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Does the MLB manager make a difference?
Yes, a small difference 46%  46%  [ 11 ]
Yes, a big difference 38%  38%  [ 9 ]
No difference at all 4%  4%  [ 1 ]
A really bad or really good manager only makes a difference 13%  13%  [ 3 ]
Total votes : 24
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 13, 2015 10:12 pm 
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jimmypasta wrote:
How can anyone argue differently after Maddon played his bullpen like a stradivarius in this series!


I don't think it hurts that they all are suddenly tough to hit. I've had Cub fans sitting next to me screaming as Rosscup blew games down the stretch.

It can't be that the manager gets the credit when things go good and the player gets the blame when they go bad. And you'd only do that with a guy you had already deemed good.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 13, 2015 10:18 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
jimmypasta wrote:
How can anyone argue differently after Maddon played his bullpen like a stradivarius in this series!


I don't think it hurts that they all are suddenly tough to hit. I've had Cub fans sitting next to me screaming as Rosscup blew games down the stretch.

It can't be that the manager gets the credit when things go good and the player gets the blame when they go bad. And you'd only do that with a guy you had already deemed good.

Why are they suddenly tough to hit? They're the same guys they were earlier aren't they?

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 13, 2015 10:19 pm 
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Did they suddenly learn how to pitch?
Isn't arrietta the same guy he was a few seasons ago i.e. not an ace?

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 13, 2015 10:20 pm 
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Darkside wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
jimmypasta wrote:
How can anyone argue differently after Maddon played his bullpen like a stradivarius in this series!


I don't think it hurts that they all are suddenly tough to hit. I've had Cub fans sitting next to me screaming as Rosscup blew games down the stretch.

It can't be that the manager gets the credit when things go good and the player gets the blame when they go bad. And you'd only do that with a guy you had already deemed good.

Why are they suddenly tough to hit? They're the same guys they were earlier aren't they?


You think Maddon "coached" them into getting sharp now? That's kind of a tough position to take unless you're going to blame him when they go through a month with a 7.00 ERA.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 13, 2015 10:23 pm 
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Darkside wrote:
Did they suddenly learn how to pitch?
Isn't arrietta the same guy he was a few seasons ago i.e. not an ace?


Are you crediting Maddon for Arrieta's command?

I think a pitching coach can make a difference. Bosio is a good one. But we can talk about specific mechanics and concrete changes he may have suggested.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 13, 2015 10:25 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
You think Maddon "coached" them into getting sharp now? That's kind of a tough position to take unless you're going to blame him when they go through a month with a 7.00 ERA.

I didn't credit maddon. I asked if they were the same guys they were earlier in the season. Is arrietta not the same man who had like a career 5+Era before he came to the cubs?
Could 8th be that Maddon and his staff prepared their pitcher's with better Intel going into games. Is it possible that a coach or manager might notice a player doing something wrong and correct a mechanical or mental error and improve them?

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 13, 2015 10:28 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Darkside wrote:
Did they suddenly learn how to pitch?
Isn't arrietta the same guy he was a few seasons ago i.e. not an ace?


Are you crediting Maddon for Arrieta's command?

I think a pitching coach can make a difference. Bosio is a good one. But we can talk about specific mechanics and concrete changes he may have suggested.

So you think then that coaches can have a significant effect on a teams success?
What made them suddenly tough to hit? Did bosio do something different in the last 30 days that he didn't do in the previous 2 seasons?

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 13, 2015 10:33 pm 
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Darkside wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Darkside wrote:
Did they suddenly learn how to pitch?
Isn't arrietta the same guy he was a few seasons ago i.e. not an ace?


Are you crediting Maddon for Arrieta's command?

I think a pitching coach can make a difference. Bosio is a good one. But we can talk about specific mechanics and concrete changes he may have suggested.

So you think then that coaches can have a significant effect on a teams success?


A pitching coach for sure. How many reclamation projects did Duncan have success with? But again, he's making specific adjustments to a delivery. It's something we can discuss based on facts, rather than just, "Guy X is good because most writers say so."

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 13, 2015 11:59 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Scorehead wrote:
walkrman5 wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
I don't want you to say "a good manager handles his pitching staff good". I want you to explain what that means. Tell me a guy you think is a good manager and what specifically he does different than a bad one.


