I wouldn't be so sure about Clemens. Or Sosa.

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One has absolutely nothing to do with the other, what’s your point?

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There are only two examples of infinity: The universe and human stupidity and I'm not sure about the universe.

Are you saying you want the public to vote, or make the writers' ballots public?

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The latter

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There are only two examples of infinity: The universe and human stupidity and I'm not sure about the universe.

I stopped caring many years ago, so many undeserving guys on the HOF. It's a shame Bill Matlock ain't in, he's a much better hitter and baseball player than Rolan..give him the juice and he'd have 325 HRs too.

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Madlock and Rolen have almost the same era/park adjusted career OPS+ of 123-124. But Rolen was far better defensively, Madlock was not particularly good defensively once he left Chicago.

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"When people want their version of the truth, they go find it, no matter how baseless their beliefs." -- Ken Rosenthal

Matlock’s successful post career job as a TV lawyer kind of took the sting out of not being elected though

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Proud member of the white guy grievance committee

It aint the six minutes. Its what happens in those six minutes.

yeah, even if the offensive numbers are borderline, you can’t discount the guys defense. Only Brooks Robinson, and Schmidt have more gold gloves at third base, that has to count .

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Proud member of the white guy grievance committee

It aint the six minutes. Its what happens in those six minutes.

4 batting titles

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Rolen is a lot like Mark Grace to me. Really good player over the course of his career, but not a HOFer.

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"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

Come on. He's a lot better than that. Mark Grace is like a bunch of other first basemen who lacked power. I get that he's a Cub hero, but he's no better than Wally Joyner. Grace is nowhere near the Hall of Fame. Rolen is minimally a borderline Hall of Famer and he was better than at least a couple third basemen who are already in there.

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His mind is not for rent to any God or government.

I can't be upset about Rolen getting in or not getting in. He is almost the literal definition of the border for me. (As a Cub fan, I did not think that Santo deserved it as a player based on on-field play.)

I think Helton deserves to get in because I've heard several athletes who played for Denver teams in multiple sports explain that physical recovery between home and road trips was much more difficult playing in Denver, and that today's body monitoring equipment does a better job of informing decisions about recovery.

When Ichiro is on the ballot in two years, he should be unanimous, but there are going to be idiot writers who protest that he can't get in before Bonds and will send in a blank ballot. 9 voters sent in blank ballots this year.

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"When people want their version of the truth, they go find it, no matter how baseless their beliefs." -- Ken Rosenthal

Rolen 316 HRs. Grace 173

Rolen .281 BA Grace .303

Rolen 1287 RBIs Grace 1146

Rolen 2077 hits Grace 2445 hits

Both were really good defensively.

Rolen had more HRs. Grace had more hits.

They seem pretty comparable to me.

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"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

The writers lose me with the “first ballot” gatekeeping bullshit and the lack of unanimously voting in anybody but a closer of all people. I appreciate the guy that fucked up and left Jeter off his ballot by mistake though, no unanimous vote for that clown.

Now compare Rolen to other third baseman, RFDC.

Yesterday I thought like you and figured there was no way he should be in cooperstown. But he's only the 18th third baseman to ever make the Hall of fame. When you look at his numbers and his defensive ability, it's hard to say a top 20 player at his position should not be in the Hall of Fame.

If you want to just look at overall numbers it's going to be quite a while before we see any catchers, second baseman, short stops, or center fielders inducted.

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Yadier Molina will be first ballot

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Proud member of the white guy grievance committee

It aint the six minutes. Its what happens in those six minutes.

Maybe there just aren’t 20 HoF worthy third baseman. Cooperstown now Woketown with affirmative action selections for 3B.

It all started going downhill with Santo.

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"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

Grace had more hits in the 90's than Rolen had in his 16 year career.

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Nas: Blago, who has single handedly destroyed CFMB?

Blago: https://youtube.com/shorts/Lftdxd-YXt8?feature=share

"You can’t love your country only when you win." -President Biden

https://youtu.be/R6e4ruziZBI?si=1G4W1vbh0eGQuHfU

At the end of the day Harold Baines is in the HoF so why do I even care anymore

If it is quite awhile then so be it. Baseballs HOF should be difficult to get in, not like basketball where everyone gets in.

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"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

And that is ridiculous as well.

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"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

I didn't peg you as a Santo hater.

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Nas: Blago, who has single handedly destroyed CFMB?

Blago: https://youtube.com/shorts/Lftdxd-YXt8?feature=share

"You can’t love your country only when you win." -President Biden

https://youtu.be/R6e4ruziZBI?si=1G4W1vbh0eGQuHfU

H8 H8 H8

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There are only two examples of infinity: The universe and human stupidity and I'm not sure about the universe.

Learned from you!

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"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

I’m reporting you

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There are only two examples of infinity: The universe and human stupidity and I'm not sure about the universe.

G8 H8 M8! I R8 8 of 8!

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"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

They're not. One guy played a much tougher position. And the power difference is significant.

Let's try it this way. How many third basemen can you think of that you'd put in a head of Rolen? Because I can name many first basemen that would go in before Grace.

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His mind is not for rent to any God or government.

Neither are HoF material.

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Hawaii (fuck) You

The line of thinking that says there is no one else you would put in over a player is really strange.

As if that makes it ok to take a someone not really worthy of the HOF.

I don't really have anyone that I would put in over Rolen off the top of my head. But that does not make him HOF material. And neither is Grace. I am in no way saying Grace needs to be in the HOF.

It is just like Buerhle. Really good pitcher. I would love to have him going to the mound for my team. But he is not a HOFer.

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"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."