As I said, the standard for catchers is much different especially historically. Before Piazza, there was not much expectations of catchers doing much hitting wise. It was all defense. Fisk is a no brainer to me.

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Hawaii (fuck) You

For the recored, it is great to be talking baseball. God knows our two teams are dumpster fires, so this is a welcome reprieve.

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Hawaii (fuck) You

Really? Because among catchers Fisk is top 4 WAR of all time. He's #13 in dWAR. 2nd oWAR. He had the most games caught until Ivan Rodriguez passed him. He's 3rd in homers depiste having 2100+ career at bats in a cavernous ballpark. He's 4th in AS Game appearances. 3rd in hits. 12th in STOLTEN BASES

Among catchers, Fisk is without question one of the best to ever play the game and a surefire HOF'er.

Among everybody else in the game, his offensive numbers are good to pedestrian. I mean you want to argue that a guy with a .269avg and 376 homers doesn't belong in the Hall, I don't think MANY would take issue with it. But when it comes out that you're trying to kick Fisk out of Cooperstown, hoo boy you're going to be the Caller Bob of baseball chatter.

Breaking it down by position makes much more sense with Rolen.

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I was sorta being sarcastic because I knew that would rile up some Sox fans.

He definitely had a memorable career and having one of the most played highlights ever in the history of the game does not hurt him.

What is the lowest career BA to make the HOF?

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"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

I picked Fisk because I knew his HR and ops/avg could be picked upon. And historically, catcher is not a prime offensive position.

Buehrle's career avg is .143

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Interesting. I never would have guessed Killebrew to have such a low career avg; .256.
But his career OPS is .884

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Fisk is not even a question. He is a god damn legend.

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Hawaii (fuck) You

yeah I would not have guessed him either.

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"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

Once Mazeroski got in, virtually ANYONE can get in.

First, I'm not sure about the old time guys. But addressing guys within my lifetime, I won't say that he's the second best defender at third (I assume we all agree Robinson is the undisputed best) because there are guys like Aurelio Rodriguez, Lee Tannehill, and Clete Boyer who just couldn't hit enough to be in any Hall of Fame conversation or even hold down a steady starting job for long stretches.

A guy who I think is reasonably close to being a Hall of Famer and kind of similar to Rolen- though just not quite as good- is Gary Gaetti. Very underrated player. But you have to draw the line somewhere. To me Rolen and Gaetti are the two sides of the line.

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His mind is not for rent to any God or government.

Well, Mazeroski is sort of like Ozzie Smith but at second. And I think hitting the second most famous home run up until that time pushes him in.

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His mind is not for rent to any God or government.

Most famous HRs in history, chronologically;

Called Shot
Giants Win The Pennant
Mazeroski Game 7
Scotty Pods 2005

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I would be fine with that, but it isn't the paradigm that exists.

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His mind is not for rent to any God or government.

At this point I would rank them like this:

Gibson
Joe Carter
Thomson
Maz

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His mind is not for rent to any God or government.

That's one of the craziest Cub fan narratives of all. EVERY first baseman- even Dr. Strangeglove- digs balls out of the dirt. It's part of the job.

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His mind is not for rent to any God or government.

You keep exaggerating this crazy Cub narrative.

No one has said Grace was a HOFer. No one.

Denis is poking Darko on his Dunston hate

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"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

You shouldn't blow a dig out more than 4 times a year. It's why Grandal should never be put there under any circumstances. But he will be this year, so watch out.

Learn how to quote, JORDolphin

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"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

Oh I see. So what can we dismiss of Rolens defensive prowess because it's part of the job?

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"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

I fixed it. I didn't want anyone to think Denni$ said that stupid shit.

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His mind is not for rent to any God or government.

One position is more important than the other. First is often where aging sluggers that can no longer play important defensive positions are put if they still have life in their bats.

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His mind is not for rent to any God or government.

Oh. Yeah I could see the position where the majority of the plays being made is unimportant and a place where defense doesn't matter. Sounds like you're making a great case for Eloy at 1st.

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"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

Walk off Game 7 HR's have to be first so Maz then Carter then whomever out of Gibson, Fisk, Thompson , etc.

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Proud member of the white guy grievance committee

It aint the six minutes. Its what happens in those six minutes.

Schwarber's glass case home run
Schwarber's shot into the river
Sandberg's 2 against Suter
Javy's liner off Cueto
Montero's grand slam
Kerry Wood's game 7 homer

the rest

A towering line drive!

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I'd have no problem with Eloy at first. He'd probably be as good as the midget they plan to play there.

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His mind is not for rent to any God or government.

Ok. Wow. Well this has been fun. TTYL

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"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

Good idea. Talking about how rough 1st base is can take a lot out of you.

God is that a scary man pairing:

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Hawaii (fuck) You