taken all of them to the playoffs. 7 division Championships. A pennant, 9 seasons of 90+ wins (probably 10 as the Nats are likely to win at least 90 this year). He is one victory behind Bruce Bochy for most wins by an active manager, and if he manages two more seasons, he will probably crack the top ten of all time Manager wins with 2000+.

That is a lot of skins on the wall. Way more than anyone I listed. I don't think one World Series makes any of those guys a better career manager.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 12:03 pm 
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So you got one season and you get to pick any of those guys to be the manager of your team and you are picking Dusty?

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 12:04 pm 
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RFDC wrote:
So you got one season and you get to pick any of those guys to be the manager of your team and you are picking Dusty?



I'll pick the cheapest guy and use the savings on hookers and blow.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 12:06 pm 
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RFDC wrote:
So you got one season and you get to pick any of those guys to be the manager of your team and you are picking Dusty?
That is not what you said. You inferred that a guy who won a World Series as a manager was automatically better than Dusty.

I'm trying to point out what a terrible thought that is.

If I have one season right now I am going with the roster of the Dodgers, Astros, or Nationals and I couldnt care less who was filling out the lineup card every day. Any coach in baseball that is not named Robin Ventura would be fine.

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First off, the [2016 Cubs World Series] title was never a huge deal to me.


Last edited by Frank Coztansa on Thu Aug 10, 2017 12:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 12:07 pm 
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Brenly is simliar to Maddon. DBacks won despite him.


Put in Kim again you moron

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 12:09 pm 
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Frank Coztansa wrote:
RFDC wrote:
So you got one season and you get to pick any of those guys to be the manager of your team and you are picking Dusty?
That is not what you said. You inferred that a guy who won a World Series as a manager was automatically better than Dusty.

I'm trying to point out what a terrible thought that is.

I get completely what you are saying.

So how about an answer to the question? Would Dusty be your guy if you had the choice of all those guys to manage your team?

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 12:11 pm 
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Given that list, I'm going Ozzie, Dusty, Maddon, Farrell, McKeon, Brenly.


RPB, I think its Brenly <<<<<<<<<<< Maddon < Dusty

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Last edited by Frank Coztansa on Thu Aug 10, 2017 12:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 12:14 pm 
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Frank Coztansa wrote:
Given that list, I'm going Ozzie, Dusty, Maddon, Farrell, McKeon, Brenly.


RPB, I think its Brenly >>>>>>> Maddon > Dusty

So you would go with Ozzie over Dusty, but it is a terrible thought for me to say that Ozzie is a better manager than Dusty?

That makes no sense.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 12:15 pm 
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Oh, it makes sense.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 12:24 pm 
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This is typical Cub fandom. Dusty was the have to have manager until he sucked and he was the worst. Same with Pinella. Now it will be Maddon's turn.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 12:26 pm 
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pittmike wrote:
This is typical Cub fandom. Dusty was the have to have manager until he sucked and he was the worst. Same with Pinella. Now it will be Maddon's turn.


Typical pittmike bullshit.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 12:34 pm 
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RFDC wrote:
pittmike wrote:
This is typical Cub fandom. Dusty was the have to have manager until he sucked and he was the worst. Same with Pinella. Now it will be Maddon's turn.


Typical pittmike bullshit.

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Fans celebrating when they win and unhappy when they lose. Typical Cub Fans! :roll:

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 12:39 pm 
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Frank Coztansa wrote:
Given that list, I'm going Ozzie, Dusty, Maddon, Farrell, McKeon, Brenly.


RPB, I think its Brenly <<<<<<<<<<< Maddon < Dusty

The only guy on that list who had a significant positive impact on his World Series team (or playoff teams) is McKeon for his use of bullpen and Beckett


The others were along for the ride at best or the team won despite them at worst

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