Stop with the Bernstein schtick!


No shit.


So neither of you have anything pertinent to add. You just want to bludgeon me with your unsupported opinions. At least Darkside is making an effort.


I have no interest in making the effort. If you know Baseball, you should know what makes a good or bad Manager.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2015 12:02 am 
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2015 5:22 am 
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Apologist wrote:
Image


:lol:
That does seem to be how people differentiate a good manager from a bad manager.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2015 6:07 am 
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Scorehead wrote:
If you know Baseball, you should know what makes a good or bad Manager.


And yet, you can't tell us.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2015 6:10 am 
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Terry's Peeps wrote:
Apologist wrote:
Image


:lol:
That does seem to be how people differentiate a good manager from a bad manager.


Fans call a guy a "good" manager if they agree with his decisions. So it logically follows that the best manager is a drunken guy in the stands screaming that it's a bunt situation.

Seriously, I wonder how many guys here know that Bill Veeck actually let the fans manage some games with giant cards. That's how important that particular baseball genius thought it was.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2015 6:34 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Scorehead wrote:
If you know Baseball, you should know what makes a good or bad Manager.


And yet, you can't tell us.



I'll answer you in your own words when you were asked why you think the Cubs will not win because "something will happen". You stated..."nothing tangible".

So there is your answer. Now fuck off Bernstein wannabe!

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2015 6:38 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:

Seriously, I wonder how many guys here know that Bill Veeck actually let the fans manage some games with giant cards. That's how important that particular baseball genius thought it was.


he also let a midget have an at bat. he was a showman more than a baseball guy. he was like the michael bay of baseball.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2015 6:40 am 
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OK, manager doesnt matter.

makes this team FUCKING AWESOME

[url]blob:https%3A//vine.co/b4a6afae-5fa4-45ae-9c4f-d49da1965b81[/url]

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2015 6:41 am 
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http://www.brobible.com/sports/article/cubs-kyle-schwarber-hit-a-hr-over-wrigley-fields-scoreboard-its-probably-not-landing-til-the-nlcs-begins/

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2015 6:44 am 
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W_Z wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:

Seriously, I wonder how many guys here know that Bill Veeck actually let the fans manage some games with giant cards. That's how important that particular baseball genius thought it was.


he also let a midget have an at bat. he was a showman more than a baseball guy. he was like the michael bay of baseball.


He drew a walk, didn't he? 1.000 OBP percenatge. Maybe a good GM would have a team full of midgets.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2015 6:48 am 
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it would be small ball...


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2015 6:49 am 
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W_Z wrote:
it would be small ball...


BOOOO!!!!! :lol:

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2015 7:30 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Terry's Peeps wrote:
Apologist wrote:
Image


:lol:
That does seem to be how people differentiate a good manager from a bad manager.


Fans call a guy a "good" manager if they agree with his decisions. So it logically follows that the best manager is a drunken guy in the stands screaming that it's a bunt situation.

Seriously, I wonder how many guys here know that Bill Veeck actually let the fans manage some games with giant cards. That's how important that particular baseball genius thought it was.

The drunken guy in the stands doesn't call two safety bunts in an inning.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2015 7:47 am 
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Darkside wrote:
The drunken guy in the stands doesn't call two safety bunts in an inning.


Other than the fact that they worked, what makes you believe that those bunts are a good idea when all the numbers illustrate otherwise?

Anyway, I'd prefer not to use Joe Maddon as an illustration for purposes of this discussion as it seems many people are conflating my dislike of the Cubs with my indifference to who is managing a baseball team.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2015 7:50 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Darkside wrote:
The drunken guy in the stands doesn't call two safety bunts in an inning.


Other than the fact that they worked, what makes you believe that those bunts are a good idea when all the numbers illustrate otherwise?

That pretty much illustrated the point. The manager and his call against conventional wisdom worked.
Management mattered.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2015 7:58 am 
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Darkside wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Darkside wrote:
The drunken guy in the stands doesn't call two safety bunts in an inning.


Other than the fact that they worked, what makes you believe that those bunts are a good idea when all the numbers illustrate otherwise?

That pretty much illustrated the point. The manager and his call against conventional wisdom worked.
Management mattered.


