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 Post subject: Bill James/Brian Kenny
PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2019 12:36 pm 
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Last edited by rogers park bryan on Mon Jan 28, 2019 12:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Bill James
PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2019 12:39 pm 
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He's definitely substantially to blame but I don't think it was intentional on his part. He definitely understands the nuances of the game.

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 Post subject: Re: Bill James
PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2019 12:40 pm 
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rogers park bryan wrote:


@keithlaw :lol: :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Bill James
PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2019 12:41 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
He's definitely substantially to blame but I don't think it was intentional on his part. He definitely understands the nuances of the game.

Read the comments, he gets in an interesting discussion with Jeff Frye




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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2019 12:49 pm 
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For 2019, im going with....

Scherzer
Sale
Buehler
Bauer
Cole


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2019 12:52 pm 
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Frye has been reincarnated as Nick Madrigal but a lot of idiots prefer guys who strikeout 149 times and get on base at a .281 clip.

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 Post subject: Re: Bill James
PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2019 12:56 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
He's definitely substantially to blame but I don't think it was intentional on his part. He definitely understands the nuances of the game.


How can he not have a very big finger pointed at him. He dropped a weapon in a room full of children and then is surprised someone got hurt.

The Len Kaspers of the world get to call themselves a sabermatrician with no particular competency in math or statistics.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2019 12:56 pm 
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Nothing wrong with BA or those other traditional stats. They measure stuff just fine. One only has to understand how they are calculated to know the limitations of each. And baseball should be embarrassed at all the strikeouts.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2019 12:59 pm 
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denisdman wrote:
And baseball should be embarrassed at all the strikeouts.



I wouldn't say "embarrassed" is the right word, but there is a problem when the methods used to win are making the game less entertaining to watch. The entire point of the game is to be entertaining.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2019 1:03 pm 
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Sabermetrics is a gold mine for Joe Maddon. His moves are predetermined, never considered wrong by him, or need to be explained to the unsophisticated.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2019 1:06 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
denisdman wrote:
And baseball should be embarrassed at all the strikeouts.



I wouldn't say "embarrassed" is the right word, but there is a problem when the methods used to win are making the game less entertaining to watch. The entire point of the game is to be entertaining.

Yea embarrassing is the wrong word. It would be like saying the NFL should be embarrassed by the low rushing totals. Its not ineptitude, it's a strategic decision.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2019 1:43 pm 
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To me it would be like the NFL discounting sacks allowed in a game because it was determined that every play should be a long pass play requiring the QB to take seven step drops. No more rushes, screens or quick drop back passes. It’s a “home run” throw or bust.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2019 1:49 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
denisdman wrote:
And baseball should be embarrassed at all the strikeouts.



I wouldn't say "embarrassed" is the right word, but there is a problem when the methods used to win are making the game less entertaining to watch. The entire point of the game is to be entertaining.

Is the entire point to be entertaining? So if the Sox win the WS but are not "entertaining" then they have failed?

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2019 1:50 pm 
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denisdman wrote:
To me it would be like the NFL discounting sacks allowed in a game because it was determined that every play should be a long pass play requiring the QB to take seven step drops. No more rushes, screens or quick drop back passes. It’s a “home run” throw or bust.


:lol: Right. You Mr. NFL Coach will have only 15 plays and all of them will be bombs. You will however complete 50% of them and win 28-24.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2019 1:52 pm 
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denisdman wrote:
To me it would be like the NFL discounting sacks allowed in a game because it was determined that every play should be a long pass play requiring the QB to take seven step drops. No more rushes, screens or quick drop back passes. It’s a “home run” throw or bust.

But there is no rule change like that in baseball. It's been determined that (homeruns and strikeouts vs making contact and less homeruns) is the best strategy to win.

It might be entertaining to see runs manufactured but that was never the best way to score runs.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2019 1:52 pm 
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RFDC wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
denisdman wrote:
And baseball should be embarrassed at all the strikeouts.



I wouldn't say "embarrassed" is the right word, but there is a problem when the methods used to win are making the game less entertaining to watch. The entire point of the game is to be entertaining.

Is the entire point to be entertaining? So if the Sox win the WS but are not "entertaining" then they have failed?


For me it seems people seem to be okay with their own team regardless. I think the entertainment for MLB as a whole suffers. I don'y care to watch any other teams win in some ugly manner without a personal necessity.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2019 1:53 pm 
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RFDC wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
denisdman wrote:
And baseball should be embarrassed at all the strikeouts.



I wouldn't say "embarrassed" is the right word, but there is a problem when the methods used to win are making the game less entertaining to watch. The entire point of the game is to be entertaining.

Is the entire point to be entertaining? So if the Sox win the WS but are not "entertaining" then they have failed?


Obviously they were successful on a certain level. But if the game is being watched by less and less people I would say it's failing.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2019 1:54 pm 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
It might be entertaining to see runs manufactured but that was never the best way to score runs.


I think there have been times and places where it has been. But in the era of PEDs and small ballparks and shifts, you're clearly correct.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2019 3:31 pm 
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2019 3:37 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
It might be entertaining to see runs manufactured but that was never the best way to score runs.


I think there have been times and places where it has been. But in the era of PEDs and small ballparks and shifts, you're clearly correct.


The two most universally fascinating and timeless components of baseball are the distance a person can hit a ball and the speed at which a person can throw a ball.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2019 4:04 pm 
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good dolphin wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
It might be entertaining to see runs manufactured but that was never the best way to score runs.


I think there have been times and places where it has been. But in the era of PEDs and small ballparks and shifts, you're clearly correct.


The two most universally fascinating and timeless components of baseball are the distance a person can hit a ball and the speed at which a person can throw a ball.



Yes, but those things occur at an extraordinary level on an infrequent basis. I was there for Borchard's homer and I was not particularly entertained by the 9-8 loss.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2019 6:12 pm 
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rogers park bryan wrote:


For 2019, im going with....

Scherzer
Sale
Buehler
Bauer
Cole



No Degrom?

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2019 6:39 pm 
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denisdman wrote:
To me it would be like the NFL discounting sacks allowed in a game because it was determined that every play should be a long pass play requiring the QB to take seven step drops. No more rushes, screens or quick drop back passes. It’s a “home run” throw or bust.


That was the Mike Martz offense...we lived through that like 8 years ago...

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2019 6:40 pm 
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The high homerun/strikeout strategy is similar to the NBA eliminating the post game and letting everyone shoot 3s.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2019 7:57 pm 
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Joe Maddon doesn't do anything strategy-wize that Earl Weaver wasn't doing 50 years ago:

- heavy lineup manipulation
- emphasis on the three run homer
- preferring to have three catchers
- a quick hook compared to his peers for starting pitchers not named Jon Lester or Jim Palmer

Joe just does it with a patina of new age hipster from a hardscrabble background, while Weaver had no problem coming off as a loveable asshole.

Earl was the guy who started putting Steve Stone as the DH batting 6th so he could wait until the game unfolded to see who would take the first AB.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2019 8:10 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
denisdman wrote:
And baseball should be embarrassed at all the strikeouts.



I wouldn't say "embarrassed" is the right word, but there is a problem when the methods used to win are making the game less entertaining to watch. The entire point of the game is to be entertaining.


I agree that the point of the game as a whole is to be entertaining, but the point of a game, or a homestand, or a season, or a postseason is to win. Right now, whiffing a bunch of times isn't that punitive in the larger goal of winning. The players get paid to execute skills that win, because GMs and managers get rewarded for wins.

Its the people that man the helm on the larger state of the game that need to act to produce a more entertaining product, because I agree, the current methods of winning produce an incredibly boring product a lot of the time.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2019 8:27 pm 
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312player wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:


For 2019, im going with....

Scherzer
Sale
Buehler
Bauer
Cole



No Degrom?

Just guessing he gets hurt or has some regression (how could he not?)


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2019 10:05 pm 
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Bill James has been a net positive for the game, and anyone who is ranting raving anytime they hear another person cite to wins or RBI to attempt to prove a point has emotional problems that transcend baseball. I also think he's brought along a new generation of fans, although those fans seem to be more interested in what the general manager is doing than actually watching the games.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2019 10:21 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
RFDC wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
denisdman wrote:
And baseball should be embarrassed at all the strikeouts.



I wouldn't say "embarrassed" is the right word, but there is a problem when the methods used to win are making the game less entertaining to watch. The entire point of the game is to be entertaining.

Is the entire point to be entertaining? So if the Sox win the WS but are not "entertaining" then they have failed?


Obviously they were successful on a certain level. But if the game is being watched by less and less people I would say it's failing.


That could be a global goal, but I don't think you can expect anyone from the GM down to care about being entertaining. They are there to win, and their continued employment depends on it.

Also think you might be overestimating how much less enjoyable walks and strikeouts make it. Watching a guy dribble out to SS isn't much more entertaining than striking out, IMO. Plus if Javy Baez swings three feet above his head while striking out, it's actually kind of amusing to watch. Overall, I think the person who loves baseball is going to love it regardless of the number of walks or strikeouts, and the person who doesn't like baseball isn't going to be swayed into liking it because a team makes more contact.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2019 7:30 am 
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leashyourkids wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
RFDC wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
denisdman wrote:
And baseball should be embarrassed at all the strikeouts.



I wouldn't say "embarrassed" is the right word, but there is a problem when the methods used to win are making the game less entertaining to watch. The entire point of the game is to be entertaining.

Is the entire point to be entertaining? So if the Sox win the WS but are not "entertaining" then they have failed?


Obviously they were successful on a certain level. But if the game is being watched by less and less people I would say it's failing.


That could be a global goal, but I don't think you can expect anyone from the GM down to care about being entertaining. They are there to win, and their continued employment depends on it.

Also think you might be overestimating how much less enjoyable walks and strikeouts make it. Watching a guy dribble out to SS isn't much more entertaining than striking out, IMO. Plus if Javy Baez swings three feet above his head while striking out, it's actually kind of amusing to watch. Overall, I think the person who loves baseball is going to love it regardless of the number of walks or strikeouts, and the person who doesn't like baseball isn't going to be swayed into liking it because a team makes more contact.


I agree with first half of the bolded sentence. The second part I don't about. The biggest complaint one hears about baseball is that it's "slow", "long", or "boring". There's no doubt that the long counts that are resulting in strikeouts are a major factor in slowing down the game. MLB seems obsessed with shortening the games, but every change they make does nothing but lengthen them.

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