Now you're using the word "matter" in a way that's going to start a semantic argument. I don't want to go down that road. I actually have to go to work today. Have a great day.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2015 8:28 am 
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Darkside wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Darkside wrote:
The drunken guy in the stands doesn't call two safety bunts in an inning.


Other than the fact that they worked, what makes you believe that those bunts are a good idea when all the numbers illustrate otherwise?

That pretty much illustrated the point. The manager and his call against conventional wisdom worked.
Management mattered.


If the player bunted the ball harder and led to a double-play, was it still a good managerial decision?

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2015 8:47 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
I don't want you to say "a good manager handles his pitching staff good". I want you to explain what that means. Tell me a guy you think is a good manager and what specifically he does different than a bad one.


Bad managers tell players what to do that fits their way of thinking. They don't explain why, they just demand results. These managers can be successful with veteran players who also bark orders and lead by production only. Example (Sammy Sosa, Zambrano). They become bad managers when they fail to adjust to their players and expect the players to adjust to them without explaning why or how. Example (Dusty Baker)

Good managers explain why, but expects the players to adjust to them instead of adjusting to the players. These type of managers lose the club house after the players lose faith in the managers single way of thinking. Example (Lou Pinella)

Great managers get the players to believe they are all involved in reaching one goal. To win the World Series. They get them to play as a team and not individuals. A great manager adjust to his players and puts them in the best position to succeed. Even if it means a demotion for some of them. Example (Castro, Wood, Richards, Cahill.) The players feel a greater sense of pride for the team when the team is successful because of their "sacrifices." Respect is earned and not expected on these type of teams. The team becomes a brotherhood of players and this all starts at the top from the President (Epstein) all the way down to the pitching coach (Bosio). Great manager Example (Joe Maddon)

Any manger can get lucky and win any given year with players that match his managing style, but only the great ones create something special.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2015 8:51 am 
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Darkside wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Terry's Peeps wrote:
Apologist wrote:
Image


:lol:
That does seem to be how people differentiate a good manager from a bad manager.


Fans call a guy a "good" manager if they agree with his decisions. So it logically follows that the best manager is a drunken guy in the stands screaming that it's a bunt situation.

Seriously, I wonder how many guys here know that Bill Veeck actually let the fans manage some games with giant cards. That's how important that particular baseball genius thought it was.

The drunken guy in the stands doesn't call two safety bunts in an inning.


or start La Stella and sit Soler

like a bad gambler, a certain group of fans only talks about the successful moves

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2015 8:52 am 
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Sitting Soler and Baez provided them with the fire they needed to become postseason stars. Same with Schwarber.

Maddon knows how to use 25 guys. And that is surprising since he is from the AL.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2015 8:53 am 
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IMU wrote:
Sitting Soler and Baez provided them with the fire they needed to become postseason stars. Same with Schwarber..


sure it did

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2015 8:54 am 
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Juiced wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
I don't want you to say "a good manager handles his pitching staff good". I want you to explain what that means. Tell me a guy you think is a good manager and what specifically he does different than a bad one.


Bad managers tell players what to do that fits their way of thinking. They don't explain why, they just demand results. These managers can be successful with veteran players who also bark orders and lead by production only. Example (Sammy Sosa, Zambrano). They become bad managers when they fail to adjust to their players and expect the players to adjust to them without explaning why or how. Example (Dusty Baker)

Good managers explain why, but expects the players to adjust to them instead of adjusting to the players. These type of managers lose the club house after the players lose faith in the managers single way of thinking. Example (Lou Pinella)

Great managers get the players to believe they are all involved in reaching one goal. To win the World Series. They get them to play as a team and not individuals. A great manager adjust to his players and puts them in the best position to succeed. Even if it means a demotion for some of them. Example (Castro, Wood, Richards, Cahill.) The players feel a greater sense of pride for the team when the team is successful because of their "sacrifices." Respect is earned and not expected on these type of teams. The team becomes a brotherhood of players and this all starts at the top from the President (Epstein) all the way down to the pitching coach (Bosio). Great manager Example (Joe Maddon)

Any manger can get lucky and win any given year with players that match his managing style, but only the great ones create something special.


I guess the Rays just didn't believe enough

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